The Thread Previously Known As (Something Else) (Chapter 1 spoiler)

[Ziggdiezan]

I know its a bit weird to be making wondering about the sword when the chapter came out yesterday but its really getting to me, haha. Where do you think he knows the sword from, if its obvious im sorry maby i missed something in the books. thanks guys

 

 

 

 

Edit: Got a PM from someone angry that they now knew there was a controversy surrounding a sword. Fair enough I guess.

[Davian93]

Couple of possibilities:

 

1.) Its Hawkwing's Sword Justice.  He would have recognized it from Falme. Why he wouldn't want to tell anyone that is an issue however.  Besides Min was at Falme and likely would have recognized too (though she wasn't nearly as close to Hawkwing as Rand.

 

2.) It could be Guaire Amalasian's sword.  He was from the Arad Doman area.  However, why would Rand recognize it?  There is no reason for him to know what type of sword Amalasian had.

 

3.) Rand is a bit nutty at this point.  He might think its from his memory but it might really be from LTT's memories or even from Ishy/Moridin's memories as there is a link there too.  Anything taken from Rand's POV should be handled with a grain of salt at this point.

 

4.) Its some other sword that we won't know until we read the Prologue.  There was mention that Chapter 1 occurs right after a scene in the prologue that would shed some more light on certain events and the presentation of the sword by the Domani could very well be one of those events. 

 

Discuss.

[jemron]

I agree with Davian93 that it will most likely make more sense after we read the prologue.  However, my belief is that it is indeed Justice, Artur Hawkwings sword.  Rand did in fact see it at the end of TGH (p. 661 US paperback), and it would make sense that it was buried "centuries" ago, as apposed to "thousands of years" ago, which would imply that it was from the Age of Legends.

 

Some people at Tor.com are theorizing that it is Turak's sword (the Seanchan blademaster that Rand kills at the end of TGH).  But that doesn't seem very realistic to me.

 

The Seanchan will see it as a very positive omen when the Dragon Reborn is found to posses the sword of their most respected ancestor.  I think that it will be helpful in his negotiations with the Seanchan.

[Davian93]

Turak's sword doesn't fit as it wouldn't be buried.  I was surprised when I read that on Tor.com too.

 

I also think that it is Justice.  I can't wait for the e-prologue now...and more importantly for TGS to come out.

[dantes_inferno]

In "The Great Hunt" hawkwings sword is described as a great sword. i took that to mean a normal fantasy type great sword (two handed double edged straight blade) but thats my opinion.

 

My thoughts were either of the first two false dragons, or even Lews Therins sword. He was said to have been a blade master too. but i dont know. i just dont see it being hawkwings sword

[Luckers]

Why would Rand know of it from his own memories, though? The only ancient blades Rand should recognise should be those of the Heroes. It's not like Rand has had an extensive education in history, nor is this common folk knowledge--neither Aes Sedai nor Two Riversian people recognised it. It was just Rand.

 

Given that he describes it as 'almost as if it had been made for him' I'm inclined to agree that it is a single-handed blade. The ones that come to mind are Gaidal's blades--he fought with two, one in each hand. Or possibly the Sword of the Sun--which was wielded by Amaresu, who seems to be a reference to Amaterasu, who always fought one handed.

[Shard]

I understand the logic in thinking this would be Justice, but is Justice a Katana? I mean seriously there seem to be alot of Asian weapons for a place that is modeled after Europe.

[Luckers]

Justice was described as a 'great sword'.

[RAMb0211]

Some people are saying it's the third uber-powerful male sa'angreal. It was referenced by Lanfear in TSR as being on of the two more powerful than Callandor ever made for a man. The third being the male Chodan Kal. This theory explains a number of things:

1. Rand says that it feels right in his hands which could be about anything, but angreal are usually like that.

2. He says those who gave it to him had no idea what they had unearthed (the 2nd most powerful sa'angreal).

3. He said he remembered the sword from his own memory (his meeting with Lanfear in TSR)

 

I'd like to believe that's what it is due to the sheer awesomeness of it, but it could just as well be something we don't know about.

[Davian93]

Justice was described as a 'great sword'.

 

Yeah, that is a problem but its unclear as to whether its a literal description or not. Is it a Great Sword or is it Hawkwing's great sword of Justice?

[Ziggdiezan]

i was thinking that maby he saw it when he went through the doorway in tear or something. far off theory just poped into my head.

[Shard]

Yeah Great sword makes me think it is a more European design like a Claymore or something, it's just all too vague. Plus my own personal feeling that any character likened to Arthur shouldn't be wielding a Katana around. I think I like the theory of it being some sort of *'angreal since Channlers do feel kinship with such objects.

[Owners.Inc]

Some people are saying it's the third uber-powerful male sa'angreal. It was referenced by Lanfear in TSR as being on of the two more powerful than Callandor ever made for a man. The third being the male Chodan Kal. This theory explains a number of things:

1. Rand says that it feels right in his hands which could be about anything, but angreal are usually like that.

2. He says those who gave it to him had no idea what they had unearthed (the 2nd most powerful sa'angreal).

3. He said he remembered the sword from his own memory (his meeting with Lanfear in TSR)

 

I'd like to believe that's what it is due to the sheer awesomeness of it, but it could just as well be something we don't know about.

 

I don't think its the angreal, simply because Rand has never physically seen it. It also seems a little late in the series to dredge up something so long back.

[Barmacral]

Too late? Hardly, Justice comes from before the mention of the Sa'Angreal, and its the most popular theory. Nothing is "too late" in this series.

[jemron]

Has anybody re-read the scenes from TSR where Rand sees through his ancestors' eyes?  Maybe it's in there.  I'll try to read through that whole section tomorrow to see if I can find anything.

 

If it isn't Justice, then, in my mind, it has to be from that time.

 

Someone also mentioned that he might have seen it in one of those other lives that he lived through the Portal Stone toward the end of TGH.  I think this is unlikely, but who knows?

 

Also, finally, could it be possible that it was at one time one of the artifacts that Bayle Domon had hidden away in his boat way back in tEotW?

[Davian93]

Yeah, I just reread them to be sure.  There is no mention of any sword in there other than Callandor. 

[vasu619]

I can't see the sword being a sa'angreal. I think Rand is trained enough to recognise those when he sees them.

[bowlwoman]

Has anybody re-read the scenes from TSR where Rand sees through his ancestors' eyes?  Maybe it's in there.  I'll try to read through that whole section tomorrow to see if I can find anything.

 

Yeah, I read through the whole section, and there's nothing specific there.  Swords that random people carry are mentioned occasionally, but nothing of note.

 

I at first thought it was from Rand's Ruidean memories, but I'm more inclined to believe it's either Hawkwing's sword or Guaire Amalasan's, the false Dragon.

[Jaric Mar Tedronai]

i couldnt find anything either when rand goes to rhuidean, but its always possible i missed something.  i had always thought the swords the aes sedai made were all like lan's and tam's and laman's, but it could be that they made different styles (i.e. one handed swords) as well, and this is one of those.  the whole justice theory just doesnt sit well with me at this point, so im more inclined to think it belonged to Arad Doman's false dragon, but that still doesnt explain why rand recognized it and not LTT. after all, they made a point to say it was recognized not from Lews Therin's memories, but from Rands own. i suppose this sort of nullifies my theory, as LTT was centuries dead before any false dragon appeared.

 

i do have to say that this seems to be the biggest point of debate with everyone else, which puts my mind somewhat at ease because it was really bothering me after reading chapter one yesterday.

[fikkie77]

Has anybody re-read the scenes from TSR where Rand sees through his ancestors' eyes?  Maybe it's in there.  I'll try to read through that whole section tomorrow to see if I can find anything.

Yeah, I read through the whole section, and there's nothing specific there.  Swords that random people carry are mentioned occasionally, but nothing of note.

 

I at first thought it was from Rand's Ruidean memories, but I'm more inclined to believe it's either Hawkwing's sword or Guaire Amalasan's, the false Dragon.

Why would Rand recognise the sword of a false dragon? Amalasan isn't mentioned as a hero of the Horn.

[Copperfield]

didn't Ishy influence the false dragons? If he did then the merging with him would allow Rand to recognize Amalasans sword.

[Jaric Mar Tedronai]

thats an interesting theory, i hadnt thought of that....after 15 years of reading these books im still unsure about ishy...it says in TSR that he was free to touch the world, and when he appears at LTT's house in the prologue of eotw its proof of it, but i always thought that it was stressful or required a huge amount of effort, for lack of a better way to put this. after all when he invades mat and rand and perrin's dreams he doesnt always have complete control, cuz stuff like the brick fireplace became stone, the square tables became round, etc.

 

crap this thread is on the sword...back to my original point i hadnt really thought about ishy's memories in rands head like LTT's....thats what you were suggesting right, that he recognized the sword of one of the false dragons ishy influenced?

 

as i said earlier the sword being justice doesnt feel right, and seems to me a bit too obvious for a wot book.  it isnt turaks sword either as it was alluded that that was similar to rand's (tam's) sword at the time. i think that were all missing something here, as it is clearly stated the sword was recognized from rand's memories.  it could be something he dreamt of, or even something he read about....maybe once the prologue comes out our questions will be answered...as it is now im chomping at the bit after this teaser....

[RAMb0211]

I'd say there's no way it could be Justice due to this:

"The weapon was long, slightly curved, and the lacquered scabbard was painted with a long, sinuous dragon of red and gold. It looked as if it had been designed specifically for Rand—and yet it was centuries old, unearthed only recently."

So unless Justice was actually LTT's old sword there's no way it was Justice. I'd say it's either Guaire Amalasan's or the third super-powerful sa'angreal.

Does anyone remember if Rand could have possibly seen one of the false dragon's swords when Ishy named them all to him in Baerlon?

[Razor]

There was a famous swordsman that has been mentioned a few times, the one that only lost to a farmer with a stick.  What was his name, Can't remember.  Don's recall if he lived centuries before, but Rand may have read about his sword.

[RAMb0211]

His name was Jearom i believe. I don;t think a power-wrought blade was ever mentioned along with him, but it's always a possibility.