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About bladeof5winds

  • Birthday 01/01/1
  1. I would say that you get to include the newer stuff as "part" of the current dune universe because it is supposedly written with Herbert's "notes" as the primary source for its story. I am not saying that it is coppied, there are enough differences as well. It is just that they have simialr feels. Some of this may have to do with the relationship between fantasy and space opera which is actually closer than space opera and "hard" science fiction. Whats more, herbert took a great deal from the current major religions and other prexisting concepts. So did RJ, and for that matter, Tolkien merely put a bunch of legeneds toghter in order to make middle earth (This was his training, he was extremely well versed in mythology and early literature of a multitude of cultures). So, some of the similarties may be that there are things similar in the basis for their writtings. My only real disagreement on with you is on your analysis of writting style. I always thought that Herbert was a little stilted. Whats more, for how complicated WOT is in terms of politics, number of characters, groups, places, plots, and counter-plots, backstory etc. Dune is the mother of all complicated undecernable storylines. The first Dune (much like Eye of the World) is not so bad in terms of being overly complex, but latter on the stories are much harder to decipher. Now, I do like RJ, and I like Herbert, and Hienlien and Pornell and Niven, and JRR, and many others. I think we see this comming from two directions. I like wheel because I think it is more readable and understandable than Dune, and you think that WOT is not up to the quality of writting of Dune but agree it easier to get into.
  2. Ok, so I was at work and talking to a friend about books we like to read. Now, WOT is defiantly my favorite fantasy series. However, I like to read a lot of stuff. Infact, I basically like RJ's conan stuff more than the orginals. However, this friend and I were talking. He is exicted about "Sandhunters of Dune" comming out. We got to thinking about it and there are a TON of similiarties between Herbert's world and Jordan's. Lets start with the simple Bene Gesserit -> Aes Sedai: From the nature of there name on down, these two groups have frightening similarties. All female, possessors of the only "magic" around, and both groups are supposed to be wating for, and protecting against male users of that power. (The Aes Sedai do await the return of the dragon, and especially after "God Emperor" the Bene Gesserit are tasked with preventing more "Kwisat Haderiach's" from forming.) Even consider their oaths. The bene gesserit as the primary holders of the orange catholic bible are charged "never make or allow to make a machine in the image of a man" and the aes sedai call to "never make a weapon with which one man can kill another" come from the same heritage. The thinking machines almost wiped out everybody in dune, and in Wheel it was weapons of the one power that allowed the war to be waged on the destructive scale it was. The similarties in action between both groups are uncanny. The Fremen -> The Aiel: Ok, lets see both are a desert people, and you could say that because of that of course there traditions are going to appear similar. However, the cultural similarties with things like stieches and aiel homes, the clannish nature, the warrior societies, remember that the fremen prove to be better warriors than the sadukar, and I would say that we can see a parrallel between that and the when the aiel have fought the other peoples around them. Paul goes to there secret city to learn he his their messiah and Rand goes to the Aiel secret city to learn he is their messaih. Speaking of that.. Rand -> Paul: They have more similarties between them than just that of protagonists, or even "god-like" heroes. They both are the wielders of unparralled power, they both have destiny shoved on them, They both are overly tall nordic people, they are both masters at the main armed combat method of hte day (sword/knife respectively), they both create an entirely new world/universal order, they were both bred/born for their purpose. Rand is a reincarnated version of an ancient hero, and in Dune forced reincarnation and "genetic memory" are a key part of the story. There are others Spacing Guild -> Sea Folk The Honored Matres -> Seanchan The Dark Lord -> Omious (cursory at best, but he does fill the same role) Face Dancers -> Graymen Now, I love WOT, but has anybody elsed kind of noticed this....
  3. Ok, I understand the mythological underpinnings of RJ's series. It is very good, he is indeed a modern day tolkien, because like the big T he has done his homework and has used elements from classic mythology well while retaining the essential themes and elements. Addtionally, Lucas did combine lots of older concepts. However, if you are going to give Tolkien and Jordan credit for their work then Lucas gets full credit as well. He was the first to work his group of mytholgoies into a coherent whole. It is disengeous to act like starwars would have come about without its driving force as well. It is indeed bad luck that all modern sci-fi and fantasy has to stand in the shadow of the monolith, but it does and that is where my comment that it must be HARD to not reuse a concept that got snagged into that story fits in. It has been said before that nothing new has been written in (depending on the speaker) 500 or more years.
  4. ok, here we have it. First the Jedi: a monolithic order dedicated to only tangetially interfering in the poltics of a universe in which they are supposed to be its defenders and servants. The Jedi are an ancient order with lots of creepy traditions, secret rules and ways of operating that piss people off. Then we have the Aes Sedai: A monolithic order dedicated to only tangetially interfering in the politics of a world in which they are by name supposed to be its servants. The Aes Sedai are a nancient order with lots of creepy traditions, secret rules nad ways of operating that piss people off. Indeed the only difference between these two groups is that the Jedi lie about EVERYTHING, in fact it appears that if you don't lie as a matter of principle you won't cut it as a Jedi while the Aes Sedai must lie by omission. So who do you think would drive the other group insane first: the jedi or the Aes Sedai? If you stuck the characters in the thread title in a room together who do you think would be the first to attempt to kill one of the others? *** Spoiler *** Also as a related point: Is it possible to write a fantasy story that doesn't use at least one element taken from star wars? I mean Rand losing a hand? Come on, as if he wasn't already similar enough to Anikin Whinewalker anyway! Not that I don't still love these novels, it must just be very hard to not do something that hasn't already been done in starwars somewhere
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