Towers of Midnight Speculation Thread (Spoilers for tGS)

[Aleron688]

OK, so is there any reason that MegaCircles haven't been used yet?

 

35 male + 37 female = unstoppable force.

 

plus with rand's memories/abilities with the OP now, he should be able to decide who should be in the circle with him, and should be able to create the weaves.  now if you add a couple sa'angreal to the mix... why not just go on a killing spree and utterly destroy the entire population of shadowspawn?

 

IMHO that would probably make a good portion of all these armies that are gathering useless.  Better yet you can have Logain controlling a second group of 72, and you have Supernova capabilities...

 

it seems to me that there are easy fixes to some of the problems about the LB that can be exploited with use of the OP. -- of course Logain has to rape Taim first... but after that is done, clear sailing.

 

BTW, since we are speculating on what will happen in ToM:

 

• ToG - Moiraine gets saved
  
• Black Tower - Logain takes over
  
• Loial convinces ogier to take up axes for LB
  
• Slayer is finally killed
  
• we finally find out that Noal is indeed Jain
  
• A LOT of people start getting axed.
  
• Tam and Rand actually have a conversation
  
• Rand learns tears again - possibly at the reunion with Tam
  
• Fortuona and Rand come to an accord.  Likely mat will be used as a point of agreement between them.  Mat will likely be commander of both forces at the LB
  
• Perrin comes to terms with his abilities.
  
• Galad meets up with Perrin, and then finds his Mommy
  
• SOMEONE smacks Gawyne soundly across the face.
  
• Elayne solidifies her rule in Andor and begins the army gathering -- she also has some living organs fall out of her at some point
  
• Borderlanders are returned to the borderlands
  
• Lan reaches the Gap, with a GIGANTIC army
  
• we discover that Moridin's hideout is in fact the Seven Towers in Malkier
  
• Moiraine + Cadsuane have a little row... Moiraine paddles Caddy's behind -- metaphorically.
  
• Who am i missing?  Fain will likely show up and kill someone important.. be it on the side of good or evil is yet to be seen.
  
• Aviendha becomes a WO, and we learn something important in Rhuidean.
  
• the Tinkers have a large part to play -- something to do with the song likely.  I'm confident Egwene will figure it out.  I like the idea of Avi finding the song or something like it.
  
• The Three will become one -- with Calandor playing a role.  Min's viewing will come to pass.
  
• There is also the fact that Nyneave or someone will spill the beans about the Suldam being able to learn to channel, so the Seanchan will have a lot to think about. -- also the fact that they didn't get the Superweapon of the AS, but they do have Traveling now.
  

 

that's all i've got for now.  O, and they will use MEGACIRCLES!

[Sentinel78]

Borderlanders are returned to the borderlands

Lan reaches the Gap, with a GIGANTIC army

 

Perhaps the Borderlanders will be transferred to Lan's location.

 

My own theory:

 

We will learn that Shadowspawn can survive passing through a gateway made with the True Power, and the whole strategy of holding back the Shadowspawn horde at Tarwin's Gap is rendered obsolete.

[Aleron688]

Borderlanders are returned to the borderlands

Lan reaches the Gap, with a GIGANTIC army

 

Perhaps the Borderlanders will be transferred to Lan's location.

 

My own theory:

 

We will learn that Shadowspawn can survive passing through a gateway made with the True Power, and the whole strategy of holding back the Shadowspawn horde at Tarwin's Gap is rendered obsolete.

 

Maybe.  I think that the borderlanders joining up with lan is plausible, if not probable, but shadowspawn being transportable with the TP doesnt really mean much.  There's only one person who can do all the transporting, and i'm not so sure that he is going to be acting as doorman during the LB

[Jasen Nathael]

Mat refusal to stand against his wife's forces and vice versa will force Rand and Tuon to become allies. Her "Fortuona" arrogance will not make her anything more than Tuon to Mat

[Sentinel78]

Yeah but it would make for one big unexpected blitzkrieg.  Plus, you gotta figure this battle is going to be going on over the whole world.  If they really all came down from the Blight then Lan is just going to get wiped out.  I just don't think RJ would do that.  Nothing to back this up, I know.

[Aleron688]

There simply isn't time for an all-out war against west/south and east/north.

 

So the seanchan will HAVE to come to an agreement, and Mat will probably be the centre of it

[DemandredFO]

I don't the borderlanders will go back to the blight.  Lan and Ituralde are already there and are likely going to be flattened by the Trollocs and whatever else comes storming out of the blight.  Besides, the 13 Aes Sedai with the borderlanders are probably not friendly to Rand.  They could be another Eliada plan, I don't think Egwene would've said what she did unless there was at least one Eliada plan left.  So likely after the showdown with the borderlanders no AS will be left and anyway someone, my guess Perrin, could use a large army.

Someone should just go ahead and behead Gaywn, I'm thinking on of the duties of first Prince is to think and Gawyn hasn't been doing very much of that for a majority of the series.

The problem I see with MegaCircles is the trust issue.  I agree they could and it would make TG much cleaner but I don't see the trust factor being there

[Gorlith]

On the topic of the Seanchan prophesies.

 

Each culture has their own prophesies, either tied to Rand or the Dragon or some other aspect of the LB or its buildup in some way. Some are similar, some are not. I think even though the Seanchan ones are based originally on the randland ones, they have evolved into their own distinct prophesies, despite Ishy messing with them. The shadow have prophesies themselves even, about Luc and Isam and others, so it isn't odd that even if the Seachan ones have a bit of taint on them they still need to come to pass. Their version is ingrained in them, they will not drop their beliefs to adopt the ones from Rand's side of the ocean, they think those are the ones that are corrupted.

[Sharaman]

She's proficient enough and practised enough to control two AS simultaneously - the only such example we've seen. The a'dam would certainly hold her, the oath rod would also certainly bind her.

 

No one else has had a reason to try and control 2 at once.  Their are many more Sul'dam then damane, some can go quite a while without being linked to a damane.

 

I could be wrong, their are lots of things we don't know.  The typical age at which one becomes a Sul'dam would be helpful. As would how long those that see weaves w/o being linked have typically worked before that happens.

 

I have always had the impression you had to work with the a'dam for years before you could be leashed with it.

So she's advanced beyond the averge damane in that she's actually successfully experimented with trying to control two. Do you think this marks a novice or somebody who is highly experienced in using the A'dam? Seanchan girls are tested pretty much every year from the time they're 14 or something till the time they're around 25. So every sparker is picked up and pretty much every non-sparker with potential. 

There's a peculiar gap there in that you'd assume that somebody would have accidentally figured out that an experienced damane can be held by the A'dam or that a girl who tests positive as a sparker can also be a damane. It seems they test for spark first and after leashing the sparkers, they test for damane. Apparently, they don't retest somebody who has scored positive as a damane again to see if she's held by the A'dam.   

However, there's also an impression that the Royal family is generally exempt - Tuon volunteered to learn the A'dam according to what she told Mat.

[Aleron688]

firstly and foremost.  when talking about a'dam...

 

those who control: Sul'dam

those who get controlled: damane

 

damn it's confusing when you are trying to sort out who is who when you are talking about them both using the same names!

 

secondly, i agree that it is strange that no one has discovered that sul'dam can't be controlled with an a'dam, especially when they are nearing the age of around 25... when they have had ample exposure to it.

 

 

back on the topic of Gawyn... maybe he will go back to Caemlyn and Elayne will bash his skull in when she hears him saying he is going to kill rand.

 

She'll be all like, "O ya, well i'm having his babies, and if you even try to lay a finger on him, i'll rip your head off." and then hopefully he tries and gets his head torn off his shoulders. -- i can hope

[Muad Cheade]

Mat refusal to stand against his wife's forces and vice versa will force Rand and Tuon to become allies.

 

It has not stopped mat from decimating the Seanchan armies he faced in KoD even with Tuon at his side. As he said they day they were married, "You're not my enemy, but your empire is." And Tuon replied, "And I live to serve the empire."

 

They both will do what they have to.

 

It is unlikely all of the Borderlanders rulers will die and leave Perrin and Faile to lead their forces. Currently, Lan and Ituralde will be annihilated if the Shadow releases its hordes immediately. Land does not have the time nor manpower to raise any army even close to what the Shadow has.

 

I don't really understand why people don't like Gawyn. Like everyone (Rand, Perrin, Mat for example), he's doing what he has to. He's believing (like most of the world) that Rand killed his mother, he was willing to sacrifice his life to save that of the woman he loved and he's quite possibly the best swordsman right now.

 

I don't think the second time Perrin has to be there to save Rand is with the Borderlanders. It kinda seems too easy to me, but then again, they are in an artificial stedding.

[Aleron688]

I don't really understand why people don't like Gawyn. Like everyone (Rand, Perrin, Mat for example), he's doing what he has to. He's believing (like most of the world) that Rand killed his mother, he was willing to sacrifice his life to save that of the woman he loved and he's quite possibly the best swordsman right now.

 

He may be the best swordsman... but i would REALLY love to see Lan PWN his ass and teach him some humility.  just something about him makes him completely DISlikable.  even more so than Caddy.

[elec1cele]

 

Made changes to quote for clarity changes underlined

So she's advanced beyond the averge Sul'dam in that she's actually successfully experimented with trying to control two. Do you think this marks a novice or somebody who is highly experienced in using the A'dam? Seanchan girls are tested pretty much every year from the time they're 14 or something till the time they're around 25. So every sparker is picked up and pretty much every non-sparker with potential.   

There's a peculiar gap there in that you'd assume that somebody would have accidentally figured out that an experienced Sul'dam can be held by the A'dam or that a girl who tests positive as a sparker can also be a Sul'dam. It seems they test for spark first and after leashing the sparkers, they test for Sul'dam. Apparently, they don't retest somebody who has scored positive as a Sul'dam again to see if she's held by the A'dam.   

However, there's also an impression that the Royal family is generally exempt - Tuon volunteered to learn the A'dam according to what she told Mat.

 

When i said no one has had a reason to I was talking about in the story. Nothing says that all Sul'dam aren't taught how to control more then one damane at a time.

 

You do bring up the interesting point about the possibility that if you can be Sul'dam they stop testing you for being damane.

 

I think part of the reason why i believe that the Sul'dam take a long long time to gain the ability to be leashed is because they test until age 25.  But if they don't test Sul'dam then they could gain the ability quicker although RJ has said it still takes a "long time".

 

They certainly would have never discovered damane could act as Sul'dam.  A marath'damane controlling a damane the very idea would send most Seanchan into shock.  ;)

[Crael123]

agree taim needs to raped and moirane needs to finnally get back into the story. fain will kill elayne and gawyn atthe same time everyone is happy

[Aleron688]

agree taim needs to raped and moirane needs to finnally get back into the story. fain will kill elayne and gawyn atthe same time everyone is happy

 

lol.  "Think of the children! won't somebody PLEASE think of the children!" -- Maud Flanders

 

Elayne can't die cuz she needs to have the Dragons babies and rule andor.  Although Rand does have Avi to have 4 babies with, and he IS royalty... with a potentially stronger claim than elayne.  Hmmm.... maybe she SHOULD die :)

 

[sdelu]

agree taim needs to raped and moirane needs to finnally get back into the story. fain will kill elayne and gawyn atthe same time everyone is happy

 

lol.  "Think of the children! won't somebody PLEASE think of the children!" -- Maud Flanders

 

Elayne can't die cuz she needs to have the Dragons babies and rule andor.  Although Rand does have Avi to have 4 babies with, and he IS royalty... with a potentially stronger claim than elayne.  Hmmm.... maybe she SHOULD die :)

 

 

 

Nothing to stop her from having the babies then dying. Maybe that's why Aviendha will have four, because the other two are Elayne's! huzzah!

 

Oh, that would be nice....

[Diederichos]

I think I saw somewhere where it said that the Imperial family isn't exempt from the damane/sul'dam testing and that two of Tuon's siblings or something had fallen to this? Tuon was found to be able to be a sul'dam, but she wasn't expected to be, it was only her mother's permission to do so that allowed her(and I think it said that her mother gave her an odd look...so I'm pretty sure at least one person in high position know the truth).

 

That said, I wonder how the collar thing will be resolved. I'm certsin now, after the Beslan thing, that the Seanchan are here to stay, and it's fairly clear that the truth about the a'dam will be exposed. How will it happen in a way that still leaves Tuon in charge?

[Aleron688]

I think I saw somewhere where it said that the Imperial family isn't exempt from the damane/sul'dam testing and that two of Tuon's siblings or something had fallen to this? Tuon was found to be able to be a sul'dam, but she wasn't expected to be, it was only her mother's permission to do so that allowed her(and I think it said that her mother gave her an odd look...so I'm pretty sure at least one person in high position know the truth).

 

That said, I wonder how the collar thing will be resolved. I'm certsin now, after the Beslan thing, that the Seanchan are here to stay, and it's fairly clear that the truth about the a'dam will be exposed. How will it happen in a way that still leaves Tuon in charge?

 

That's easy enough. she will just decree it to be so, and it shall be.  done.

[randfandom]

Why does everyone insist that rand will kneel to the crystal throne? it is a false prophecy, or is there something that im missing?

Because Seanchan, as a people are much like Aiel, despite the differences. They don't care about what other people say about Dragon Reborn. ...

  So, the only rational thing left for Rand to do if he wants Seanchan forces as an ally, is to complete their prophecies even if he knows them to be "corrupt",becauase that is "what must be done".

 

Nope, it's different here. The Seanchan believe that the Empress will fight the shadow and no other nation will be involved, since they will all be her subjects. Further, the Dragon Reborn will "serve her" by being sent to fight with the Dark One "for the glory of the Empress". Nowhere in any other prophecy is the Dragon described as merely a tool or servant of some nameless ruler.

 

The Seanchan prophecies are corrupted. The proof is (see PoD in some Seanchan general PoV) is that they are generally the same as the Karatheon Cycle, but with the part about the Nine Moons serving the Dragon carefully wiped out and replaced with the exact opposite. Since the Karatheon prophecies generally precede Hawkwing's people's move to Seanchan, it is a safe bet to guess that the correct version is not the Seanchan's.

 

I think there is a simple method to proving that, which I hope very much to see in the next book - have someone blow up the Crystal Throne once and for all. It's a disgusting Ter'angreal which is emblematic of the problem with the whole Seanchan system of compulsion and slavery.

[jthoma8318]

OK Semihage new the band was around, and I believe she knew Rand gave it to Casduane to keep safe. When she was set free I doubt very seriously anything Casduane could make would stop her.

 

The quote from prophecy: Fotune=Fortuna and Mat's soul is luck. He snatched the moom (9 moons) from the shy by capturing Tuons heart.

 

 

Does anyone else think its suspicious that Sorelia (sp) is the only one Cadsuane showed the collar too right before it got stolen?

 

 

Both Bair & Sorilea are present for that.  Sorilea hisses that the domination band is evil.  Bair has a less marked reaction.

 

I wonder how much Cadsuane has trusted the other AS.  She didn't think at any point before showing the WO that she was the only one who knew where the band was.

 

Also, Sorilea is extremely weak in the OP.  I doubt she could channel enough to overcome Cadsuane's wards.

 

Conclusion:  Bair is a DF. We haven't seen enough Aiel DFs overall.

[Aleron688]

and we also know Bain does not channel, so it is completely useless to speculate that she is a DF.

 

As for two posts above, not ALL of the Seanchan prophesies are wrong... just some of them. it remains to be seen which ones... although I'm fairly sure that Rand being just a tool to be used is either outright wrong, or else GROSSLY exaggerated.

 

Damn, its too bad the book isn't done now so I could tell some of you just how wrong you are (IMHO ofc :) ) without having to look for proof :) lol

[jthoma8318]

 

I had one thought during the Rand/Tuin meeting. Was Rand conciously or unconiously using Compulsion on her? Possibly with Lews Therin doing it. He was still DarkRand at this point. RRemeber she thought about how much she WANTED to do what he said and follow him blindly or something along the lines of blindly.

 

I'm really looking forward to how the whole Rand/Fortuona thing works out.

 

- Will Rand find out that Mat is the Prince of Ravens and married to Fortuona?  Will he find it out before he meets with her again, or while they are meeting?

- How willing will Fortuona be to meet with him again?  He scared the bejeebers out of her, and rightly so.  Of everyone that he needs to convince that he isn't DarkRand anymore, the Empress will be the hardest.

- If Rand finds out about the WT raid before he meets with her again, how will that affect him? 

 

I think that it would be great if Rand takes Mat along to the meeting, without the Seanchan knowing.  I also think that the only way that Rand will get the Seanchan to agree to a truce will be to kneel to the throne.  He has seen how much better they are at governing than he is; I think that he'll see that his opposition is hindering his cause.  He needs to bend alot here.

[Aleron688]

 

I had one thought during the Rand/Tuin meeting. Was Rand conciously or unconiously using Compulsion on her? Possibly with Lews Therin doing it. He was still DarkRand at this point. RRemeber she thought about how much she WANTED to do what he said and follow him blindly or something along the lines of blindly.

 

I'm really looking forward to how the whole Rand/Fortuona thing works out.

 

- Will Rand find out that Mat is the Prince of Ravens and married to Fortuona?  Will he find it out before he meets with her again, or while they are meeting?

- How willing will Fortuona be to meet with him again?  He scared the bejeebers out of her, and rightly so.  Of everyone that he needs to convince that he isn't DarkRand anymore, the Empress will be the hardest.

- If Rand finds out about the WT raid before he meets with her again, how will that affect him? 

 

I think that it would be great if Rand takes Mat along to the meeting, without the Seanchan knowing.  I also think that the only way that Rand will get the Seanchan to agree to a truce will be to kneel to the throne.  He has seen how much better they are at governing than he is; I think that he'll see that his opposition is hindering his cause.  He needs to bend alot here.

 

I'm pretty sure BS said that it was just his ta'veren-ness acting up again.

[jthoma8318]

Elaida's Fortelling specifically said The Royal House of Andor, which at the time was Tigrainne, Duaghter Heir, who became Shail. And Lod Luc was First Prince of the Sword and is joined with Lan's cousin as two distinct personalities in one person.

 

Elayne and Aviendha really have no relevance to Rand's story besides as romantic interests.

 

You're forgetting Elaida's fortelling that the house of Trakand is the key to winning TG.

[stormcrow]

It seemed as if Rand was just using his ta'veren to influence Tuon's decision, that was the pressure she felt.