The Thread Previously Known As (Something Else) (Chapter 1 spoiler)

[claireducky]

I don't feel like that means anything. Nowhere in those pictures, nor in the text accompanying them does it call that sword by the name of "Justice". Not to mention that any number of sword replicas from the WoT world could have a Dragon on the scabbard. I know that apparently Claire is a staff member, from what it says below her name and no offense at all but I'm not sure i'm just taking her word based on this and an "unamed source who has read the manuscript in full." I'm not trying to be a dick but am I the only one who thinks it seems a little fishy that we would all read that chapter and start a discussion about the sword...And to then have the answer handed to us a few days later?

 

I get that we probably would have found out once they release the prologue. But not neccasarily and even still I don't feel like that's something that should have been told to us in the way that it was. No offense to Claire. You're the greatest. I've thought so since the first time I heard of you. Yesterday.

 

Kathana wasn't showing those pictures to verify the information (her "Claire's information is accurate." did that), but just as an added little tidbit for people who might want to see it.  As for the "fishyness", you can go back several pages in the thread and find a long post on my part about my thoughts on it being originally Amalasan's sword that Hawkwing took from him when he was captured and then it became the famed Justice after that.  Why would I go to all the trouble (and research in the BWB) for that post to try to mislead anyone a day or two later?

 

i kinda wish we didnt know thought >_< i was enjoying the suspense in waiting for not only the prologue but the actual release O_O

 

Why was it announced in the way it was-- Did you expect trumpet fanfares?  There's not going to be a news announcement every time a little snippet is confirmed from those in the know.  Given that the thread title has the (spoilers) disclaimer in it, you shouldn't be reading the thread at all if you "don't want to know" until the release.  If Chapter 1 had plainly said "oh look at the keen sword they gave me!  It's Justice!", there wouldn't be a problem. 

 

The reason I posted the info was because I was discussing with my unnamed source all the threads on this board, and I mentioned that this one was nearing 7 pages, all about the sword.  I said that the prevailing thought was that it was Justice, but that there were theories from Turak's sword to the Sword of the Sun.  They said essentially, "Oh, well you can let them know it's Justice.  There's no reason to hold that back."  So with that blessing, I posted.  Sorry if it upset some, and if some of you choose not to believe me or the veracity of my source, that's fine.  But honestly, if you are in a spoilers thread, you should expect some spoilers.  Given the normally close-mouthed RAFO attitude by Jordan in the past, I would think a revelation like this would be something received a little more...excitedly. 

 

Asha'man Kovan, you're the greatest, too!  And I've only heard of you since seeing your post.

 

Claire

[Luckers]

I don't think he was seriously angry, just wistful for a new point of discussion after four years.

 

Oh Also, I completely missed your previous post. Things make so much more sense if Justice was Amalasan's sword originally. Going back to read in detail.

[claireducky]

Well I think there's still a lot to discuss (perhaps more so) knowing that it IS Justice.  Like, what is he going to do with it now that he has it?  Will Tuon and Co. actually know what it is?

[Luckers]

The interesting thing for me is him thinking about how Justice was is if it had been made for him. At first glance it could just be about the look of it, but when you concider that it is such a historical sword, the blade of the nearest thing to an emperor of the Westlands ever seen...

 

I went back through your notes and your right that it IS suggestive, but when we think about the fact that the most dragonlike thing about it was the scabbard, and that a leather scabbard would have rotted buried in earth it seems likely that the scabbard was made as packaging for the gift of the blade, and therefore the dragons signify no connection between Justice and a Dragon, false or otherwise.

 

So yeah, not really sure on this...

[claireducky]

He relaxed his hand on his sword, though he did not release it. He fingered the cloth-tied hilt. The weapon was long, slightly curved, and the lacquered scabbard was painted with a long, sinuous dragon of red and gold. It looked as if it had been designed specifically for Rand—and yet it was centuries old, unearthed only recently. How odd, that they should find this now, he thought, and make a gift of it to me, completely unaware of what they were holding. . . .

 

He had taken to wearing the sword immediately. It felt right beneath his fingers. He had told no one, not even Min, that he had recognized the weapon. And not, oddly, from Lews Therin’s memories—but Rand’s own.

 

Can you lacquer a leather scabbard?  I imagine the scabbard to be wood of some sort.  Also the comment "it looked like it had been designed specifically for Rand-"  has to be referring to the Dragons on it, as you wouldn't think that it had been "designed specifically for him" if you just saw a plain ol curved sword.  This follows up with "yet it was centuries old, unearthed only recently".

 

To me, that passage suggests that the dragons are what make it look like it was designed for him, which isn't the case since it is so old (scabbard and all).  So I think the scabbard was part of what was found (unearthed doesn't have to mean the ground, too..it could have been anywhere, maybe in a stasis box of Ishy's all this time since his stint as Moerad).

 

 

 

 

[Luckers]

Unearthed sounds pretty earthy to me.

 

I'm pretty sure you can lacquer leather, but not enough to flat out say it lol. Any lacquer lovers out there?

[Beli Tsar]

I'm curiuos to see what Tuon's reaction will be if/when she learns Rand is carrying the greatest remaining artifact of Artur Hawkwing. Pretty sure she won't be best pleased and that it might cause a (additional) bone of contention between them.

[RAMb0211]

Do you think they would even recognize the sword? I mean the Seanchan have seen the Dragon banner right? Wouldn't they be wondering why the symbol on the legendary sword of their "demi-god" is being used by those who oppose them?

[deepak_dragonreborn]

Maybe there is a prophecy for the Seanchen stating that whoever carries the sword Justice leads the Seanchen or something....it'll make things easier for Rand plus it might be the thing that binds Tuon to Rand

[The Desert Pea]

Unearthed sounds pretty earthy to me.

 

I'm pretty sure you can lacquer leather, but not enough to flat out say it lol. Any lacquer lovers out there?

 

Any possibility that there's a warding on the scabbard? <_<

[Davian93]

Unlike Randland proper, where all of Hawkwing's memories/artifacts were purposely destroyed, Seanchan culture reveres Hawkwing and his descendants.  Thus, they likely have far more biographical information on him up to and including possible physical descriptions (maybe even tapestry type stuff).  If anyone would know what the Dragon was and its relationship to Justice/Hawkwing, it would be Tuon.  The only difference is their deliberately corrupted prophecies.  Hopefully a few Tuon POVs will vastly expand our knowledge of Hawkwing as its always been one of the more interesting mysteries of the books IMHO.

[Shard]

Hey Luckers, I did a google search and apparently you can indeed Lacquer Leather. It appears that the lacquer even makes the leather stiff or they stiffen it somehow. I'm not a leather expert but I got leather boxes to come up in my google search.

[Davian93]

If its a Japanese style one edged katana type weapon (A likely possibility), it will be a wood scabbard.  All scabbards were made of wood to protect the blade edge.  Granted its clearly a OP wrought weapon but the scabbard would likely still be a standard wood and its easy to lacquer wood. 

[Shard]

Yeah I have a Katana from Japan that has a wood scabbard as well. I was just letting Luckers know that leather can be lacquerd.

[Davian93]

Yeah I have a Katana from Japan that has a wood scabbard as well. I was just letting Luckers know that leather can be lacquerd.

 

Interesting that you can actually lacquer leather like that.  Either way, it makes you wonder how the scabbard survived 1000 years without some sort of OP protection.  Thus, its a very very good chance that the entire thing was protected by the Power, a stasis box, etc.

[RAMb0211]

Just taking a shot in the dark here. Perhaps the sword was found by Graendal and left behind when she fled Arad Doman. Total speculation, but i think she'd be more likely to find this sort of thing than some random person in the middle of a war-torn nation.

[Ashaman Kovan]

Asha'man Kovan, you're the greatest, too!  And I've only heard of you since seeing your post.Claire

 

We are the greatest! Let it be known, uhhh...Henceforth.  ;D

[Ashaman Kovan]

I don't think he was seriously angry, just wistful for a new point of discussion after four years.

 

If you mean me, then yes, you're totally right. I wasn't seriously angry at all. :)

[Luckers]

Hey Luckers, I did a google search and apparently you can indeed Lacquer Leather. It appears that the lacquer even makes the leather stiff or they stiffen it somehow. I'm not a leather expert but I got leather boxes to come up in my google search.

 

Thanks shard. My works internet bans google. And wikipedia. And facebook. It's like they want us to do our jobs or something.

[Davian93]

Hey Luckers, I did a google search and apparently you can indeed Lacquer Leather. It appears that the lacquer even makes the leather stiff or they stiffen it somehow. I'm not a leather expert but I got leather boxes to come up in my google search.

 

Thanks shard. My works internet bans google. And wikipedia. And facebook. It's like they want us to do our jobs or something.

 

Those bastards!  (mine only does the latter two)

[Shard]

Hey Luckers, I did a google search and apparently you can indeed Lacquer Leather. It appears that the lacquer even makes the leather stiff or they stiffen it somehow. I'm not a leather expert but I got leather boxes to come up in my google search.

 

Thanks shard. My works internet bans google. And wikipedia. And facebook. It's like they want us to do our jobs or something.

 

Those bastards!  (mine only does the latter two)

 

I know that totally sucks when they do that. Don't they know we need some fun too?

[Beli Tsar]

Hey Luckers, I did a google search and apparently you can indeed Lacquer Leather. It appears that the lacquer even makes the leather stiff or they stiffen it somehow. I'm not a leather expert but I got leather boxes to come up in my google search.

 

Thanks shard. My works internet bans google. And wikipedia. And facebook. It's like they want us to do our jobs or something.

 

Lol, if only they knew that it was really Dragonmount that was keeping any work from being done

[Lunan]

from the prolog in eye of the world:

 

"And it came to pass in those days, as it had come be­fore and would come again, that the Dark lay heavy on the land and weighed down the hearts of men, and the green things failed, and hope died. And men cried out to the Cre­ator, say­ing, O Light of the Heav­ens, Light of the World, let the Promised One be born of the moun­tain, ac­cord­ing to the prophe­cies, as he was in ages past and will be in ages to come. Let the Prince of the Morn­ing sing to the land that green things will grow and the val­leys give forth lambs. Let the arm of the Lord of the Dawn shel­ter us from the Dark, and the great sword of jus­tice de­fend us. Let the Drag­on ride again on the winds of time.

 

(from Char­al Dri­anaan to Cala­mon,

 

The Cy­cle of the Drag­on.

 

Au­thor un­known, the Fourth Age)"

 

 

I'm still with the majority and think this sword is justice, the dragon symbol could easily have been added by ishy as he was an adviser to Hawkwing, or so we understand from things he said. after all until the dragon banner was found at the end of eye of the world, NO ONE  not even AS knew what LTT's symbol was, they did know the ancient AS but not that of the dragon

 

[Davian93]

from the prolog in eye of the world:

 

"And it came to pass in those days, as it had come be­fore and would come again, that the Dark lay heavy on the land and weighed down the hearts of men, and the green things failed, and hope died. And men cried out to the Cre­ator, say­ing, O Light of the Heav­ens, Light of the World, let the Promised One be born of the moun­tain, ac­cord­ing to the prophe­cies, as he was in ages past and will be in ages to come. Let the Prince of the Morn­ing sing to the land that green things will grow and the val­leys give forth lambs. Let the arm of the Lord of the Dawn shel­ter us from the Dark, and the great sword of jus­tice de­fend us. Let the Drag­on ride again on the winds of time.

 

(from Char­al Dri­anaan to Cala­mon,

 

The Cy­cle of the Drag­on.

 

Au­thor un­known, the Fourth Age)"

 

 

I'm still with the majority and think this sword is justice, the dragon symbol could easily have been added by ishy as he was an adviser to Hawkwing, or so we understand from things he said. after all until the dragon banner was found at the end of eye of the world, NO ONE  not even AS knew what LTT's symbol was, they did know the ancient AS but not that of the dragon

 

 

Moiraine recognized the banner at the Eye so clearly there was a description lying around...likely in the Tower library among other places.

[Ziggdiezan]

do you guys remember when Moraine goes to those two sisters house. one is a green other is a brown, forget their names. i think that this isnt the first time Moraine was at their house, they seemed to be very knowledgeable about the prophecies of the dragon. I think this is how she knew the Dragons symbol and what that banner meant.