The WOT World compared to the world of the First Age (our world)

[The Watcher and Wanderer]

Seeing the WoT map superimposed on our world map seems to imply that the Male AS did quite a number on the world indeed.  I mean half of North America, most of Africa and all of Greenland are just missing.  I suppose some of it could be to to natural shifting of tectonic plates or natural disasters before the AOL but geez.  It looks as though they literally tore NA to shreds.

[Zidel333]

Seeing the WoT map superimposed on our world map seems to imply that the Male AS did quite a number on the world indeed.  I mean half of North America, most of Africa and all of Greenland are just missing.   I suppose some of it could be to to natural shifting of tectonic plates or natural disasters before the AOL but geez.  It looks as though they literally tore NA to shreds.

 

Yes, but I can't verify if the continents are to scale. Mostly, I cropped the contienents out of the Randlandian map, and then pasted them onto our world map, with scale approximate to the general consensus that Randland+Shara = Eurasia, LotM = Austrailia, and Seanchan = the Americas. I'd like to check the Big White Book to see if it's mentioned there, but I don't have a copy.

 

According to the Roleplaying Game, the Glossary, and RJ himself, Randland (that is the Dragonwall to the Aryth Ocean) is anywhere between 3,000 to 4,000 (our) miles. This is approximately the size of the US, where varies from <3,000 to ~3,400 miles at it's widest point. Now, Europe is considered to be the Ural Mountains in Russia and then Eastward to the Atlantic Ocean, and I got ~3,100 miles for that. So, both NA and Europe work for Randland. The plot thickens....

 

[ed2funy]

On your map overlay, I think Seanchan should be on the other side of the Americas.

 

Or partly on top of it, but more to the West.

[The Fisher King]

Just Saw This...Awesome Awesome Job, Agitel.

 

Fish

[Zidel333]

On your map overlay, I think Seanchan should be on the other side of the Americas.

 

Or partly on top of it, but more to the West.

 

Like this? The scale is more accurate on this map -- the equators and Blight match up, and I did my best to keep everything in proprotion. Alas, now the map doesn't fit as well as my previous attempt. Eurasia has more land, Austrailia is only 1/2 the size of LoM, and Seanchan is now completely different from NA. Also, note that the Pacific Ocean is far, far larger then the Morenal Ocean.

 

 

[ed2funy]

but the distance is better..

 

plus...things were changed...

 

we can't expect to see everything too close.

[Zidel333]

True....

 

This project really helped me realize how freakin' huge WoT World is, especially Seanchan. 9 years of being a fan, and my internal scale was completely off. No wonder traveling around on horseback took so long in the earlier books. Plus it helps explain why the invading Seanchan armiesa and the Return just keep coming.

[ed2funy]

They didn't leave.

They couldn't go back to Seanchan and give Randland more time to prepare.

 

[Zidel333]

They didn't leave.

They couldn't go back to Seanchan and give Randland more time to prepare.

 

 

Uhh..could you rephrase that? Maybe it is the late hour, but I didn't catch your point.

[Agitel]

Seeing the WoT map superimposed on our world map seems to imply that the Male AS did quite a number on the world indeed.  I mean half of North America, most of Africa and all of Greenland are just missing.   I suppose some of it could be to to natural shifting of tectonic plates or natural disasters before the AOL but geez.  It looks as though they literally tore NA to shreds.

 

Yes, but I can't verify if the continents are to scale. Mostly, I cropped the contienents out of the Randlandian map, and then pasted them onto our world map, with scale approximate to the general consensus that Randland+Shara = Eurasia, LotM = Austrailia, and Seanchan = the Americas. I'd like to check the Big White Book to see if it's mentioned there, but I don't have a copy.

 

According to the Roleplaying Game, the Glossary, and RJ himself, Randland (that is the Dragonwall to the Aryth Ocean) is anywhere between 3,000 to 4,000 (our) miles. This is approximately the size of the US, where varies from <3,000 to ~3,400 miles at it's widest point. Now, Europe is considered to be the Ural Mountains in Russia and then Eastward to the Atlantic Ocean, and I got ~3,100 miles for that. So, both NA and Europe work for Randland. The plot thickens....

 

 

But Randland isn't the entire continent. If you count the Aiel Waste and Shara, the distances match up the Europe and Asia.

 

As for the maps we've been given, particularly the fan maps, I consider them to be Jordan approved (as they are), but I don't consider them to be 100% accurate. Keep in mind also that it's difficult to superimpose a sphere onto a flat map. Most real maps of the world are distorted vertically. Randland (nor any of the maps) have lat/long lines, so lining things up exactly by overlapping isn't going to work very easily.

 

As for Seanchan's placement, I agree with the first map more. In my view, most of North America got destroyed (the western coast is just gone), and what was the east is now in the west. The bulk of the southern continent would sit with the top half of South America, and that curved mountain range to the southeast matches up with the curve of the Andes. I'm FAR less sure about Seanchan than I am about the eastern continent, which I am very confident in. Let me attempt something.

 

 

To be honest, I gave up on drawing Seanchan. My scale was off tremendously. However, I think the drawing shows that it's more eastern position still puts it far enough away from Randland for quite a long voyage, if a little shorter than the one Columbus took.

[ed2funy]

I am sorry Zidel, I was eating an apple, and had use of only one hand to type.

 

I was just saying why the Seanchan didn't leave.

I was agreeing with you pretty much, on the realization of why they didn't leave.

[Zidel333]

I am sorry Zidel, I was eating an apple, and had use of only one hand to type.

 

I was just saying why the Seanchan didn't leave.

I was agreeing with you pretty much, on the realization of why they didn't leave.

 

It's cool. :)

[Zidel333]

Seeing the WoT map superimposed on our world map seems to imply that the Male AS did quite a number on the world indeed.  I mean half of North America, most of Africa and all of Greenland are just missing.   I suppose some of it could be to to natural shifting of tectonic plates or natural disasters before the AOL but geez.  It looks as though they literally tore NA to shreds.

 

Yes, but I can't verify if the continents are to scale. Mostly, I cropped the contienents out of the Randlandian map, and then pasted them onto our world map, with scale approximate to the general consensus that Randland+Shara = Eurasia, LotM = Austrailia, and Seanchan = the Americas. I'd like to check the Big White Book to see if it's mentioned there, but I don't have a copy.

 

According to the Roleplaying Game, the Glossary, and RJ himself, Randland (that is the Dragonwall to the Aryth Ocean) is anywhere between 3,000 to 4,000 (our) miles. This is approximately the size of the US, where varies from <3,000 to ~3,400 miles at it's widest point. Now, Europe is considered to be the Ural Mountains in Russia and then Eastward to the Atlantic Ocean, and I got ~3,100 miles for that. So, both NA and Europe work for Randland. The plot thickens....

 

 

But Randland isn't the entire continent. If you count the Aiel Waste and Shara, the distances match up the Europe and Asia.

 

As for the maps we've been given, particularly the fan maps, I consider them to be Jordan approved (as they are), but I don't consider them to be 100% accurate. Keep in mind also that it's difficult to superimpose a sphere onto a flat map. Most real maps of the world are distorted vertically. Randland (nor any of the maps) have lat/long lines, so lining things up exactly by overlapping isn't going to work very easily.

 

As for Seanchan's placement, I agree with the first map more. In my view, most of North America got destroyed (the western coast is just gone), and what was the east is now in the west. The bulk of the southern continent would sit with the top half of South America, and that curved mountain range to the southeast matches up with the curve of the Andes. I'm FAR less sure about Seanchan than I am about the eastern continent, which I am very confident in. Let me attempt something.

 

 

To be honest, I gave up on drawing Seanchan. My scale was off tremendously. However, I think the drawing shows that it's more eastern position still puts it far enough away from Randland for quite a long voyage, if a little shorter than the one Columbus took.

 

LMAO -- yeah, manipulating the maps is pretty hard. As it is, the map is pretty good.

 

The scale is very much off -- the width of Seanchan is approximately the width of Randland + Aielwaste. It's pretty big. Either they dredged the oceans, or the bulk of South American smashed into North America. Also, LoM is more then 2x the size of Australia, as far as I can tell.

 

Btw, the equator line that runs through Seanchan and Randland is obviously off. Unless the male Aes Sedai managed to knock the earth off it's tilt?! Never though of that before. If so, that might explan some of the discrepancies in weather and the climate zones of Randland. (Does Tear and Illian EVER get snow?!) Anyone want to do the research and make a climate zone map of Randland? Haha, I kid, but that would be crazy.

 

 

 

 

[The Watcher and Wanderer]

One thing that I think can be ruled out in looking at these maps is the popular belief that Sarah is the result of Africa abutting with Asia.  For this to happen Africa would first have to dirft Southeast around India and then drift norhtward. It seems more likely that the Randland/Aiel Waste/Sarah landmass is is either the result of Africa drifting northwest and abutting with North America or possibly South America drifting northward and abutting with NA.  Then of course there is the original theory presented in the thread that the R/A/S landmass is just and altered version of Eurasia.

 

Another possibility is that Australia drifted northward and abutted with Asia and formed the southern portion of Sarah and the Land of Madmen is actually there remains of South America.  Thus, Seanchan is the shattered remains of North America, Central America, Greenland etc.

[Agitel]

The equator running through Shara seems to line up really well. There's no equator running through Randland. Tear ends up running somewhere along the same lat as Florida, while Ebou Dar and Illian run south of that. Apprently, snow does reach the northern reaches of Tear and Illian, at least somewhat.

 

Anyway, if Seanchan is as wide as that, I may be able to come up with something better. Not now, though, but I'm pretty sure I can match up the Appalachians a bit.

[ROB_88]

There's no equator running through Randland. Tear ends up running somewhere along the same lat as Florida, while Ebou Dar and Illian run south of that. Apprently, snow does reach the northern reaches of Tear and Illian, at least somewhat.

 

nope, that doesn't seem right. remember that people of the south coast believe that the snow is a lie. therefore it can't snow anywhere near Tear or Illian and that must be much more south

[StMilli]

How about just believing what Robert Jordan said, that he lives in the Two Rivers. We know oceans rose and fell so maybe the Atlantic Ocean is no more. In the middle of the Atlantic around twenty three hundred miles away from South Carolina Tectonic plates meet and create a large ridge. Maybe thats the forerunner to the Spine of the World.

[Agitel]

There's no equator running through Randland. Tear ends up running somewhere along the same lat as Florida, while Ebou Dar and Illian run south of that. Apprently, snow does reach the northern reaches of Tear and Illian, at least somewhat.

 

nope, that doesn't seem right. remember that people of the south coast believe that the snow is a lie. therefore it can't snow anywhere near Tear or Illian and that must be much more south

 

Have you looked at the Jordan approved world map posted on the first page. The equator on my comparison map lines up near perfectly. Keep in mind that while Tear is at the same lat as Florida, it's also in the same position deep into Saudi Arabia, which I don't believe is well known for snow. Climate can be influenced by a lot more than latitude. Perhaps the Sea of Storms has a big warming effect, I can't say. but I don't think we can rule out this latitude. And as I said, at certain points, I believe it's in PoD, one of Rand's chapters makes a point that it doesn't snow "this far south in Illian" or something that effect, which sort of implies that it snows further north. Keep in mind people can't just hop in a car and travel, most probably haven't ever been far outside of the city or are very far from where they were born.

 

 

How about just believing what Robert Jordan said, that he lives in the Two Rivers. We know oceans rose and fell so maybe the Atlantic Ocean is no more. In the middle of the Atlantic around twenty three hundred miles away from South Carolina Tectonic plates meet and create a large ridge. Maybe thats the forerunner to the Spine of the World.

 

I always took that to be metaphorical. I just think that the idea that North America had 7000 miles added to it's eastern coast and 2700 miles blasted off its west coast, with an eastern and southeastern coast that lines up with certain geographical features and highlands in western Europe and Northern Africa and having the land to the east of Randland have features lined up with the Ural Mountains, Himalayas, and even match up extremely well with southeastern Asia to be far too much of a coincidence. That, and also considering that the length from the coast of Randland to the coast of Shara matching up near perfectly to the distance from my comparison endpoints between Europe and Asia to be far too coincidental to dismissed so lightly.

 

[ROB_88]

There's no equator running through Randland. Tear ends up running somewhere along the same lat as Florida, while Ebou Dar and Illian run south of that. Apprently, snow does reach the northern reaches of Tear and Illian, at least somewhat.

 

nope, that doesn't seem right. remember that people of the south coast believe that the snow is a lie. therefore it can't snow anywhere near Tear or Illian and that must be much more south

 

Perhaps the Sea of Storms has a big warming effect

you mean like the golf stream? i guess that's plausible

 

I just think that the idea that North America had 7000 miles added to it's eastern coast and 2700 miles blasted off its west coast,

it doesn't need to be added, the land is always there, it's just covered with water at the moment. and with x amount of years worth of landshifting can make anything happen. especially with the Breaking.

 

just raising or lowering the lands a few meters would change the coastline forever

[Agitel]

I do agree it is possible ROB_88, it just seems like the less likely scenario to me. To assume continental drift assumes some millions of years, which is possible with enough turnings, but I don't think we're so far gone off of the geography RJ may have been working with.

 

I'm considering trying to see if I can get Seanchan out of the Americas. What do we have to go on that the widest part of Seanchan is 3,500 miles (about) across, the same distance from coast to the Spine of the World in Randland? Is it just the world map?

[The Watcher and Wanderer]

I do agree it is possible ROB_88, it just seems like the less likely scenario to me. To assume continental drift assumes some millions of years, which is possible with enough turnings, but I don't think we're so far gone off of the geography RJ may have been working with.

 

I'm considering trying to see if I can get Seanchan out of the Americas. What do we have to go on that the widest part of Seanchan is 3,500 miles (about) across, the same distance from coast to the Spine of the World in Randland? Is it just the world map?

 

Well we do have this form "Robert Jordan's World of The Wheel of Time"

 

Far across the Aryth Ocean lies the continent of the Seanchan.  Bordered by the Morenal Ocean to the west and the Aryth  to the east it is known to be approximately fifteen hundred leagues wide at its greatest breadth in the southern hemisphere.

 

So does anyone know how to convert leagues to miles?   If so then we'll have our answer.

[Zidel333]

I do agree it is possible ROB_88, it just seems like the less likely scenario to me. To assume continental drift assumes some millions of years, which is possible with enough turnings, but I don't think we're so far gone off of the geography RJ may have been working with.

 

I'm considering trying to see if I can get Seanchan out of the Americas. What do we have to go on that the widest part of Seanchan is 3,500 miles (about) across, the same distance from coast to the Spine of the World in Randland? Is it just the world map?

 

Well we do have this form "Robert Jordan's World of The Wheel of Time"

 

Far across the Aryth Ocean lies the continent of the Seanchan.  Bordered by the Morenal Ocean to the west and the Aryth  to the east it is known to be approximately fifteen hundred leagues wide at its greatest breadth in the southern hemisphere.

 

So does anyone know how to convert leagues to miles?   If so then we'll have our answer.

 

I guess no one read my previous post, so I'll just quote it again:

 

What's most striking is that Randland world appears to be missing a great deal of land mass compared to our world. If someone has access to the White Book, can you add up roughly how many miles are the continents, convert them to our miles (http://personal.ars-informatica.ca/paul/wot/wot.php?page=measures) and then compare them to our total square mileage for land mass? The answer would be surprising methinks.

 

There does exist a conversion table for WoT measures to our real world measuresments. I had linked it above, but obviously no one checked it out. I assume that the conversion is approximate, but it's better then wild guessing.

 

Cause I'm awesome, here are the tables, and a direct link in case you have issue reading it:

 

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx103/Zidel333/wotmeasures2.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

[Agitel]

That would make the widest part of Seanchan about 6,750 miles. That's pretty ridiculous. Are we sure it's 1,500 WOT leagues?

 

On the other hand, this might make lining up features much easier.

[Zidel333]

6,750 miles seems way too big... just by looking at the map, it should be 4500-5000 miles, at most.

[Effete]

Stumbled upon this (old) thread while doing a similar project. I've got to say, I am NOT a proponent of the "Randland/Waste/Shara = Eurasia" idea. Sure, there are some coincidences in the geography, but too many other things do not line up.

 

Just for fun I threw together this image. 

I started by creating a mile legend, measuring from the coast of Toman Head (Falme) to the center of the Spine, and assigning it a distance of 3600 miles. Through maths and stuff, I derived a distance marker for 1000 miles (see bottom left of image). I then found accurate "flat maps" (no curvature) of the world, synched-up the legends (see bottom right; slightly faded because the transparency I added), and superimposed them on a WoT world map in conspicuous locations. The margin of error, I estimate, is around 50-100 miles, which (let's be honest) is fairly small at this scale.

 

Now, I must say, I am not necessarily a proponent of this model either ?, but it does have some fun coincidences.

• The peninsula of Illian lines up neatly with Florida.

• Windbiter's Finger looks like it could be the Baja Peninsula "fliped out" and shattered.

• The Mountains of Mist correspond with the Rockies.

• The Menetherendrelle /Arinelle river system is errily similar to the Missouri /Mississippi river system (and are in almost the same spot).

• Tanchico, which sounds a bit like [San]Francisco, is on the West Coast (albeit, far too high, but the Breaking can account for shifting).

• The Jangai Pass, which we know used to be a coast during the FA, is right on the tip of Newfoundland.

• Shayol Ghul would be on Greenland... an "idyllic island in a cool sea."

 

Looking at the map, we'll notice that there is enough land mass between N.Amer, S.Amer, and Africa to account for the entirety of Randland, The Waste, and Shara. That is, if we pull in Alaska and the Yukon, then squish it all together.

 

Again, I just did this for funsies... I'm not pushing this model as an accurate one. If anything, take it as a warning to not treat the coincidences in the R/W/S=Eurasia model to be proof positive. Coincidences can be found anywhere.

 

I'm actually really interested in the "Two Rivers = South Carolina" model. That would at least begin to explain the Sand Hills. ?

 

Cheers folks!