Rand's Plotline (spoilers for the entire book)

[Demon_AS]

clu7ch - Much merit in what you say.  After Rand's encounter with Semi, many people start to see the "dark halo" around him when he goes all evil.  Tuon, a very perceptive observer, senses evil in him very strongly at their meeting. 

 

IF Rand's shining moment on Dragonmount truly means a new attitude for Rand, and a new hope for mankind, he still has a huge amount of work to do to overcome what "BadRand" has done.  Trust will not be easily regained.

I'm not sure that Rand does need to do a whole load of backtracking. Everything he did as BadRand (although I, personally, prefer "BlackRand" :P) made perfect sense... he was doing what needed to be done, and being as objective as it is possible to be.

 

The only thing he needs to correct, really, is sending force to Tarwin's Gap to aid al'Lan Mandragoran (no real reason to my typing his full name out, I just like it lol). Besides, I think that "shining moment" you described does indicate a turn-around in Rand's personality.

 

Do you know what is so frustrating? Four years of waiting, and in four days I finished the book (pretty slow going for me, but I've been busy). And now another year of rocking back and forth in the silences of my mind must go by before we see the next part. Alas, 'tis the bittersweet reality that is the life of a fantasy fan :P.

[lillcheese]

clu7ch - Much merit in what you say.  After Rand's encounter with Semi, many people start to see the "dark halo" around him when he goes all evil.  Tuon, a very perceptive observer, senses evil in him very strongly at their meeting. 

 

IF Rand's shining moment on Dragonmount truly means a new attitude for Rand, and a new hope for mankind, he still has a huge amount of work to do to overcome what "BadRand" has done.  Trust will not be easily regained.

I'm not sure that Rand does need to do a whole load of backtracking. Everything he did as BadRand (although I, personally, prefer "BlackRand" :P) made perfect sense... he was doing what needed to be done, and being as objective as it is possible to be.

 

The only thing he needs to correct, really, is sending force to Tarwin's Gap to aid al'Lan Mandragoran (no real reason to my typing his full name out, I just like it lol). Besides, I think that "shining moment" you described does indicate a turn-around in Rand's personality.

 

Do you know what is so frustrating? Four years of waiting, and in four days I finished the book (pretty slow going for me, but I've been busy). And now another year of rocking back and forth in the silences of my mind must go by before we see the next part. Alas, 'tis the bittersweet reality that is the life of a fantasy fan :P.

 

I agree.  I think most people will be so relieved that he's no longer talking to himself and pushing people away that they'll readily forgive him.  If the land is linked to the Dragon (as per Thom), his current lack of insanity should do as much as anything in fixing what he did.

[benr]

clu7ch - Much merit in what you say.  After Rand's encounter with Semi, many people start to see the "dark halo" around him when he goes all evil.  Tuon, a very perceptive observer, senses evil in him very strongly at their meeting. 

 

IF Rand's shining moment on Dragonmount truly means a new attitude for Rand, and a new hope for mankind, he still has a huge amount of work to do to overcome what "BadRand" has done.  Trust will not be easily regained.

I'm not sure that Rand does need to do a whole load of backtracking. Everything he did as BadRand (although I, personally, prefer "BlackRand" :P) made perfect sense... he was doing what needed to be done, and being as objective as it is possible to be.

 

The only thing he needs to correct, really, is sending force to Tarwin's Gap to aid al'Lan Mandragoran (no real reason to my typing his full name out, I just like it lol). Besides, I think that "shining moment" you described does indicate a turn-around in Rand's personality.

 

Do you know what is so frustrating? Four years of waiting, and in four days I finished the book (pretty slow going for me, but I've been busy). And now another year of rocking back and forth in the silences of my mind must go by before we see the next part. Alas, 'tis the bittersweet reality that is the life of a fantasy fan :P.

 

You misunderstand.  I don't necessarily think that his DECISIONS were all wrong, it is the mistrust he has sewn amongst supporters, allies, needed-allies, etc.  They perceive him as evil, and rightly so.  He needs to change their perceptions of him, and that is a hard thing to do - especially Fortuona.  BlackRand works fine for me!

 

Yeah, it is always a let-down to finish one of the books, but knowing I "only" have a year to wait for the next one is encouraging.  Plenty of fodder for discussion from TGS.  The feeling is nothing compared to what I'll feel in two years, though.

[Demon_AS]

clu7ch - Much merit in what you say.  After Rand's encounter with Semi, many people start to see the "dark halo" around him when he goes all evil.  Tuon, a very perceptive observer, senses evil in him very strongly at their meeting. 

 

IF Rand's shining moment on Dragonmount truly means a new attitude for Rand, and a new hope for mankind, he still has a huge amount of work to do to overcome what "BadRand" has done.  Trust will not be easily regained.

I'm not sure that Rand does need to do a whole load of backtracking. Everything he did as BadRand (although I, personally, prefer "BlackRand" :P) made perfect sense... he was doing what needed to be done, and being as objective as it is possible to be.

 

The only thing he needs to correct, really, is sending force to Tarwin's Gap to aid al'Lan Mandragoran (no real reason to my typing his full name out, I just like it lol). Besides, I think that "shining moment" you described does indicate a turn-around in Rand's personality.

 

Do you know what is so frustrating? Four years of waiting, and in four days I finished the book (pretty slow going for me, but I've been busy). And now another year of rocking back and forth in the silences of my mind must go by before we see the next part. Alas, 'tis the bittersweet reality that is the life of a fantasy fan :P.

 

You misunderstand.  I don't necessarily think that his DECISIONS were all wrong, it is the mistrust he has sewn amongst supporters, allies, needed-allies, etc.  They perceive him as evil, and rightly so.  He needs to change their perceptions of him, and that is a hard thing to do - especially Fortuona.  BlackRand works fine for me!

 

Yeah, it is always a let-down to finish one of the books, but knowing I "only" have a year to wait for the next one is encouraging.  Plenty of fodder for discussion from TGS.  The feeling is nothing compared to what I'll feel in two years, though.

Ah, you are quite correct - I did misunderstand. My apologies - and I agree! But his three ladies will be able to verify that he's a changed man... or a man reverted to his old self as much as is possible. The loss of Lews Therin's voice will be interesting.

 

Something has just occurred to me, though, and I would like everyone's input on it. Min was talking about that quote from the Karaethon Cycle about three becoming one with the help of a sword of light - wait a second, I'll just fish it out from my book.

 

Here it is:

 

"He shall hold a blade of light in his hands, and three shall become one". (Page 743 in the hardback copy, Chapter 48: "Reading the Commentary")

 

Now, as I'm sure most of you will have considered, I thought then that it was referring to Rand, Lews Therin and Moridin.

 

But Lews Therin's voice is no longer active in Rand's mind, as it was written that they were never two different people, just two bodies for the same spirit.

 

So, what, then, does this mean?

[benr]

I, too, mean to think on this further, but an initial thought of mine is that they will all three TRULY become one.  Rand has accepted LTT as a part of him, not a separate entity - the joining with Moridin wouldn't necessarily have to be the same.  It's a part of the next book(s) that I really anticipate.

[firstfishman]

What if rand actually kills the dark one, and instead of no more dark one, moridin takes his place and becomes the new dark one being sealed away and when he awakens into his full power is when he allows the TP to be sensed and the Bore to be drilled. Crazy theory right?

 

 

Ive thought this over, and haven't discarded it as of yet... Rands use of balefire would be an effective way of dealing with the Dark One. Especially if you think about the Dark One being "Master of the Grave" and all. Ive had visions of Rand destroying SG with balefire and letting a huge stream fly straight into the bore as the DO emerges... That would be a pretty weak culmination of 14 books though. I think the final battle will be a game of stones, or some kind of battle of wits... The tasty battles will be of the armies clearing the way to SG for the Rand, Matt, and Perrin.. Too many theories have merit....

 

[Demon_AS]

I, too, mean to think on this further, but an initial thought of mine is that they will all three TRULY become one.  Rand has accepted LTT as a part of him, not a separate entity - the joining with Moridin wouldn't necessarily have to be the same.  It's a part of the next book(s) that I really anticipate.

Hmmm, see, I had considered that, but the sentence implies that all three aspects of whatever is being combined will be present at the same time. I think it's probably fair to say that the spectre of Lews Therin is no longer present, and therefore the three elements which will be combined by Callandor would have to include someone or something else. Assuming that Callandor is the blade of light - we were given no clues as to the significance of the non-heron-marked blade that Rand has alluded to throughout the book, so until proven otherwise, it's a possibility.

 

Mind you, countering my own argument above, Rand was speculating about why he even needed Callandor in the first place to fulfill the prophecies. This strikes me as being too convenient a clue about the true purpose of the sa'angreal for us not to consider it as the most likely candidate in this prophecy.

[Owners.Inc]

Did anyone else get this warm fuzzy feeling when Rand stood up for Mat? Despite all the other stuff going on, I was kinda impressed by how Rand back Mat up. Of course, so did Nynaeve, but Rand gets props for doing it despite being a lunatic.

[Demon_AS]

Did anyone else get this warm fuzzy feeling when Rand stood up for Mat? Despite all the other stuff going on, I was kinda impressed by how Rand back Mat up. Of course, so did Nynaeve, but Rand gets props for doing it despite being a lunatic.

Hehehe, yeah.

 

Good to see a bit of friendship there.

 

I liked how both Perrin and Mat reacted to Rand's lack of left hand. Both, in their own way, worried for him.

[lillcheese]

I think the three become one thing is about using Callandor with two women.  Since LTT isn't "real", the merging no longer makes much sense, imho.

 

I know the Bore wasn't necessarily a physical hole. I can't shake the feeling that he'll use Callandor as the plug, a true seal as apposed to the 7 flawed ones.  I want to see Callandor used in a physical way, not as the sa'angreal.  

 

Maybe I've just got Dark Crystal on the brain.

[tneva82]

Then he sinks even deeper by BFing Graendal's little fortress with hundreds of innocent people inside. It's true that they were pawns of Graendal but Rand burned their threads from the pattern for all time! They don't get the chance to live again. Their souls are forever lost. That's horribly tragic.

 

Hmm. Based on wheel of time FAQ they can be reborn normally. Relevant quote:

 

The description of balefire leaves us one important question: does "burning one's thread from the Pattern" mean that one's soul is destroyed forever, and one can never be reborn? John Novak finally got an answer for this from RJ at a post-TPOD book-signing [Northern Virginia - 21 November, 1998]:

 

Balefire: I'm right. (This was my question) What this means is, if someone is balefired, the Dark One can't reincarnate them. But they CAN be spun back out into the wheel as normal. Balefire is NOT the eternal death of the soul. He also made a comment to the effect that even in the absence of balefire, there may be circumstances where the Dark One cannot bring someone back.

 

So the tragic is more about being willing to kill innocents in massive scale + risk unraveling whole world if he BF'ed so much whole pattern would rip apart. But Graendal+rest who were there would be reborn in some other age normally.

[benr]

I think the three become one thing is about using Callandor with two women.  Since LTT isn't "real", the merging no longer makes much sense, imho.

 

I know the Bore wasn't necessarily a physical hole. I can't shake the feeling that he'll use Callandor as the plug, a true seal as apposed to the 7 flawed ones.  I want to see Callandor used in a physical way, not as the sa'angreal.  Maybe I've just got Dark Crystal on the brain.

 

Could be right, lillcheese.  One of the beautiful things about this stuff now is that it is "first impressions", unfiltered thoughts.  On many things, my mind will change as we go.

[Lambada]

Ive thought this over, and haven't discarded it as of yet... Rands use of balefire would be an effective way of dealing with the Dark One. Especially if you think about the Dark One being "Master of the Grave" and all. Ive had visions of Rand destroying SG with balefire and letting a huge stream fly straight into the bore as the DO emerges... That would be a pretty weak culmination of 14 books though. I think the final battle will be a game of stones, or some kind of battle of wits... The tasty battles will be of the armies clearing the way to SG for the Rand, Matt, and Perrin.. Too many theories have merit....

 

It's been stated by RJ that the amount of Balefire needed to destroy the DO would destroy the Pattern.

[Demon_AS]

I think the three become one thing is about using Callandor with two women.  Since LTT isn't "real", the merging no longer makes much sense, imho.

 

I know the Bore wasn't necessarily a physical hole. I can't shake the feeling that he'll use Callandor as the plug, a true seal as apposed to the 7 flawed ones.  I want to see Callandor used in a physical way, not as the sa'angreal.  

 

Maybe I've just got Dark Crystal on the brain.

That's a good shout, but as it was also what the characters in the book thought, I'm not so quick to accept it as the answer.

 

It's a little perverse, but I guess that's the nature of a cynical reader lol. You never believe the obvious clues in the books, and look instead for the deeper ones.

 

But other than "The Linked Circle" or "Rand's Bonds" (that's what I've decided to call both theories), I can't yet think of anything more plausible.

 

Perhaps it'll come to me in the near future.

[firstfishman]

I think the three become one thing is about using Callandor with two women.  Since LTT isn't "real", the merging no longer makes much sense, imho.

 

I know the Bore wasn't necessarily a physical hole. I can't shake the feeling that he'll use Callandor as the plug, a true seal as apposed to the 7 flawed ones.  I want to see Callandor used in a physical way, not as the sa'angreal.  

 

Maybe I've just got Dark Crystal on the brain.

That's a good shout, but as it was also what the characters in the book thought, I'm not so quick to accept it as the answer.

 

It's a little perverse, but I guess that's the nature of a cynical reader lol. You never believe the obvious clues in the books, and look instead for the deeper ones.

 

 

But other than "The Linked Circle" or "Rand's Bonds" (that's what I've decided to call both theories), I can't yet think of anything more plausible.

 

Perhaps it'll come to me in the near future.

 

 

 

The three becoming one can mean a few things... Just not sure which one.

 

1. Rand/Moridin/LTT

2. Rand linking with two women. Maybe Alivia, Egwene, Nynaeve, or any other Aes Sedai. My person feelings for this theory is Rand would link with Elayne and Aviendha. Maybe marrying them after a possible Min death?

3. Rand/Matt/Perrin.. Its allways been about the three tavereen. With Min's vision, we know that the three must be togeather to fight the shadow.

 

 

I am personally wondering about Elayne, she wasnt mentioned in the book really. There were no chapters on her at all....

Also, what is going on in the Black Tower... At the end of KoD, we are basically told that Mazrim Taim is a darkfriend. "Let the Lord of Chaos Rule" being a darkfriend saying an all. Whats going on there?

Lastly, what is this "hint about Asmodean's killer"? Were we not supposed to see one in TGS?

[tneva82]

3 will become one...

 

I believe that Avienda will sense that the Dark One's prison is, in fact, a type of ter'angreal.

 

Rand will be wielding Callandor, form a circle with Avienda and Elayne. Elayne will lead. She will create a new prison for the Dark One with her abilities creating ter'angreal.

 

The Lion Throne is "the key to victory" is she not?

 

Wasn't it royal line of Andor was key to victory? I have always had funny feeling that doesn't neccessarily refer to Elayne. Wasn't Rand's mother daughter heir of Andor? Maybe he's the one who is key to victory...

 

Prophecies don't seem to always be what they seem to say. That prophecy refering to Elayne seems...Too simple! Maybe Elaida misintepreted it big time and the key is infact Dragon Reborn who is roual line of Andor.

[Mr Ares]

I have always had funny feeling that doesn't necessarily refer to Elayne.

You and everyone else. Most people think it more likely that it refers to Rand.

[lillcheese]

Hah, just occurred to me, forgive if I'm slow, maybe the 3 become 1 is Rand, Mat & Perrin truly uniting in purpose.

 

The "hah" is for the other places that thought took my non-caffeinated mind.

[sporthogg]

"He shall hold a blade of light in his hands, and three shall become one". (Page 743 in the hardback copy, Chapter 48: "Reading the Commentary")

 

Ok, Now i agree with most of you that the most likely scenario of the 3 become one could be alluded to the linking of rand, aviendha and elayne...but for some reason, when i first read it, what jumped into my head was the Mat, Perrin, and Rand.

 

Coupled with the T'averen bending pattern theory about them manipulating the seal, to me it seems would be the more interesting way to go.

 

Now we also know that RJ has always said, what you most likely think is gonna happen will rarely happen the way you think it (or something like that)...

So this would be an interesting twist if Rand Mat and Perrin could "link" their T'averen Powers? in a way and seal the bore...

 

just a random thought.

[Lambada]

Now for a theory totally out of left field

"He shall hold a blade of light in his hands, and three shall become one"

Perhaps the three refers to Saidin Saidar and the True Power?

Combining them all for some reason (sealing the DO, or some other purpose?)

[firstfishman]

Now for a theory totally out of left field

"He shall hold a blade of light in his hands, and three shall become one"

Perhaps the three refers to Saidin Saidar and the True Power?

Combining them all for some reason (sealing the DO, or some other purpose?)

 

 

OOoooh, thats interesting indeed... Maybe Rand, Alivia, and Narishma. I believe Narishma would be the one, considering that he drew Callandor from the heart. I Dont think it would be Logain, I think Mins veiwing of him refers to him saving the black tower from Taim and his darkfriend minions..

[Bob T Dwarf]

Except that any two sex circle beyond a two person circle requires one more woman than there are men.  So, it can't be Rand, Narishma and Alivia.

[tneva82]

He was unstable for 5 minutes. Otherwise, he had it for quite a while and there were no problems.

 

He was unstable for quite a longer than that. He nearly unraveled the pattern when he took out Graendal...Who says he could control it in future? He nearly took out world in the end and possibly nearly took the world out somewhat earlier(if he had balefired seanchan's out of picture with CK...What would that do to pattern? Likely unravel it big time).

 

Otherwise... could be that a GODLIKE amount of balefire could kill the DO.

 

DO isn't physical creature to be balefired. There's nothing to be target of balefire. Therefore no. That doesn't work.

 

That power could again, also be used to solve any number of other problems... like the extermination of shadowspawn in the blight and saving countless lives.

 

And he could destroy the world while at it. It could also be stolen(as it is it is clearly in interest of DO for Rand to have CK. It was DELIBERATELY left for Rand by DO. You think DO would leave CK to Rand if Rand having it wouldn't serve interest of DO?). Care to imagine what would happen if Moridin or Demandred would come around with CK?

 

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. There IS such thing as too much power. We see it in real life without even any magic powers. CK is just way too much power for anybody.

[tneva82]

Just imagine the significance of that and just how impressive that power is:  We all knew that the Tower was meant to be attacked by the Seanchan, so that meant Tuon would have never under any circumstance acquiesced to Rand's terms for alliance.  It was just flat out written in stone and prophecy that she would have refused no matter what Rand did, because the Pattern had already written the outcome.

 

We knew it because of meta reasons ;-) Nothing in Randland says they WOULD be attacked. Egwene just Dreamed it BUT Dreaming is not same as Fortelling. Dreaming shows likely events in future but it's not 100% sure. Rand and his Ta'Veren almost caused that dreaming to come to nill(remember that Ta'Veren doesn't make anybody do what he/she would never do without it. If Ta'Veren effect almost caused Tuon to sign treaty and ergo not attack WT then there was slight chance of her doing that even without Ta'Veren effect)..

[Demon_AS]

I think the three become one thing is about using Callandor with two women.  Since LTT isn't "real", the merging no longer makes much sense, imho.

 

I know the Bore wasn't necessarily a physical hole. I can't shake the feeling that he'll use Callandor as the plug, a true seal as apposed to the 7 flawed ones.  I want to see Callandor used in a physical way, not as the sa'angreal.  

 

Maybe I've just got Dark Crystal on the brain.

That's a good shout, but as it was also what the characters in the book thought, I'm not so quick to accept it as the answer.

 

It's a little perverse, but I guess that's the nature of a cynical reader lol. You never believe the obvious clues in the books, and look instead for the deeper ones.

 

 

But other than "The Linked Circle" or "Rand's Bonds" (that's what I've decided to call both theories), I can't yet think of anything more plausible.

 

Perhaps it'll come to me in the near future.

 

 

 

The three becoming one can mean a few things... Just not sure which one.

 

1. Rand/Moridin/LTT

2. Rand linking with two women. Maybe Alivia, Egwene, Nynaeve, or any other Aes Sedai. My person feelings for this theory is Rand would link with Elayne and Aviendha. Maybe marrying them after a possible Min death?

3. Rand/Matt/Perrin.. Its allways been about the three tavereen. With Min's vision, we know that the three must be togeather to fight the shadow.

 

 

I am personally wondering about Elayne, she wasnt mentioned in the book really. There were no chapters on her at all....

Also, what is going on in the Black Tower... At the end of KoD, we are basically told that Mazrim Taim is a darkfriend. "Let the Lord of Chaos Rule" being a darkfriend saying an all. Whats going on there?

Lastly, what is this "hint about Asmodean's killer"? Were we not supposed to see one in TGS?

Maybe Verin killed Asmodean ;).

 

As to your suggestions, I think I agree with them, in the main. Although the three ta'veren combining into one body seems a little implausible, so if it is them, it would be a metaphysical link.