What Do YOU Think Are The Most MISunderstood Concepts In The Series By Readers?

[The Fisher King]

Guys that are DEBATING HOW LONG FORSAKEN WERE LOOSE:

 

Gang!!! It aint Hard lol!!! The end of book 1 at the actual Eye itself makes it clear because of Aginor and Balthamael's presence there!!! Its obvious they are very recently outed.

 

Ishamael was first (never really trapped) - then came Balth and Ag - then the others after that!

 

Fish

[Bob T Dwarf]

Nope.

 

Other facts do not support that presumption.  They've all been awake and active for awhile before the series starts.

[Mr. Micawber]

Do you imagine "Anath" sprang full grown from the brow of Zeus?

 

Semirhage had to awaken, get used to being alive again, learn the language, scout out where she wanted to establish herself, learn the customs and then finally engineer a way to introduce "Anath" into the higher reaches of Seanchan society.  Once established she then had to single-out Neferi and arrange for her to "accidentally" fall down those stairs and die.  Then she had to engineer her appointment over that of Neferi's understudy.  All without getting caught or even being suspected in spite of Watchers and Seekers and Gardeners and sul'dam and damane and whatever hidden powers the Empress herself possessed.

 

Not even Semirhage could manage all of that in 15 minutes.  It took a good deal of time to accomplish.  And, all of that time before EoTW starts.

 

Why? The other Forsaken put themselves in positions of power in a two year time frame as well.

 

Two years ago, freed, within two years, position of power.

 

However, I do recall someone mentioning that Elan Morin must have had a seminar or something, like say, "The last four thousand or so years for Dummies"

 

Moreover, they did speak the language.

 

RJ said that the current tongue is a simplified version of the Old Tongue, an up-jumped pidgin or Age of Legends Ebonics or something, that was really easy for them to understand.

[Bob T Dwarf]

As Fish points out ( which was confirmed by Jordan ) Aginor and Balthamel were the first to awaken.  We don't meet them until the end of EoTW.  Yet, "Anath" was already in-place as Tuon's Truthspeaker before the series starts, so Semirhage has to have been active for some time before that.  So, whatever people may think, Aginor and Balthamel were not newly awakened when we meet them.

 

Jordan tried to create a cause-and-effect universe filled with ordinary, easily recognizable people, some of whom just happen to have extraordinary abilities.

 

None are gods or even demigods.  None can wave their hand and magically reorder things.  They have to learn their way, and then fit themselves in.  Once they've done that they can begin to manipulate their way to power.  They can't instantly become Mr/Ms Big Cheese.

 

That takes time and preparation.  All of which back-story the author spared us from.

[Germs]

As Fish points out ( which was confirmed by Jordan ) Aginor and Balthamel were the first to awaken.  We don't meet them until the end of EoTW.  Yet, "Anath" was already in-place as Tuon's Truthspeaker before the series starts, so Semirhage has to have been active for some time before that.  So, whatever people may think, Aginor and Balthamel were not newly awakened when we meet them.

 

Jordan tried to create a cause-and-effect universe filled with ordinary, easily recognizable people, some of whom just happen to have extraordinary abilities.

 

None are gods or even demigods.  None can wave their hand and magically reorder things.  They have to learn their way, and then fit themselves in.  Once they've done that they can begin to manipulate their way to power.  They can't instantly become Mr/Ms Big Cheese.

 

That takes time and preparation.  All of which back-story the author spared us from.

 

Not gods, but powerful channelers from the age of legends.

With inverted weaves, the power to mask the ability to channel, and a little (or a lot) of compulsion, the Forsaken can pretty much do whatever they want, and pretty quickly.  Besides:

Deep-sunken eyes burned at him from that drawn parchment face; somehow, it seemed less withered than before, more fleshed, as if Aginor had fed well on something.

 

This suggests that a.: Aginor did something to Moiraine when he was torturing her to heal himself, b. some unknown, random influence healed him, or c.: he is slowly recovering automatically from his time sealed in the Bore. C. seems the most likely. A. is almost possible, but if there was some secret way to heal yourself, we'd have heard of it somewhere else by KoD. B. is just there so i'm not saying these are the only two options in existence. We are left with c. He is automatically healing maybe just by being out of the bore. This in turn suggests that he recently was freed from the bore, or, at the apparent rate, he'd be fully healed.

 

Maybe there's some other reason he's healing and I'll look stupid. Fits well in a misunderstood concepts thread. But this is how I interpreted it.

 

 

[Mr. Micawber]

Germs, the Eye of the World, at least, was definitely healing him. He was sucking it in to heal his broken body, and this turned out to be a major no-no.

[Germs]

Germs, the Eye of the World, at least, was definitely healing him. He was sucking it in to heal his broken body, and this turned out to be a major no-no.

 

Thank you. Told you I'd look stupid. Don't hurt me Bob.

 

But having compulsion would still let the Forsaken set up pretty quickly.

[Bob T Dwarf]

 

Not gods, but powerful channelers from the age of legends.

With inverted weaves, the power to mask the ability to channel, and a little (or a lot) of compulsion, the Forsaken can pretty much do whatever they want, and pretty quickly.  

 

Indeed.  And that explains how all of them were able to reach positions of authority quickly once they'd decided where to set-up shop.

 

But, they still had to learn the ground first.  Probably recruit their own Darkfriend networks and private spies.  And, that took time.

 

Aginor and Balthamel, being as wasted as they were, didn't fit in anywhere, so tracking Mat to the Eye was probably their first operational sortie.

[Blackhoof]

Compulsion can only get you so far. You can only compel one or two people a time, and sooner or later peole are going to start questioning how this person that no-one has ever heard of rose to a position of power so quickly. Rahvin was smart because he not only didn't seize power openly, he provided a reason for him to be close to morgase.

[Mr. Dragon]

 

Not gods, but powerful channelers from the age of legends.

With inverted weaves, the power to mask the ability to channel, and a little (or a lot) of compulsion, the Forsaken can pretty much do whatever they want, and pretty quickly. 

 

Indeed.  And that explains how all of them were able to reach positions of authority quickly once they'd decided where to set-up shop.

 

But, they still had to learn the ground first.  Probably recruit their own Darkfriend networks and private spies.  And, that took time.

 

Aginor and Balthamel, being as wasted as they were, didn't fit in anywhere, so tracking Mat to the Eye was probably their first operational sortie.

 

Do you really think that the forasken who had done nothing for about 3000 years would decide after getting out to do detailed reconasonce about where they set up? Sure they probably did a bit, some more than others, but I would think that they would move pretty quickly to acheive their first goal, be that gaining power or hiding inconspicously. After setting up a base of operations then they would contact pre-existing darkfriend groups .

[Bob T Dwarf]

Ummmm, what pre-existing DF groups?  They didn't just take a catnap, they've been out of it for 3000 years.  The landscape is entirely different.  There are mountains where there used to be plains.  Oceans where there used to be countries.  Nobody they knew is alive anymore.  Who's in charge?  Where do they go?  Who do they contact?  Who can they trust?  Certainly not each other and very definitely not Ishamael.  Nor any group Ishy would point them toward.

 

They can't exactly stroll into Boots R Us in their AoL togs, whip out their Bank of Paren Disen Mastercard and pickup a new pair of boots, because there is no Boots R Us and nobody in the here-and-now understands plastic, and boots are custom made not out-of-a-box.  First they've gotta find some poor schmuck to kill to steal his clothes, then they've gotta rob some folks to get Randland money, and then they've gotta get measured for everything and wait until enough clothing gets made that they can blend in and move around without attracting a crowd.

 

Reconnaissance, including a lot of time spying on each other.  Planning. Execution.  Time, time and more time.

[Mr. Micawber]

Joe Al'Shmoe's Boots and More Emporium!

 

Hey there! Are you a member of a group kept in permanent stasis for over three thousand years? Need a replacement for that streith gown or a tune up for those athletic shoes?

 

Then buck up, because have we got a deal for YOU!

 

It's got Boots!

 

And More!

 

Hi, I'm Joe Al'Shmoe, and I've got years experience equipping the up and coming Third Ager with the finest boots, silk shirts, embroidered coats, fine woolspun dresses, and fool proof instant disguises great for manipulating yourself into a position of power in *any* situation.

 

But don't believe me, just look at my customers' own words!

 

Elan Morin says "Without Joe Al'Shmoe's Boots and More Emporium, I'd have been up a narrow fast running body of excrement-based liquid for over three thousand years. But with Joe's help, I've been running things from Trolloc hordes to Hawkwing's empire! Thanks, Joe!"

 

So Come On Down! To Joe Al'Shmoe's Boots and More Emporium!

 

 

[Bob T Dwarf]

That Joe al'Schmoe.  What a smooth talker.  Good marketing scheme, too.  He'll go far.  Gonna be a rich man someday...

[Alghar Khan]

Better to use Illusion and feel the cool breeze.  ;D

 

 

[Bob T Dwarf]

Unless you run into Cadsuane.  Might do more than feel the cool breeze, then.

[Mr. Dragon]

Ummmm, what pre-existing DF groups?  

Black ajah for 1.

[Mr.Big]

 

 

They've all been awake and active for awhile before the series starts.

I think this is correct.

It's either they were active before the start of the series or Jordan just changed his mind about having the Forsaken breaking out during EotW.

[Blackhoof]

Those are both plausible theories.

[Mr Ares]

If Rand was entirely insane bhe would be running around blowing stuff up

Madness comes in many forms. Rand is clearly mad.

[Blackhoof]

The madness does come in many forms, but it all inevitably, one way or another, leads to them running around blowing stuff up or otherwise becoming a danger to others around them. Rand is clearly a little loopy, but he has not fully slipped into dementia.

[Agitel]

Rand's a bit touched in the head, but not all out mad. He still knows who he is and recognizes the people around him, and I think he could actually learn to cope better with some help from a psychologist... lol.

 

As for misconceptions, I have to say about the nature of the wheel, how many ages there are (seven), and all of that junk. I too often hear people saying that the Age of Legends will start up after this, or that this is one full cycle of the wheel from the AoL (instead of 3/7), etc...

 

[Mr Ares]

The madness does come in many forms, but it all inevitably, one way or another, leads to them running around blowing stuff up or otherwise

In your opinion.

[Blackhoof]

In my opinion? IN MY OPINION! *pulls hair out in frustration* Are you even reading the same books as me! What have male channelers been doing for the past 3000 years? Making cookies? No, they've been going insane and killing heaps of people, do you deny that? You probably would. How is that MY opinion?

[Mr Ares]

What have male channelers been doing for the past 3000 years?

Getting gentled by Reds (or killed, in the rest of the world. Good work on the part of the AS for once!). Other than that, going insane in a variety of ways. Going insane does not automatically equate to blowing stuff up.

[Blackhoof]

 

Going insane does not automatically equate to blowing stuff up.

 

Going insane from the taint inevitably does, though, either that or sinking everything in earth. Even Fedwinns child mind insanity would be dangerous if he chucked a hissy-fit. For 300 years after the breaking, the AS tried to find a way to cure or stop the madness, but they failed. If the men were all non-violent crazies, then that would have been fine. But they weren't. The taint droves all male channelers violently, irreversibly, horribly insane.