The One Power (Full Book Spoilers)--No Balefire!

[Luckers]

For discussion of new information about the One Power, including *'angreal, new weaves, new information about old weaves, and the application of the One Power in the book.

 

Please use common sense. Much of this could lead into other discussions, which belong in other threads. For instance if you wish to discuss the ter'angreal the Bloodknives wear it goes in this thread, if you want to discuss what the Bloodknives might yet achieve it goes in the Seanchan thread.

 

Discuss!

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

There was a weave mentioned for the 100 weaves test.  A weave of Spirit, Air and Fire that creates three rings of fire, of different colour.

 

Is the colour dependent on the weaves, or on the will of the channeler?

[WWWwombat]

Balefire goes in da balefire thread amirite?

[Leezus]

There was a weave mentioned for the 100 weaves test.  A weave of Spirit, Air and Fire that creates three rings of fire, of different colour.

 

Is the colour dependent on the weaves, or on the will of the channeler?

 

Well, Mr. Jordan, being a Physicist, likely wouldn't leave something to being because it is, which 'the will of the channeler' would I think be fairly considered. The weaving of the powers is a system, and so to to produce your will, you must work through that system, so I think it's safe to say that it's both. You will it be green, so you weave it so.

 

Also, in the real world, one of the most important factor in the color of a flame is the oxygen supply, as it directly relates to the heat of the flame. So, I imagine that weave of air is a large contributer to determining the color.

[Luckers]

Balefire goes in da balefire thread amirite?

 

You are--emphatically--right.

 

Everytime I look in that thread I want to cry.

[WWWwombat]

Balefire goes in da balefire thread amirite?

 

You are--emphatically--right.

 

Everytime I look in that thread I want to cry.

 

That makes me proud to be part of that thread ";..;".  Also, I see you amended the thread title lol.

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

Then what is Spirit for?  A ball of fire requires Air and Fire only.  Why would Spirit be included?  Even in rings, I think that the weave would still be Air and Fire

[Majsju]

Balefire goes in da balefire thread amirite?

 

You are--emphatically--right.

 

Everytime I look in that thread I want to cry.

 

Most of the threads makes me feel that way these days...

[Luckers]

That's because your swedish.

[Muad Cheade]

For instance if you wish to discuss the ter'angreal the Bloodknives wear it goes in this thread

 

Funny you should mention that...Where exactly did the Seanchan get those? I'm guessing they were originally from the Aes Sedai who ruled that continent originally but that also means the Seanchan are capable of duplicating ter'angreal (although I guess a'dams are already proof of that)

 

I wonder what other tricks they have up their sleeve.

 

Also, how exactly is it possible for Rand to channel into a stedding (albeit the artificial one of Far Madding)? I'm referencing the scene where he is tempted to rain fire down on the Borderlanders. I thought steddings were basically the equivalent of gholam: weaves dissipate when they touch them.

 

Would he be able to because Far Madding isn't a real stedding? Although I guess it would make more sense if he was going to use the True Power on them but that wasn't the case.

[Bob T Dwarf]

I think, if you reread that scene, Rand was thinking about raining fire down on the troops camped outside Far Madding.

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

For instance if you wish to discuss the ter'angreal the Bloodknives wear it goes in this thread

 

Funny you should mention that...Where exactly did the Seanchan get those? I'm guessing they were originally from the Aes Sedai who ruled that continent originally but that also means the Seanchan are capable of duplicating ter'angreal (although I guess a'dams are already proof of that)

 

I wonder what other tricks they have up their sleeve.

 

Also, how exactly is it possible for Rand to channel into a stedding (albeit the artificial one of Far Madding)? I'm referencing the scene where he is tempted to rain fire down on the Borderlanders. I thought steddings were basically the equivalent of gholam: weaves dissipate when they touch them.

 

Would he be able to because Far Madding isn't a real stedding? Although I guess it would make more sense if he was going to use the True Power on them but that wasn't the case.

 

Well, after the fire has been created by the weave, the fire becomes a seperate entity that does not need to be sustained.  So the fire would not disappate when it hits Far Madding, because the One Power is not needed to sustain the fire.

[WWWwombat]

That's because your swedish.

 

I lol'd

[Luckers]

I think, if you reread that scene, Rand was thinking about raining fire down on the troops camped outside Far Madding.

 

But they were within the ter'angreal's influence.

 

It's possible it might simply have failed if he'd tried. Certainly RJ stated that what is woven outside a stedding will disipate in touching it.

 

Of course had he woven lightning (which seems most likely) it wouldn't have been an issue

 

Well, after the fire has been created by the weave, the fire becomes a seperate entity that does not need to be sustained.  So the fire would not disappate when it hits Far Madding, because the One Power is not needed to sustain the fire.

 

Fire does not naturally exist in the air. Without the power the heat would dissipate in seconds--as happens to the fireball Cyndane used against Alivia.

[Ged]

Far Madding isn't a stedding and doesn't stop the channeling of anything. It just makes the source unaccessable within the range of the guardian. Someone outside the guardian's range can channel into that area, and with the Choedan Kal and the increased power and range, Rand could've channeled a lot into Far Madding from outside it.

 

Nynaeve actually mentions this when she says that Rand should be able to channel into Far Madding fine, because she could weave in there using her well to draw Saidar from.

[Muad Cheade]

I think, if you reread that scene, Rand was thinking about raining fire down on the troops camped outside Far Madding.

 

Nynaeve thinks to herself:

 

The army looked close enough to be within the bubble that prevented men from channeling, which extended about a mile out around the city."

 

He threatens to use a "rain of fire" or "lightning to strike and bite so I guess he thinks either will work.

 

Nynaeve also thinks that:

 

She wasn't certain what would happen if he aimed a weave into the protective bubble of Far Madding, but she suspected it would still work. The Guardian didn't stop weaves from being made; Nynaeve had been able to craft weaves just fine, when she'd drawn upon her Well.

 

I think this is implying that in natural steddings, channeling by using Wells isn't possible. Which eliminates the possibility that that was how Verin knew that the soul of the Ogier who had been touched by Machin Shin was gone.

 

Perhaps that is the hidden flaw of the Guardian: channeling in it is possible through the use of Wells and channeling into it is also possible,

[Luckers]

Far Madding isn't a stedding and doesn't stop the channeling of anything. It just makes the source unaccessable within the range of the guardian. Someone outside the guardian's range can channel into that area, and with the Choedan Kal and the increased power and range, Rand could've channeled a lot into Far Madding from outside it.

 

Thats an assumption. Don't get me wrong, it may be right, but it's not stated or suggested in the books.

 

Quote from: Nynaeve al'Maera

The army looked close enough to be within the bubble that prevented men from channeling, which extended about a mile out around the city."

 

He threatens to use a "rain of fire" or "lightning to strike and bite so I guess he thinks either will work.

 

Nynaeve also thinks that:

 

 

Quote from: Nynaeve al'Maera

She wasn't certain what would happen if he aimed a weave into the protective bubble of Far Madding, but she suspected it would still work. The Guardian didn't stop weaves from being made; Nynaeve had been able to craft weaves just fine, when she'd drawn upon her Well.

 

I think this is implying that in natural steddings, channeling by using Wells isn't possible.

 

Nynaeve is guessing.

 

Which eliminates the possibility that that was how Verin knew that the soul of the Ogier who had been touched by Machin Shin was gone.

 

That wasn't channeling. The absense of the soul leaves the flesh feeling cold in a very distinct way. We learn this from when Perrin goes too deep in the dream and Annoura shows Berelain how to feel the signs of a lost soul. Verin needed only to touch the Ogier.

[Ged]

Weaves that touch a stedding vanish. In Far Madding, weaves don't vanish.

 

Although admittedly, indirect effects wouldn't be much of a problem either way.

 

 

The more stupid part of that whole thing was that Rand felt he needed to actually hit soldiers. Why not just turn the sky to fire, and show them that they were within his power? .. Retarded.

 

Its a little like nukes being used on an actual city of people, instead of as a demonstration elsewhere.

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

Well, after the fire has been created by the weave, the fire becomes a seperate entity that does not need to be sustained.  So the fire would not disappate when it hits Far Madding, because the One Power is not needed to sustain the fire.

 

Fire does not naturally exist in the air. Without the power the heat would dissipate in seconds--as happens to the fireball Cyndane used against Alivia.

 

Then how do the fireballs the Aes Sedai throw last in the air?  Are you saying that for every fireball there must be a weave?  Then a normal Aes Sedai would only be able to sustain three fireballs at once when fighting, and do nothing else.  But Moiraine manages to call down lightning at the same time, and rend the earth.  Or are you saying that the weave sustains every fireball that is created from it?

[Luckers]

Weaves that touch a stedding vanish. In Far Madding, weaves don't vanish.

 

Although admittedly, indirect effects wouldn't be much of a problem either way.

 

 

The more stupid part of that whole thing was that Rand felt he needed to actually hit soldiers. Why not just turn the sky to fire, and show them that they were within his power? .. Retarded.

 

Its a little like nukes being used on an actual city of people, instead of as a demonstration elsewhere.

 

Again, assumption.

 

Well, after the fire has been created by the weave, the fire becomes a seperate entity that does not need to be sustained.  So the fire would not disappate when it hits Far Madding, because the One Power is not needed to sustain the fire.

 

Fire does not naturally exist in the air. Without the power the heat would dissipate in seconds--as happens to the fireball Cyndane used against Alivia.

 

Then how do the fireballs the Aes Sedai throw last in the air?  Are you saying that for every fireball there must be a weave?  Then a normal Aes Sedai would only be able to sustain three fireballs at once when fighting, and do nothing else.  But Moiraine manages to call down lightning at the same time, and rend the earth.  Or are you saying that the weave sustains every fireball that is created from it?

 

The weave sustains the fireball, and goes with it. And yes, each fireball is seemingly a distinct weave. Moiraine was dividing her flows.

[Nightstrike]

For instance if you wish to discuss the ter'angreal the Bloodknives wear it goes in this thread

 

Funny you should mention that...Where exactly did the Seanchan get those? I'm guessing they were originally from the Aes Sedai who ruled that continent originally but that also means the Seanchan are capable of duplicating ter'angreal (although I guess a'dams are already proof of that)

I wondered about that when I read about it. I saw some RJ quote that said Seanchan could only make one type of ter'angreal. The a'dam. They hadn't thought about making another. Does this mean they've made any effort, or did they already have some of those?

 

 

[Luckers]

For instance if you wish to discuss the ter'angreal the Bloodknives wear it goes in this thread

 

Funny you should mention that...Where exactly did the Seanchan get those? I'm guessing they were originally from the Aes Sedai who ruled that continent originally but that also means the Seanchan are capable of duplicating ter'angreal (although I guess a'dams are already proof of that)

I wondered about that when I read about it. I saw some RJ quote that said Seanchan could only make one type of ter'angreal. The a'dam. They hadn't thought about making another. Does this mean they've made any effort, or did they already have some of those?

 

 

 

The numbers seem to deny the possibility of a stockpile of bloodknife rings. Would you be able to find the quote?

[Nightstrike]

DragonCon '05 - Emma reporting (copied from Theoryland):

Q: Do certain races have better ability at channeling than others? For example, the Sea Folk at very good at weather, the Aiel have a high proportion of Dreamers, and the Seanchan can make ter'angreal.

RJ: The Seanchan can only make one kind of ter'angreal. They haven't thought about making another. Certain groups are better at some abilities but its a matter of need. The Atha'an Miere are dependent on the sea, the wind and water and it would be natural for them to develop high skills to deal with control of weather and winds. For the Aiel, Dreaming is one of the ways to find new water, using need is how they find water. When the population in a hold is too great, and they have to find a new hold, the Dreamwalker uses need to find it. So yes, there are more Dreamwalkers there.

 

 

 

[Luckers]

Possibly then the rings of the bloodknives are a new discovery. It didn't feel that way in the book, but still... Weird.

[Nightstrike]

They might feel a need to explore new things now when they are approaching Tarmon Gai'don. I guess that's not impossible.

 

Maybe they had one or two, and then decided they should try and duplicate it/them.