The Dark One winning impossible?

[Blackhoof]

If that is true, then how come it has been stated that he wants to "remake the pattern in his own image". Unless his own image is nothing. What will he do once he's destroyed the wheel and killed its inhabitants? Victory dance?  :)

 

DO: All right! I've destroyed the world and all my servants! *does a merry jig* Oh yeah! Go me! I'm genocidal! I'm genocidal! Yeah! Oh yeah! Boogie! Do the Shadowboogie! na na na na, nananana cant touch this! na na na na cat touch this yeah!... Ok.... what do I do now?

 

In my opinion, he plans to break free and pervert reality to the degree that it could be considered destroyed. And he would kill the Serpent and break the wheel so that it never changes. Time will stop proceeding; the world will still be the same, as in people will move around, and the world will be in his own image; a perfect, serene landscape of fire and horror, with things like the dead walking, people spewing bugs, and corridors changing would be a daily occurence. Reality will be warped and constantly twisting. It would be utter chaos, just how the DO likes it.

[OptimusPrime]

If that is true, then how come it has been stated that he wants to "remake the pattern in his own image". Unless his own image is nothing. What will he do once he's destroyed the wheel and killed its inhabitants? Victory dance?  :)

 

DO: All right! I've destroyed the world and all my servants! *does a merry jig* Oh yeah! Go me! I'm genocidal! I'm genocidal! Yeah! Oh yeah! Boogie! Do the Shadowboogie! na na na na, nananana cant touch this! na na na na cat touch this yeah!... Ok.... what do I do now?

 

In my opinion, he plans to break free and pervert reality to the degree that it could be considered destroyed. And he would kill the Serpent and break the wheel so that it never changes. Time will stop proceeding; the world will still be the same, as in people will move around, and the world will be in his own image; a perfect, serene landscape of fire and horror, with things like the dead walking, people spewing bugs, and corridors changing would be a daily occurence. Reality will be warped and constantly twisting. It would be utter chaos, just how the DO likes it.

 

Couldnt have said it better myself

[Swigaro]

If that is true, then how come it has been stated that he wants to "remake the pattern in his own image". Unless his own image is nothing. What will he do once he's destroyed the wheel and killed its inhabitants? Victory dance?  :)

 

His followers, with the exception of Moridin/Ishamael believe the DO wants to remake the pattern in his own image.  Heck, the DO may even have told some of his followers that.  I just don't believe it.  I have always believed that the DO intends to destroy everything the Creator built, and will tell his followers whatever they need to hear to get the job done.  That, to me, is what makes Moridin/Ishy such a fascinating character.  He figured it out, and chooses to follow anyway.  As far as what to do next?  Move on to the next world the creator made?

[Mr. Micawber]

Elan Morin called for the destruction of everything when he declared his allegiance to the Big Guy publicly.

 

That's how he got his mean old name first, as Betrayer of Hope, because he was one of the leading intellectuals.

 

The man's a nihilist and wants the destruction of everything. That's why the other Chosen think he's Chiroptera Fecal Matter crazy. The irony is that the supposed crazy guy is the only one sane, or at least aware of, what the Big Guy's actual plans for the world are.

[Bob T Dwarf]

As Jordan, himself, said, what the DO would end up doing is the BIG question.  How much can the Forsaken trust anything the DO has told them?

 

They're all delusional.  They only see and believe what they want to see and believe.  We can't trust any of them when it comes to how they expect things to go.

[OptimusPrime]

If that is true, then how come it has been stated that he wants to "remake the pattern in his own image". Unless his own image is nothing. What will he do once he's destroyed the wheel and killed its inhabitants? Victory dance?  :)

 

His followers, with the exception of Moridin/Ishamael believe the DO wants to remake the pattern in his own image.  Heck, the DO may even have told some of his followers that.  I just don't believe it.  I have always believed that the DO intends to destroy everything the Creator built, and will tell his followers whatever they need to hear to get the job done.  

 

Yet you base that idea on the meakest foundation. The Dark One is evil, that is all you base that on. Yeah, sure, hes the Father of Lies. That does NOT mean he cannot tell the truth. Yes we have seen him manipulate Demandred with promises of Nae'blis, but that is not a lie; the Dark One is ensuring that his strongest remain competitive, that is all. If Moridin somehow falls from Top Spot the Dark One wants to be sure he can appoint someone worthy of the title. So he tells them whatever they want for that.

 

This kind of discussion reeeeally makes me wish RJ called the Creator something else.

[crazyfool]

Since the wheel has spun the same ages over and over again the logical conclusion is that if it is possible for the DO to win then it has happened. There is no way that the dragon defeated the DO a million times in a row.

 

I think that it is possible for him to win because other wise there would be no point to the books and no point in the DO trying to break free, he would just stop trying. I think that he has gained control in the past and shaped the world to his image and that mankind managed to regain controll and reseal him. Or else the creator stepped in and put a stop to things.

 

After all we have no idea what happens from ages 4-end.

[OptimusPrime]

He may have broken free in some distant turning of the Wheel, who knows? The Creator might have intervened, or the Dragon might have been turned to the Shadow and then turned back and put him away again.

[mb]

Since the wheel has spun the same ages over and over again the logical conclusion is that if it is possible for the DO to win then it has happened. There is no way that the dragon defeated the DO a million times in a row.

A finite number (which a million is one) of repetitions in a row, that is actually possible; though less likely (but not impossible) the higher the finite number gets.  Probability plays a role in this.

 

[crazyfool]

Since the wheel has spun the same ages over and over again the logical conclusion is that if it is possible for the DO to win then it has happened. There is no way that the dragon defeated the DO a million times in a row.

A finite number (which a million is one) of repetitions in a row, that is actually possible; though less likely (but not impossible) the higher the finite number gets.  Probability plays a role in this.

 

 

Im not saying its impossible that the dragon defeated the DO that many times in a row but the probability is so small as to be almost impossible. Its not like the DO is some pathetic enemy that Rand will have no problem defeating.

[Nightstrike]

The Wheel is working for the Light. The DO might even need the Dragon for the final victory. Maybe he'll win eventually, but I really don't think he has won/broken free yet.

 

 

 

[crazyfool]

The Wheel is working for the Light. The DO might even need the Dragon for the final victory. Maybe he'll win eventually, but I really don't think he has won/broken free yet.

 

 

 

 

No the wheel isn't working for the light, it is impartial. Moraine even says when explaining Ta'avern that there is just as many bad random events and good ones because the wheel doesn't favor light or dark.

[Nightstrike]

Well, the Wheel uses ta'veren and other things as corrective mechanisms. The Creator installed the Wheel. It's like the most advanced computer that can be imagined. It makes choices on behalf of the Light. It works for the Light to maintain the Pattern and the turning of Ages. The DO wants to destroy the Wheel and time itself.

 

 

[crazyfool]

The wheel also spins out the lives of the forsaken, if it worked for the light why doesn't it just erase the forsaken's thread? Do you have any examples of it making choices on behalf of the light?

[Nightstrike]

What other interest (besides the Light's) did the Creator have with the Wheel?

[crazyfool]

How am I supposed to know why the creator made the world as he did? How do you even know the creator made the wheel? 

[Ahaz Flagg]

What other interest (besides the Light's) did the Creator have with the Wheel?

 

Well explain how all of those items killing people at the Aes Sedai camp worked for the light. Expalin how that Trader being sucked into the ground worked for the light.  Expalin how The

white Tower, and Elayne's palace changing works for the light.  these are bubbles from the wheel. they serve no purpose that would help the light.  The wheel is just the wheel.  :)

[Nightstrike]

The wheel is just the wheel.  :)

The Wheel is everything. It's all worlds, all possible realities and it's even time itself. Only things outside the Wheel is the DO and the Creator. Besides that, the Wheel is also the most advanced computer anyone can imagine. It makes decisions on super-advanced levels.

 

 

[Nightstrike]

How do you even know the creator made the wheel? 

He is the Creator. The DO certainly didn't make the Wheel.

[mb]

The wheel also spins out the lives of the forsaken

Right now that is only speculation.

 

[crazyfool]

How do you even know the creator made the wheel? 

He is the Creator. The DO certainly didn't make the Wheel.

 

Ok I'm going to repeat myself, how do you know the creator made the wheel.

[Nightstrike]

Ok I'm going to repeat myself, how do you know the creator made the wheel.

I've answered that with the last few posts that I wrote in this thread. The Creator created the Wheel, hence the name "the Creator". The Dark One wants to destroy the Wheel. The DO is the dark counterpart to the Creator. Only things outside the Wheel are the DO and the Creator. The Wheel is everything else.

[Jaric Mar Tedronai]

The wheel also spins out the lives of the forsaken

Right now that is only speculation.

 

 

That isn't speculation. Whenever someone is born in the traditional sense, aka from a woman, not a transmigration of a soul, they are spun out by the wheel into the pattern as a thread in it. The forsaken are no different when they are born, it is the choices they made in life which made them forsaken, but their souls started out like anyone else. I'm sure that in every turning, in every age where mankind has discovered the ability to channel, some of these men and women choose to serve the dark one, and they become the 'forsaken' as we know them, although they may be called something else.

 

Now, I realized about halfway thru typing this that you may have meant their souls are marked (like the heroes) and spun out purposely each turning, then i apologize as this theory has not, to my knowledge, been proven or dis-proven, and hence is speculation. I personally do not think this holds any merit, but maybe.

[crazyfool]

The DO is the dark counterpart to the Creator. Only things outside the Wheel are the DO and the Creator. The Wheel is everything else.

 

Okay you just contradicted what you were saying earlier about the wheel being for the light.

[Nightstrike]

The Wheel (as in "the super-computer" that makes all the decisions) works by helping the Ligth's side maintain the normal spinning of the Wheel (as in "the thing/whatever that spins out the Lace of Ages").