So Yoda, Cadsuane, Quigon and Moraine are all in a room.....

[bladeof5winds]

ok, here we have it.

 

First the Jedi: a monolithic order dedicated to only tangetially interfering in the poltics of a universe in which they are supposed to be its defenders and servants. The Jedi are an ancient order with lots of creepy traditions, secret rules and ways of operating that piss people off.

 

Then we have the Aes Sedai: A monolithic order dedicated to only tangetially interfering in the politics of a world in which they are by name supposed to be its servants. The Aes Sedai are a nancient order with lots of creepy traditions, secret rules nad ways of operating that piss people off.

 

Indeed the only difference between these two groups is that the Jedi lie about EVERYTHING, in fact it appears that if you don't lie as a matter of principle you won't cut it as a Jedi while the Aes Sedai must lie by omission.

 

So who do you think would drive the other group insane first: the jedi or the Aes Sedai? If you stuck the characters in the thread title in a room together who do you think would be the first to attempt to kill one of the others?

 

*** Spoiler ***

Also as a related point: Is it possible to write a fantasy story that doesn't use at least one element taken from star wars? I mean Rand losing a hand? Come on, as if he wasn't already similar enough to Anikin Whinewalker anyway! Not that I don't still love these novels, it must just be very hard to not do something that hasn't already been done in starwars somewhere

[Kadere]

My money's on Yoda being the first go crazy, that guy's always been a pent up ball of rage.

 

As for the *******SPOILER******** George Lucas wasn't the first person to ever cut off the hand of a main character (in fact he ran out of his own idea and had to use it for both of his Skywalkers), Rand's losing of his hand has more in common with the Norse god Tyr losing his hand. He actually has a lot in common with that god. Lucas just ripped off a lot of mythology, religion, and samuria movies, it's just RJ's dumb luck to have to follow after.

[Jedimuppet]

My money's on Yoda being the first go crazy, that guy's always been a pent up ball of rage.

 

As for the *******SPOILER******** George Lucas wasn't the first person to ever cut off the hand of a main character (in fact he ran out of his own idea and had to use it for both of his Skywalkers), Rand's losing of his hand has more in common with the Norse god Tyr losing his hand. He actually has a lot in common with that god. Lucas just ripped off a lot of mythology, religion, and samuria movies, it's just RJ's dumb luck to have to follow after.

 

Lucas does sometimes use pretty hokey imagery and symbolism, but in this case, I don't think he was reusing an idea as much as trying to show how the two prequels are almost two versions of the same story, tying it in with the whole "circle is complete" stuff.

 

He's always honored the mythological roots of what he's written, and has completely come clean about wanting to reproduce the serial sci fi feeling of things like Flash Gordon. Joseph Campbell has written about star wars in a number of his mythological books. I love all of it, from Campbell to Lucas to Jung; those guys spent a lot of brain cells on make-believe. Just shows how important it is.

J

[bladeof5winds]

Ok,

 

I understand the mythological underpinnings of RJ's series. It is very good, he is indeed a modern day tolkien, because like the big T he has done his homework and has used elements from classic mythology well while retaining the essential themes and elements.

 

Addtionally, Lucas did combine lots of older concepts. However, if you are going to give Tolkien and Jordan credit for their work then Lucas gets full credit as well. He was the first to work his group of mytholgoies into a coherent whole. It is disengeous to act like starwars would have come about without its driving force as well. It is indeed bad luck that all modern sci-fi and fantasy has to stand in the shadow of the monolith, but it does and that is where my comment that it must be HARD to not reuse a concept that got snagged into that story fits in. It has been said before that nothing new has been written in (depending on the speaker) 500 or more years.

[Jedimuppet]

Ok,

 

I understand the mythological underpinnings of RJ's series. It is very good, he is indeed a modern day tolkien, because like the big T he has done his homework and has used elements from classic mythology well while retaining the essential themes and elements.

 

Addtionally, Lucas did combine lots of older concepts. However, if you are going to give Tolkien and Jordan credit for their work then Lucas gets full credit as well. He was the first to work his group of mytholgoies into a coherent whole. It is disengeous to act like starwars would have come about without its driving force as well. It is indeed bad luck that all modern sci-fi and fantasy has to stand in the shadow of the monolith, but it does and that is where my comment that it must be HARD to not reuse a concept that got snagged into that story fits in. It has been said before that nothing new has been written in (depending on the speaker) 500 or more years.

 

I think that for the most part, they should all get credit. We are constantly reprocessing old story elements into new ones. That's how are conciousness works, and good storytellers know that. They shouldn't be penalized for playing to that.

J

[bratr]

Hey if every writer had to go through all literature in the world to have an original piece of work it would take forever

[Jedimuppet]

Hey if every writer had to go through all literature in the world to have an original piece of work it would take forever

 

That wasn't the point being discussed, though. I think it would be closer to the point if you were to say something like:

 

"Hey if every reader wanted an entirely original piece of work, he would have to go through all literaure in the world, and it would take forever."

 

I think a good analogy would be music. Take an extremely talented musician, and tell them to play you a song that doesn't sound like any other song ever written.

 

They won't be able to.

J

[Kadere]

hmmmmm... I don't know if that's true. New genres of music are created practically every decade. You had your classic, and then your jazz, and then your Rock, and then your techno, and then your rap, and so on. As techonology advices music adapts to fit that technology and becomes something different. Authors on the other hand can't create intirely different stories from any other story ever because the human imagination, while vast, can't be expanded by anything but the human who imagens.

[Jedimuppet]

hmmmmm... I don't know if that's true. New genres of music are created practically every decade. You had your classic, and then your jazz, and then your Rock, and then your techno, and then your rap, and so on. As techonology advices music adapts to fit that technology and becomes something different. Authors on the other hand can't create intirely different stories from any other story ever because the human imagination, while vast, can't be expanded by anything but the human who imagens.

 

I'm positive it's true. I wasn't referencing genre. All I'm saying is that after all the development we've done, there is nothing new under the sun. Sure, there are things we haven't heard before, and maybe somebody learned how to produce a tone out of a computer that sounds new, but it will still have a root, a mode, a key, etc..

 

If you think rap for instance is entirely new, I'd urge you to check out some of the drum rhythms that have been going on in africa for thousands of years.

 

I think we're more impressed with our "originality" than is merited. There truly is an art involved in recycling older elements with newer ideas for the progress of art.

 

But to back it up and make it more personal, I've never heard any music that could be called entirely original. First of all, at leaast for western music, we've been using the same staff and note system for a thousand years or so. YOu can't go too far with that; you only have seven notes to play with....you go ahead and figure out how many ways there are to combine seven notes, but I'll clue you in: it's not infinite.

J

[merlinspetrock]

I didnt read the whole thing, but as you are talking star wars, I thought Id post this little thing. Kind of how I wished episode three was.

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-549926913023676179

[Hoop Snake]

How dare all those soldiers get their hands blown off in war. So unoriginal of them.

 

Yes, I am sick of people likening WoT to Star Wars.

[Mardragon]

I didnt read the whole thing' date=' but as you are talking star wars, I thought Id post this little thing. Kind of how I wished episode three was.

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-549926913023676179[/quote']

 

Heh heh. Very silly! Entertaining though. In a silly way. But silly is ok.

[okstate91]

mardag, hilarious clip. im putting it on my ipod as i type. i definitely think Cadsuane would be the first to go off. Yoda is just too cool and suave, man.

[Ilyena]

Agree, it's almost as funny as the kid with the lightsaber in his basement, hahahaha