Perrin's journey to the two rivers.

[moroten]

I dont remember who had the conversation about how much one can alter your destiny within the pattern, a farmer have some controll of his life but not enough to set himself up as a king unless the pattern wanted him to, or something close to this summary :P.

 

Now we have something tugging at Perrin and Mat to join Rand all the time it seems and Mat seems more than stuck in it, is this the patterns will or something else? Did the pattern want Perrin to journey to the two rivers, because if it didn't a blacksmith became something alot more than just a blacksmith. Of course this isn't proof of anything I just found it interesting, any thoughts?

[Yorkie]

I may be wrong be the quote about the farmer was with Mo and Rand...

 

Its all the pattern and being Tav'eran so Perrin is more than a mere Blacksmith whether he likes it or not ...

[moroten]

I may be wrong be the quote about the farmer was with Mo and Rand...

 

Its all the pattern and being Tav'eran so Perrin is more than a mere Blacksmith whether he likes it or not ...

 

Yes but according to that conversation a Ta´veran has even less room of controll in his life. So you are saying that Perrin was meant to go to the two rivers?

[kasper11]

Yes, he was meant to be something more than a blacksmith.  His tav'eranness manifests itself by people following him.  He is supposed to be a leader, just like Matt is supposed to be a leader, although people follow them for different reasons.

[moroten]

Yes, he was meant to be something more than a blacksmith.  His tav'eranness manifests itself by people following him.  He is supposed to be a leader, just like Matt is supposed to be a leader, although people follow them for different reasons.

 

Which has nothing to do with what I asked...

[Yorkie]

I may be wrong be the quote about the farmer was with Mo and Rand...

 

Its all the pattern and being Tav'eran so Perrin is more than a mere Blacksmith whether he likes it or not ...

 

Yes but according to that conversation a Ta´veran has even less room of controll in his life. So you are saying that Perrin was meant to go to the two rivers?

 

Sorry only had time for a quick response on my lunch, but yes that was the basics of what I was getting at that Perrin was meant to go to the Two Rivers. Its where he got his first men to fight for him, its the place where he is tested and its also the place that he matures into what he has now become.

 

The whole TR is the major thing that defines what Perrin is now.

 

You could also look at it from other perspectives, Rand could not go becuase that was one of the questions he asked the finn. The answer he got was something on the lines that if he went then he would be doomed so to speak.

 

Mat could not go, because he was fated to meet the finn again..

 

So it fell to Perrin ..

 

 

[moroten]

I may be wrong be the quote about the farmer was with Mo and Rand...

 

Its all the pattern and being Tav'eran so Perrin is more than a mere Blacksmith whether he likes it or not ...

 

Yes but according to that conversation a Ta´veran has even less room of controll in his life. So you are saying that Perrin was meant to go to the two rivers?

 

Sorry only had time for a quick response on my lunch, but yes that was the basics of what I was getting at that Perrin was meant to go to the Two Rivers. Its where he got his first men to fight for him, its the place where he is tested and its also the place that he matures into what he has now become.

 

The whole TR is the major thing that defines what Perrin is now.

 

You could also look at it from other perspectives, Rand could not go becuase that was one of the questions he asked the finn. The answer he got was something on the lines that if he went then he would be doomed so to speak.

 

Mat could not go, because he was fated to meet the finn again..

 

So it fell to Perrin ..

 

 

 

But would Mat have gone if he hadnt choose to enter the doorway?

 

And thats what Im getting at with Perrin, he went mainly for the duty and that no one else could go to the two rivers, he also mentioned that he had hundreds of reasons not to go just like Mat, but he choose to ignore those. Maybe the pattern wanted him to go. But the pattern have made him taveren aswell as Rand and Mat, and something tugs at both Mat and Perrin all the time to join up with Rand, thats because he is the stronger taveren by far something the pattern has made him. A conclusion can be made that the pattern made all those hundres of reasons for Perrin to stay and follow Rand but that somehow Perrin managed to sidestep that.

 

If Perrin had gone maybe the Shaido incident would have gone differently because that was what he meant to do. This is just speculation but to further explain my point.

[Alternate34]

It's possible that Perrin resisted the pul of ta'veren when returning to the Two Rivers, but it seems that the style of writing indicates otherwise.  Mat had trouble even speaking words to the effect of I'm leaving to Thom.  Perrin has no problem with that.  Mat has a thousand reasons to leave but ends up staying, Perrin has a thousand reasons to stay but ends up leaving.  It seems that are both being pulled by the Pattern, but Mat is being pulled to Rand and Perrin to the Two Rivers.

[Mashiara Sedai]

When Perrin leaves, he needs to fight the pull of ta'veren to do so.  I think people confuse that with going against the pattern.  Alternate34 is right, if Perrin wasn't meant to go to the Two Rivers, he never could have said he would go.  Mat couldn't say it, so he couldn't go.  Even though it was meant to happen in the pattern, the pull of ta'veren (Mat and Rand together) made it difficult for Perrin to leave.

 

Like when Mat gets up the courage to leave in Fires of Heaven.  He is supposed to help with the fight against the Shaido, but he runs off instead.  Again, this is what the pattern wanted.  He wouldn't have been able to leave if the pattern hadn't wanted him to run.  And we see that him running away is what got him his Band of the Red Hand, a very important thing later in the story.

 

It's tricky to understand sometimes, but nothing happens in the pattern unless it's supposed to.  Otherwise, this world would be just another portal stone world that might have been.  We all know it isn't.

 

 

~Mashiara

[mb]

The conversation I take to be one of the ones between Loial & Rand (Eye of World).

 

[Mr. Micawber]

Um, Perrin explicitly tried to go back to Rand after the Sword in the Stone incident.

 

The fact he didn't was that he basically slapped up his horse to go crazy and race away thru the Waygate.

 

Thus the horse carried him out.

 

I'm pretty sure that if he had still been afoot, he would have found himself rushing back to join Rand.

[moroten]

When Perrin leaves, he needs to fight the pull of ta'veren to do so.  I think people confuse that with going against the pattern.  Alternate34 is right, if Perrin wasn't meant to go to the Two Rivers, he never could have said he would go.  Mat couldn't say it, so he couldn't go.  Even though it was meant to happen in the pattern, the pull of ta'veren (Mat and Rand together) made it difficult for Perrin to leave.

 

Like when Mat gets up the courage to leave in Fires of Heaven.  He is supposed to help with the fight against the Shaido, but he runs off instead.  Again, this is what the pattern wanted.  He wouldn't have been able to leave if the pattern hadn't wanted him to run.  And we see that him running away is what got him his Band of the Red Hand, a very important thing later in the story.

 

It's tricky to understand sometimes, but nothing happens in the pattern unless it's supposed to.  Otherwise, this world would be just another portal stone world that might have been.  We all know it isn't.

 

 

~Mashiara

 

Wrong, people still got some leeway with the pattern as proof of the conversation I posted about in the beginning, taveren has less of this but still got some. But one should also remember that it is the pattern that made Rand, Perrin, Mat taveren, so the tugging of Mat and Perrin to Rand can be seen as the patterns will.

 

@Alternate34, actually a very good observation, didnt think of it in that way, might be right.

[Yorkie]

Sorry, this post is made when im slightly intoxicated, so dont take any offence, none is intended :)

 

ok to the crux of the "Wrong People" comment, moroten. What is exactly wrong with my surmise? Is it not totally plausible and more likely than what has be posted before. Does it not also fit in with what RJ has written?  Or are you digging at something "greater" than the perceivable? Like does Perrin have a choice and, the the simple answer would be no. A complete open and shut case, as proven by the Mat argument not being able to go any where apart from following Rand.

 

[moroten]

Sorry, this post is made when im slightly intoxicated, so dont take any offence, none is intended :)

 

ok to the crux of the "Wrong People" comment, moroten. What is exactly wrong with my surmise? Is it not totally plausible and more likely than what has be posted before. Does it not also fit in with what RJ has written?  Or are you digging at something "greater" than the perceivable? Like does Perrin have a choice and, the the simple answer would be no. A complete open and shut case, as proven by the Mat argument not being able to go any where apart from following Rand.

 

 

Sry if I went harsh on you there, what I meant was wrong was that the pattern had total controll of events and that nothing happened unless it wanted it to, that was the point I argued against. Yes Mat's case can be seen as proof of Perrin's journey was supposed to happen, but what I argue for is that Perrin's journey wasnt supposed to happen but rather the tugging of the taveren was supposed to happen and that Perrin managed to sidestep that. And there doesnt seem to be enough proof to either contradict that statement or prove it, which makes me a sad panda.

[Yorkie]

Sorry, this post is made when im slightly intoxicated, so dont take any offence, none is intended :)

 

ok to the crux of the "Wrong People" comment, moroten. What is exactly wrong with my surmise? Is it not totally plausible and more likely than what has be posted before. Does it not also fit in with what RJ has written?  Or are you digging at something "greater" than the perceivable? Like does Perrin have a choice and, the the simple answer would be no. A complete open and shut case, as proven by the Mat argument not being able to go any where apart from following Rand.

 

...but what I argue for is that Perrin's journey wasn't supposed to happen but rather the tugging of the taveren was supposed to happen ...

 

But the Taveren tugging draws in this context towards Rands and the need to be around him. The pattern is somthing that has already be woven therefore Perrin was destined/ preordained (for want of a better word) to sort out to problems in the TR..

[Beren]

If the Wheel needs something it will work to accomplish this. I think Perrin was meant to go to the Two Rivers, but perhaps not to stay away from Rand for so long.