The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[Luckers]

Brandon comments that there is something that begins in books 4-6 that went completely unnoticed by fans as far as he can tell, which is a big deal--bigger than the death of Asmodean. Though it first appeared in books 4-6 it has been mentioned in later books. Or rather it has 'continued' in later books. Here are his words on it.

 

1. Question: You had a quote that we all talked about just recently, that there is a small detail with this secret thing. There were two quotes we put together where you told somebody from Chicago where you say this detail first comes out between books 4-6. Is that verified?

 

1. Answer: It’s been going for a long time. Somewhere in four and six the first hints of it are mentioned.

 

2. Question: But that’s not the only time it’s ever mentioned?

 

2. Answer: It’s not the only time it’s ever mentioned. It is…hints about this hidden thing appear in pretty much…in several of the books. It first, somewhere in one of those three is the beginning of where it shows up. The first hint that you get. […] I mean, it’s a small thing that means something large, that sort of thing…and you guys are very good at finding things and I’m not going to say whether you hit it or not.

 

•   I asked a follow up question about the big clue in books 4-6, asking if the clue became more relevant due to events in the later books, and he said that it didn't, and that it's something we should have picked up on when it appeared. He also issued a caveat (that is basically common sense) that it is possible someone discussed this issue at some point on one of the boards and that he didn't see that, but that he has never seen it raised in his lurkings, and that this issue is more important than who killed you-know-who.

•   Brandon is concerned about the HCFF's digging and digging for the surprise in books 4-6 and ruining it for TOM. Also, he stated he never read anyone discussing it but it is possible someone has. Also, it is some puzzle that should have been looked at when it was first revealed. It's bigger than who killed Asmodean, according to Brandon. [Luckers Note: This seems to confirm that it will be revealed in ToM]

So. This rules out it being the fat man angreal. In fact it kinda puts the crimp on this being an object of any time. 'It's been going for a long time' seems to imply that this overlooked thing is an event, or an effect.

 

My first thought was the Dark One's influence, perhaps especially in the way it continues without any problems from the wardings, but thats too big, and is discussed often--I don't see how Brandon could miss it.

 

Could it be the Wise One's decision to fight in LoC?

 

Note: It is not Rand's saidin sickness. That began in tPoD. (This was suggested before, so best to get it out of the way).

 

Discuss!

 

[elec1cele]

A couple of things come to mind I am not sure which books they were first mentioned in.  And I haven't been around on the forums to know what has been discussed to death before.

 

• Vacuoles
   
  
• The 3rd question Rand asked to Eelfinn
  

 

The vacuoles may not fit being brought up over and over, but I think Rand's questions or at least the answer he got to the first 2 have been brought quite a lot in the books.  Especially if you include the questions Mat asked them.

[cleantoe]

What about the stasis boxes or whatever? They have been talked about occassionally, but not very often. Maybe someone keeps pulling new goodies out of them? Maybe Asmo got trapped in one?

[Ashaman DeRouge]

Nah, "death took him", not "Moridin put him in storage" :P

 

The third powerful Sa'Angreal?

How rand got out of the box...

Anything small pointed out during battle of carhein or dumai's wells...

[Luckers]

I still reckon the Nynaeve/Elayne 'need to help Rand' dream is viable. It ended up in the *angreal storage area in the Tower before leading to the Bowl of the Winds.

 

Right timeframe, has definately been mentioned in books part that period, and should have been noticed as significant at the time, yet was paid little attention.

 

Seems to fit to me.

[Ashaman DeRouge]

In regards to that Luckers:

 

13. Under the Dust

 

The Tower envoy, Tarna Feir, visits Nynaeve in her room. She has heard of the discoveries made by her and Elayne, and wants them to return to the Tower with her. They refuse.

 

In Tel’aran’rhiod Elayne and Nynaeve use need, trying to find something to tie the Salidar Aes Sedai to Rand. They find a cache of Angreal, Sa’angreal and Ter’angreal, somewhere in Ebou Dar. Among the Ter’angreal they find a large glass bowl, that is somehow able to affect the weather.

 

Perhaps the Ring of Tamyrlin? I have a theory its the third powerful sangreal... Thats the third post that has bought me to this point tonight also...Must stop seeing conspiracies...

[cleantoe]

Nah, "death took him", not "Moridin put him in storage" :P

 

Heh. Maybe there was another golem in there.

[Vulgir]

3rd question Rand asked most definatly, i dont see another Sa' angreal being of any importance, since Rand has already put the smack down on the ChodenKal.

 

The other item that i thought it might be was Demandred finding Elayne in TAR swearing to the Lion Throne, but that doesnt take place in book 4.

[Ashaman DeRouge]

I would lean against the 3rd question. Surely that dosn't qualify as it's been discussed to death, according to Brandon's quotes anyway.

 

Quite the noodle bender!

[Tel Janin]

Could the 'thing' be something as simple as linking (circles) beyond thirteen?

 

Just a thought...

[Red2111]

these are the only suggestions i could come up with off the top of my head; using issues first presented or worsned in books 4-6

 

- something to do with the "Snakes & Foxes"

- who Gaidin Cain(sp) was reborn as

- something to do with Valin Luca and his traveling circus

- what the DO told Demandred

- where/who Meesena is

- what Logan's greatness is

- who/what is Taim

- something to do with the 3 oaths

- the traveling people and aiel

- the song the traveling people are looking for

 

 

 

 

[elec1cele]

Asmodean taught Rand to channel is it possible that he purposefully taught him wrong somehow.  If so this could be the cause of his sickness.

[mossman87]

I doubt it's stasis boxes, because what would be the puzzle that we should have figured out about them back in 4 - 6?  There really is no puzzle unless you count "When will these be used in the story?"

 

I also doubt it's from an event as big as Dumai's Wells because I think BS would remember that was from LOC, but instead he was fuzzy on which book it was in.

[Mr Ares]

Perhaps the Ring of Tamyrlin? I have a theory its the third powerful sangreal... Thats the third post that has bought me to this point tonight also...Must stop seeing conspiracies...

The Ring of Tamyrlin was first mentioned in EotW, so too early.

 

I did have the thought that he might be referring to the AS at The Silver Swan inn in Caemlyn - mentioned a few times, not yet relevant to the plot, not really discussed, so it seems to fit in that regard, but the first mention of the Inn is in ACos. Unless perhaps there was a mention of AS in Caemlyn prior to that book that could refer to them, before they took up residence at the inn (they would have arrived some time during LoC, but are said to have arrived shortly after Rand left), then that one doesn't go any further. That's the best I've come up with so far, though.

 

- something to do with the "Snakes & Foxes"

- who Gaidin Cain(sp) was reborn as

- something to do with Valin Luca and his traveling circus

- what the DO told Demandred

- where/who Meesena is

- what Logan's greatness is

- who/what is Taim

- something to do with the 3 oaths

- the traveling people and aiel

- the song the traveling people are looking for

Most of them get brought up quite often, though. Less likely that Brandon wouldn't have seen it.

 

Edit: I know there is mention of the BA that left the Tower with Liandrin in Caemlyn in LoC during this period, so any reference to AS in Caemlyn is probably them, unless they are in some way linked to The Silver Swan, which doesn't seem likely. But we do see Moggy give out orders to those sisters during this period (even if the group itself existed in TDR), so perhaps it has something to do with those that are unaccounted for?

[Sentinel78]

Book 4 is when they first mention how quiet the Blight is, when Trolloc raids into the Borderlands are curtailed... ?  I've just assumed they've been forming whatever Shadowspawn army they're going to use at TG.  This seems too obvious for what BS is likely to have alluded to, and this must have been discussed elsewhere.

 

LTT's memories first start in Book 4 I think, definitely by Book 5.  These have been discussed to death. 

 

Rhuarc mentions in Book 4 that there is fighting in Shara, and that this is very unusual.  Demandred then announces in TGS that his rule is secure...  Shara's been discussed a lot, but has there been any discussion on why there is fighting in Shara?

 

The whole story took on a deeper arc in Book 4, we really don't have enough to go on here.

[Sentinel78]

Rhuarc mentions in Book 4 that there is fighting in Shara

 

Never mind that was Book 6

[mossman87]

Book 4 is when they first mention how quiet the Blight is, when Trolloc raids into the Borderlands are curtailed... ?  I've just assumed they've been forming whatever Shadowspawn army they're going to use at TG.  This seems too obvious for what BS is likely to have alluded to, and this must have been discussed elsewhere.

 

LTT's memories first start in Book 4 I think, definitely by Book 5.  These have been discussed to death. 

 

Rhuarc mentions in Book 4 that there is fighting in Shara, and that this is very unusual.  Demandred then announces in TGS that his rule is secure...  Shara's been discussed a lot, but has there been any discussion on why there is fighting in Shara?

 

The whole story took on a deeper arc in Book 4, we really don't have enough to go on here.

 

 

I'm hoping Demandred is in control of Shara and they'll be a surprise enemy at TG to flank the light forces, they'll be like the Corsairs of Umbar in LOTR that sailed and joined in the battle.  There's many parallels between LOTR and WOT so why not.  Hah maybe they'll fight the ghosts called from the Horn as well. :P

[demonspawn]

Why has no one really mentioned the Angreal and ter'angreal etc that was stashed in Rhuidean. It was packed off to the White Tower but... Did it get there?

 

It was first found in Book 4... Was transported throughout Book 5... I'm sure the last I remember hearing of it was Book 6.

 

I may just have missed hearing what happened to it  ???

[Sentinel78]

Why has no one really mentioned the Angreal and ter'angreal etc that was stashed in Rhuidean. It was packed off to the White Tower but... Did it get there?

 

It was first found in Book 4... Was transported throughout Book 5... I'm sure the last I remember hearing of it was Book 6.

 

I guess you're suggesting it could have been intercepted?  Moiraine and Lanfear 'died' and the ter'angreal to the aelfinn melted.  After that point, I can't remember for the life of me what happened to those wagons.  The Forsaken don't seem to know much about it, or have benefited from any mysterious angreal or ter'angreal showing up...  I mean, Graendal had to get her little angreal from somewhere, but nothing suggested it was from that particular stash.  And Moggy had separately identified the Domination Band in Tanchico right?

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

Why has no one really mentioned the Angreal and ter'angreal etc that was stashed in Rhuidean. It was packed off to the White Tower but... Did it get there?

 

It was first found in Book 4... Was transported throughout Book 5... I'm sure the last I remember hearing of it was Book 6.

 

I guess you're suggesting it could have been intercepted?   Moiraine and Lanfear 'died' and the ter'angreal to the aelfinn melted.  After that point, I can't remember for the life of me what happened to those wagons.   The Forsaken don't seem to know much about it, or have benefited from any mysterious angreal or ter'angreal showing up...  I mean, Graendal had to get her little angreal from somewhere, but nothing suggested it was from that particular stash.  And Moggy had separately identified the Domination Band in Tanchico right?

 

Graendal got that Angreal attuned to women from Sammael's belongings in Illian.

[demonspawn]

I just don't know what the heck DID happen to it... Surely regarding the timeframe of the last books it would have arrived at Tar Valon by now, and a large cache of Angreal and the likes would be a pretty important thing to consider.

 

So, if it has been intercepted... Who by?

If it has been hidden... Again, who by and why?

 

If one of the forsaken had taken it for themselves I would have thought it would have been put to use to strengthen their own bid to be Nae'Blis. But then, plenty of the remaining Forsaken had the means to be kept informed of this and it was by no means a well kept secret.

 

Or has it just been forgotten in the storyline?  :-\

[Gorlith]

I always assumed Rand stored those things. But since this is never confirmed, who knows? Maybe it got taken by someone, or maybe Rand sent it to TV or to the SAS at some point? But I think we would have heard about it. My guess is Rand has them stored, maybe in his university or one of the palaces, or maybe its still sitting in plane sight but covered in wards *shrugs*

[mossman87]

I seem to remember a quote from RJ that the Rhuidean stash is still in Cairhien, maybe someone knows what I'm talking about.

[Paedraig Gaidin]

Perhaps the Ring of Tamyrlin? I have a theory its the third powerful sangreal... Thats the third post that has bought me to this point tonight also...Must stop seeing conspiracies...

The Ring of Tamyrlin was first mentioned in EotW, so too early.

 

It was mentioned in EotW, but I feel like it was INTRODUCED in Book 4. Mat's Raven ring.

[Sentinel78]

BS says

It’s been going for a long time. Somewhere in four and six the first hints of it are mentioned.

 

This implies an ongoing event.  The DO's touch on the world is discussed all over the place.

 

We can't really prove anything, but the fighting in Shara is mentioned in Book 6 (chpt 18, by Rhuarc).. It's mentioned that the Sharans are very interested in the Dragon Reborn.. Graendal kidnapped their figurehead rules (chapt 6 of book 6).. and a Sharan was in Tear, at least least someone who knew that silk came from worms was in Tear and I thought that was a Sharan state-secret.

 

Aside from this, the Trollocs have been amassing a huge army since Book 4 and the Blight has been described a million times as quiet, but I'm sure that's been discussed and the implications are obvious --- huge army in Blight.

 

So my vote is this has something to do with Shara (not saying Demandred is ruling there per se).