Balefire and the Pattern

[ghenjei]

Interesting thought I had while thinking about balefire & the DO & the AoL

 

In the Age of Legends the Forsaken/Chosen & the good guys agreed to stop using Balefire because of its effects on the Pattern. If, as it seems to be becoming apparent, the DO's goal is to unravel the pattern and shatter the Wheel, why is he not commanding his minions to balefire with abandon? Isn't that the quickest way to undo reality and bring about the Dark Age?

 

[Mr Ares]

They don't want to unravel the Pattern, they want to live forever and rule the world. So if He ordered them to unleash balefire, they'd turn against Him.

[ghenjei]

Sure they do. But if Ishy was in charge then as well, wouldn't they just not care and balefire away?

[Balefire to da face!]

A lot of people seem to misunderstand this, even though it seems pretty straight forward.

 

The Dark One wants to "slay the serpent" and "break the wheel" and all that stuff that basically means he wants to reweave reality to his own dark image. He does not want to end existence completely.

 

When we talk about balefire unraveling the pattern, that's what I beleive it would do. Unravel everything. There would be nothing left. Void. The DO doesn't want that.

[SheaththeSword]

Yes i'm pretty sure DO couldnt create a new pattern even if he wanted, he can onlt twist whats there for him. I mean this is entirely my opinion but i believe the DO's rols/powers are to interfere and destroy, while his opposite, mr Creator, creates and lets things go as they are after that (not interfere)

[ghenjei]

I still disagree.

 

The DO's prison exists outside the Pattern and therefore, outside the Wheel (imagine the pattern as the age lace spread between the spokes of the Wheel).

 

I know we're not supposed to talk too much TGS, but there's a great discussion where Min realizes that her viewings of the Pattern will only come true IF Rand defeats the DO.  There is an acknowledgement that the DO will "Slay the Serpent" (i.e. destroy the Wheel & undo the Pattern).

 

Would he then recreate his own Pattern? or would he simply let the chaos of the void exist as his kingdom?

[Balefire to da face!]

I still disagree.

 

The DO's prison exists outside the Pattern and therefore, outside the Wheel (imagine the pattern as the age lace spread between the spokes of the Wheel).

 

I would imagine it is probably likely that the DO does exist outside the pattern. If not, he probably would expressly forbid the Forsaken from using Balefire. Don't want your minions indirectly unraveling you.

 

I do not think the DO can recreate the pattern with nothing to work with, though.

 

I know we're not supposed to talk too much TGS, but there's a great discussion where Min realizes that her viewings of the Pattern will only come true IF Rand defeats the DO.  There is an acknowledgement that the DO will "Slay the Serpent" (i.e. destroy the Wheel & undo the Pattern).

 

Would he then recreate his own Pattern? or would he simply let the chaos of the void exist as his kingdom?

 

The DO would reweave the pattern in his own image. There is no reason to beleive Min's talent would be able to read it if/when the DO does this. Min is not the Creator, she just has a certain talent.

 

To simplify. The DO needs to break loose so that he can break the wheel, slay the serpent, and take the threads and reweave them into his own dark image.

 

The Dark One does not need Forsaken taking all the threads, burning the hell out of them, unraveling the wheel, and causing reality and existence to fall apart completely.

[Mr Ares]

Sure they do. But if Ishy was in charge then as well, wouldn't they just not care and balefire away?

Of course they care. They were using balefire, it threatened to destroy the world they wanted to rule, so they stopped. If Shai'tan had tried to force them, they would have abandoned Him. If any had carried on using it, that likely would have pissed off his or her colleagues to the extent they would kill the Chosen in question. Ishy couldn't force them to use it (he wasn't nae'blis then) and if he tried on his own they wouldn't let him, so he wouldn't risk his apocalypse.

[ROB_88]

Sure they do. But if Ishy was in charge then as well, wouldn't they just not care and balefire away?

Of course they care. They were using balefire, it threatened to destroy the world they wanted to rule, so they stopped. If Shai'tan had tried to force them, they would have abandoned Him.

but what happened to the "you never say no to the Dark Lord and get away with it"?

if he really wanted to use balefire to end it all he could just torture them all until someone wanted the sweet release of death amd said yes.

[Choedan Kal]

What if you were in a huge battefield and you used balefire on let's say a Forsaken...then in return you got balefired during the same battle seconds later....

 

Does anyone see that this would create an inconsistent problem if everyone used balefire, the pattern would unravel itself

[Beren]

 

I know we're not supposed to talk too much TGS, but there's a great discussion where Min realizes that her viewings of the Pattern will only come true IF Rand defeats the DO. 

 

This is not the actual quote and the wording you use is misleading. I am not posting the quote here as these boards are not open to TGS spoilers yet, but if you are going to post something, the least you can do is to make sure it is correct.

[Mr Ares]

Sure they do. But if Ishy was in charge then as well, wouldn't they just not care and balefire away?

Of course they care. They were using balefire, it threatened to destroy the world they wanted to rule, so they stopped. If Shai'tan had tried to force them, they would have abandoned Him.

but what happened to the "you never say no to the Dark Lord and get away with it"?

if he really wanted to use balefire to end it all he could just torture them all until someone wanted the sweet release of death amd said yes.

He would have to torture them all. His entire Channeler army, and He can't trust any of them an inch. The one hold He had on them is gone. They'd desert en masse at the earliest opportunity. The Shadow has nothing left that they want. No, better to wait a bit, string them along, find another way to break out, and then destroy the world. If He really wanted to use it, yes, He could do as you suggest, but if He doesn't, if it's just one possible way, then don't bother. There are other, better ways.