Third Man, Rand/Moridin Link.

[mb]

Modified my comment.

Luckers wasnt trying to prove a theory with that joke either mb. It was purely for amusement and shouldnt be read into whatsoever.

That seems doubtful to me; he seemed serious enough up to that part of the post.

It is best to let people speak for themselves.  That sort of thing cannot be assumed.

 

[Padraic_Seebrr]

It wasn't to prove a point, or even to make a point, it was a joke. Me and Majsju like to take little snipes at each other every now and then. The sheer absurdity of the quote should have made that clear mb. Try to lighten up.

 

He did speak for himself. And it's very easy to assume that was a joke. Lighten up bud.

[Mr Ares]

Modified my comment.

Luckers wasnt trying to prove a theory with that joke either mb. It was purely for amusement and shouldnt be read into whatsoever.

That seems doubtful to me; he seemed serious enough up to that part of the post.

It is best to let people speak for themselves.  That sort of thing cannot be assumed.

Luckers speaking for himself: "Was it the presence of mine and Majsju's names that gave it away mb?

 

It was a joke."

[mb]

It wasn't to prove a point, or even to make a point, it was a joke. Me and Majsju like to take little snipes at each other every now and then. The sheer absurdity of the quote should have made that clear mb. Try to lighten up.

He did speak for himself. And it's very easy to assume that was a joke. Lighten up bud.

That was with my earlier comment.  There might be a chance that he would change his approach when he sees the modified version.

 

[OptimusPrime]

Stop being a clown, you take everything the wrong way for the hell of it.

[Seaine Sedai]

Just curious, is there anything in the Karaethon Cycle specifically that we might have seen that would allude to Rand's link to Moridin?

 

the reason I ask is because the dreams/visions people have had have been so vague that they may or may not refer to the Rand/Moridin connection.  Also because Ishy,  being the great philosopher that he was in his day and age, might have known that this was supposed to happen.  You notice even when he wants to kill LTT/Rand he never really makes any move to actually DO anything to him except stand there and taunt him?  I'll have to re-read that TP/OP Balefire scene that happened there at Shadar Logoth to be sure but I'm not recalling Ishy starting that one, since he HELPED Rand to a degree, even if he wasn't about to kill Sammael for him.

Even though Moridin doesn't seem to keen on the effects anymore than Rand this has something of a "planned" feel to it.  To me, at least.

[Luckers]

No, there is nothing in the Karetheon Cycle as far as we know. There have been various dreams and viewings that may or may not reference it, but none Moridin would have access to.

 

Besides Moridin seems to have been completely blindsided by this, and he orders Rand's death after the link is formed, which may have some fairly hazerdous effects on his health--an order he recinds after the link grows strong enough to be known as a link (and not just extreme nausia).

[Mr Ares]

There might be a chance that he would change his approach when he sees the modified version.

No chance in hell. Your edit changed nothing, because it was clear, to everyone but yourself, that it was intended as a joke and nothing more.

[OptimusPrime]

Even though Moridin doesn't seem to keen on the effects anymore than Rand this has something of a "planned" feel to it.  To me, at least

 

I see the planned side of it, I see what you mean, but I dont think Moridin planned it. I think the Pattern made circumstances lead to it. The one time Rand meets Ishamael in his new body, they walk away connected to each other. It just so happens that that link might just enable the saviour of the world to get out of his half-crippled body in time to do his best stuff. It smacks of Ta'veren to me.

[ROB_88]

damn you luckers.

i almost thought you were posting big spoilers when i saw you "epilouge" of TGS.

i didn't really car to read the rest but that part almost made me leave and scream "no no no, i am not listening, damn spoilers," atleast until i saw yours and Majsus name in there.

pretty funny actually

[mb]

So this whole theory is a joke?

If so, such things should not be joked about.

 

[Mr Ares]

So this whole theory is a joke?

No, just the end bit. Serious theory with a joke at the end. At least I hope so, because typing all that up just for a joke is just scary.

If so, such things should not be joked about.

Of ocurse they should.

[Matrim DeLaneous]

No, there is nothing in the Karetheon Cycle as far as we know. There have been various dreams and viewings that may or may not reference it, but none Moridin would have access to.

Does anyone know if the writings [from the 4th age, etc, that appear at the beginning and/or the end of the books]are located anywhere on the site? 

 

 

[Luckers]

No, there is nothing in the Karetheon Cycle as far as we know. There have been various dreams and viewings that may or may not reference it, but none Moridin would have access to.

Does anyone know if the writings [from the 4th age, etc, that appear at the beginning and/or the end of the books]are located anywhere on the site? 

 

 

 

They are availliable on the WoT FAQ.

http://www.siliconcerebrate.com/faqs/wotfaq/4_prophecy/index.html

[Bastor]

I have my own little theory I have devised while being bored out of my mind in school. Ok, this might just blow your mind. Rand is in TG, fighting the Dark One, when he suddenly comes to the point where he has to "die" according to prophecy. So he dies, and then since hes a Hero of the Horn, goes to T.A.R. Now remember, before Birgitte was Elayne's warder she was in T.A.R., then she was physically pulled out of it. So here it is, Rands chillin in T.A.R., and Elayne pops in with her ring and physically pulls him out. So bam, Rand was dead, then he's pulled out of T.A.R. physically, so hes alive again. And then, if he dies again, same thing! Amazing right?

Yeah....the only problem being is that the way Birg was torn means that she is no longer a part of the wheel nor is she a hero so if she dies it is not sure her soul will be spun again....

If that happens to Rand he will never ever be reborn again essentially dooming the next Last Battle with 100% chance ^^

[Majsju]

I have my own little theory I have devised while being bored out of my mind in school. Ok, this might just blow your mind. Rand is in TG, fighting the Dark One, when he suddenly comes to the point where he has to "die" according to prophecy. So he dies, and then since hes a Hero of the Horn, goes to T.A.R. Now remember, before Birgitte was Elayne's warder she was in T.A.R., then she was physically pulled out of it. So here it is, Rands chillin in T.A.R., and Elayne pops in with her ring and physically pulls him out. So bam, Rand was dead, then he's pulled out of T.A.R. physically, so hes alive again. And then, if he dies again, same thing! Amazing right?

Yeah....the only problem being is that the way Birg was torn means that she is no longer a part of the wheel nor is she a hero so if she dies it is not sure her soul will be spun again....

If that happens to Rand he will never ever be reborn again essentially dooming the next Last Battle with 100% chance ^^

 

Not quite correct. Birgitte is very much a part of the Wheel, everything is. Just as most souls are spun out again and again, just not in as controlloed way as Heroes.

She is most likely not bound to the Wheel as a Hero anymore, because of what Moghedien did, but that is a very different thing.

Now, we have known since the end of TGH that sometimes people become bound to the Wheel, so Birgitte could easily become a Hero again. Just as Rand could be re-bound again to continue being the Dragon.

 

 

[OptimusPrime]

Could Heroes of the Horn simply be previous Ta'veren?

[wotjunkie]

lol very .... lol

 

makes me feel dumb i didnt twig on until i saw shaidar luckers, i was thinking who the hell is Majsju and was about to go back and reread the books to find out when he had been introduced ...  :P

 

i like the body swap theory, to me it fits  in with the rest of the book and appears logical.  :)

[Sentinel78]

I came up with theory independently before I started trolling the forums, but I doubt I ever could have explained it as well as Luckers did.  Are there any threads that go a little bit deeper in terms of the implications of what a bodyswap would mean to the plot?

 

For example, one would expect that Rand's death-prophecies would be fulfilled by Moridin dying in Rand's old body.  However, nothing implies that this death would occur instantly upon the body-swap.  Moridin could infiltrate the Light's forces posing as Rand, just as Rand could infiltrate the Shadow's forces and perhaps even Shayol Ghul itself posing as Moridin.  The Dark One might think he's inviting Moridin down into the Pit of Doom to celebrate the death of the Dragon at the Last Battle, whereas Rand launches some type of surprise attack on the Bore.

 

Also, it would be interesting to see what happens with Rand's bond to Elayne/Min/Aviendha after a body swap.

[Luckers]

Funnily enough, I just reposted my coverage of the Body Swap Theory for Terez of Theoryland.

 

The Body Swap Theory

[Rebop]

Mordrin uses the True Power. Crown of Swords "Suddenly he realized that he had not felt saidin when the made the balefire." The link was not only between Rand and Moridin but between Rand and the True Power. [Removed. Spoilers]What he does differently is use the True Power to touch the Dark one and seal the Dark One away. Plus the clue from earlier in the books 4-6 is Herid note Min uses as a bookmark. " Belief and order give strenght. Have to clear rubble before you can build. Will explain when see you next. Do not bring girl. Too pretty."

 

Edit: Spoilers are still not allowed on this board.

[Luckers]

Plus the clue from earlier in the books 4-6 is Herid note Min uses as a bookmark. " Belief and order give strenght. Have to clear rubble before you can build. Will explain when see you next. Do not bring girl. Too pretty."

 

Nope, Peter Ahlstrom ruled out Herid Fel, his philosophies, and any of his instructions to Rand (including that note) as being the unnoticed thing books 4-6.

[Rebop]

In The Dragon Reborn, Ch. 21, Verin is talking to Egwene. Verin reads a translation from a paper written less than 200 years after the Seal was made.

"Heart of the Dark. Ba'alzamon. Name hidden within name shrouded by name. Secret buried by secret cloaked by secret. Betrayer of Hope. Ishamael betrays all hope. Truth burns and sears. Hope fails before truth. A lie is our shield. Who can stand against the Heart of the Dark?  Who can face the Betrayer of Hope. Soul of Shadow, Soul of Shadow, he is---" I believe it is Rand using the True Power that faces Mordrin and eventually uses the True Power to seal the Dark One. By the way I do not believe Rand can "kill" the Dark One. The Dark One does not have a life to speak of.

[Lacanos]

So this whole theory is a joke?

No, just the end bit. Serious theory with a joke at the end. At least I hope so, because typing all that up just for a joke is just scary.

If so, such things should not be joked about.

Of ocurse they should.

How would you know? You were telling me you have no sense of humour!

Joking...or am I? ;)