Demandred

[Rifty]

Jordan said we have NOT seen Demandred's third-age alias on stage.

 

I'm one of those personally of the opinion that he was originally Taim, but that Jordan changed it when everyone figured it out early on, but that's neither here nor there.

 

The question becomes, is it possible to know who he is? Is there anyone important that's been mentioned that we haven't seen onstage?

 

My personal answer for that is YES. And one name hops right out at me.

 

We know that Dem and Osan'Gar were said to have been given the assignment to keep al'Thor under their thumb. Osy was posted at the Black Tower, so it makes some sense for Demandred to be there as well.

 

And who have we seen mentioned that hasn't been seen onstage?

 

The Black Tower Sword-Master, Henre Haslin. And if memory serves properly, Haslin was there, then left for a while, then came back. The perfect chance for Demandred to take his identity.

 

Anyone? Thoughts? I'm very probably wrong, but I'm curious if anyone says it can't be, and if so, who they think Demandred might be, if anyone even mentioned so far.

 

Thoughts?

 

-Rifty

[Chance]

 

I'm one of those personally of the opinion that he was originally Taim, but that Jordan changed it when everyone figured it out early on, but that's neither here nor there.

 

 

Same here. and yes it doesn't matter anymore.

 

 

We know that Dem and Osan'Gar were said to have been given the assignment to keep al'Thor under their thumb. Osy was posted at the Black Tower, so it makes some sense for Demandred to be there as well.

 

 

Demandred went to Aridhol when Rand & Nyn was cleansing the taint. IMO Dem has stayed in touch with events in the Black Tower, while doing the Great Lords work.  Interesting that Dashiva, at that point in time, would strike at Rand, at Carhein. Anyway, isn't Dem the only one, that hasn't been killed, captured, or given a new body?

 

disclaimer:

I have no evidence of this opinion.

[MatsLuck]

RJ has played this one pretty close to the vest. The podcast discussions came up with a few clues, but its still pretty murky as far as I know. One, he was wearing a fur lined cloak on a visit to the Pit-o-Doom indicating he was somewhere cold. Borderlands? Seanchan? Sammael says events "to the south" have his name written all over them. As Sam was based in Illian, I'm guessing he meant to the south of where he was at the time he said that. I believe he was talking to Graendal in Arad Doman at the time so maybe Tarabon or Amadicia. I think its pretty wide open. My personal belief is that he's Taim's teacher. I've often thought of Demandred as a behind the scenes guy, possibly with his hand in quite a few different things, rather than based in one place. I think he could teach Taim and do that at the same time. In the podcast they mention a dream of Egwene's I believe, where an invisible man is holding a knife to Rand's throat. Taim could be the knife, with Dem the invisible man. Even still, I think its not much better than a shot in the dark.

[Mr Ares]

I'm one of those personally of the opinion that he was originally Taim, but that Jordan changed it when everyone figured it out early on, but that's neither here nor there.

Pretty sure RJ said he didn't change anything because people had guessed it. So that can be ruled out.

 

We know that Dem and Osan'Gar were said to have been given the assignment to keep al'Thor under their thumb. Osy was posted at the Black Tower, so it makes some sense for Demandred to be there as well.

Except we know that as he didn't recognise Damer Flinn, he can't be anyone at the BT. If he was, he would have seen him, and not been surpised at an old guy asha'man.

 

Anyway, isn't Dem the only one, that hasn't been killed, captured, or given a new body?

Of the male Chosen, yes. Of the females, Graendal and Mesaana.

 

I'm of the opinion that Demandred doesn't have a full time alter ego, he just uses proxies.

 

Disclaimer: This post does not represent the views, thoughts or opinions of Mr Ares, his associates or subsidiaries.

[Hybrid]

Q: "Have we yet seen the alter ego Demandred presents to the Third Agers on-screen?"

A: "No." (I asked twice to make sure.)

 

[Michael Martin, Dayton OH signing]

All Demandred theorizers take note.  If Demandred has an alter ego, we haven't seen it yet.

 

I'm of the opinion that Demandred doesn't have a full time alter ego, he just uses proxies.

Agreed.  Sammael certainly seems to think so.  Add that to the fact that pretty much all the major events have been covered on-screen by now (IIRC), it seems as though Demandred either is not involved in the Westlands or is not showing himself to Westlanders.

[Luckers]

Correction to all of you--we havn't seen Demandred's alter ego (if he has one) by Winter's Heart... which was when RJ made this comment.

[Hybrid]

I stand corrected.  I don't think in the timeline of when the books were released since I read everything after KOD came out.  :P

[kamros]

Correction to all of you--we havn't seen Demandred's alter ego (if he has one) by Winter's Heart... which was when RJ made this comment.

 

Maybe we should review all of the new characters presented in the later books?

[Luckers]

Mmm. Frankly I agree with the idea that he's no one. Demandred uses proxies--he's manipulating a bunch of different games. My guess is he's behind the gathering of shadowspawn and probably Roedan too--likely he's even commanding the darkfriend Aes Sedai with the borderlanders.

 

But has he an alias... i really don't think so.

[The Doctor]

I don't think he is behind Taim either, I think that is most likely Moridin, given the red and black floor tiles.  And I very much doubt that Jordan would change a Demandred/Taim alter ego situation because people figured it out, more likely he threw it out there as a red herring to make people think while they red, and revealed it to be false when he saw what a huge Juggernaut of a theory it became.  Or even possibly the similarities between the two were something he just didn't connect until after the theory.  Either way he wouldn't have changed his story for it.  I'm of a mind with the proxy theory.

[mb]

It seems most likely that Demandred is some un-named Ashaman; maybe someone in Taim's faction.

 

[lt;(^-^)gt;]

more likely he threw it out there as a red herring

RJ said he was surprised at the Taimandred theories, so it wasn't a red herring.

 

Sometimes I wonder if he flat out lied, and Taim is Demandred.  That's impossible though...

[Astus]

It seems most likely that Demandred is some un-named Ashaman; maybe someone in Taim's faction.

 

Why would he have not recognised Flinn then?

[mb]

It seems most likely that Demandred is some un-named Ashaman; maybe someone in Taim's faction.

Why would he have not recognised Flinn then?

Some possibilities:

-Demandred spending most time either at head quarters or on missions.

-Flinn around Rand most of the time.

-Demandred arriving at headquarters after Flinn became part of Rand's bodyguard.

 

[OptimusPrime]

I wonder about the Dark Ones comment to Demandred, "would you use balefire?" Does anyone have any clue what that was about?

[Astus]

It seems most likely that Demandred is some un-named Ashaman; maybe someone in Taim's faction.

Why would he have not recognised Flinn then?

Some possibilities:

-Demandred spending most time either at head quarters or on missions.

-Flinn around Rand most of the time.

-Demandred arriving at headquarters after Flinn became part of Rand's bodyguard.

 

But then wouldn't it make sense that Taim would've drilled the descriptions of the Asha'man who were accompanying Rand into his Asha'mans' heads, or surely someone would've mentioned that there was an old man Asha'man around. I'm sure an old man would've stuck out in those descriptions yet Demandred dismissed him entirely as a threat when he first saw him. He saw him simply as a frail old man.

 

Yeah, I said "old man" more times than I probably should have ;P

[albino_dog]

I'm one of those personally of the opinion that he was originally Taim, but that Jordan changed it when everyone figured it out early on, but that's neither here nor there.

Pretty sure RJ said he didn't change anything because people had guessed it. So that can be ruled out

 

I dont see how it can be ruled out just because he said so. RJ would have looked pretty ridiculous if he had actually said "Hey, I meant Demandred to pose as Taim, but I changed it, because everyone figured it out". Of course he'd deny it.

[dholm]

I honestly doubt he changed it. The idea that "everyone figured it out" is ludicrous in the first place -- the vast majority of the readers don't research the books online. Certainly a number of them will have suspected it, but others won't.

 

Thinking that Jordan changed anything in his story simply because it was popular as a theory is silly. It's possible, of course, but I think the idea is a little conceited.

[OptimusPrime]

Yeah, saying he changed it because people figured it out early is like saying "Im right about everything when I first say it, but then the world changes to make me wrong."

[Mr Ares]

I dont see how it can be ruled out just because he said so. RJ would have looked pretty ridiculous if he had actually said "Hey, I meant Demandred to pose as Taim, but I changed it, because everyone figured it out". Of course he'd deny it.

So now you're calling him a liar. And he often hinted at things that were to come. Given that, would he really have been so put out that a small minority had figured out what he planned, given that he was actually hinting at it? The story is planned out, going in a certain direction. I doubt he would change that just because a few people made a lucky guess.

[Rifty]

Yeah, saying he changed it because people figured it out early is like saying "Im right about everything when I first say it, but then the world changes to make me wrong."

 

Well, wait, hold on, that DOES always happen. I AM always right about everything. It's reality that's frequently wrong. Douglas Adams says so!

 

-Rifty

[mb]

But then wouldn't it make sense that Taim would've drilled the descriptions of the Asha'man who were accompanying Rand into his Asha'mans' heads

Maybe at least to the assassins-to-be, if Taim thought such details important to know.  Doubtfully to any other Ashaman.

Or possibly Taim did not have time enough to drill the descriptions and/or might not have remembered enough to make identification.

 

or surely someone would've mentioned that there was an old man Asha'man around.

Maybe no one thought it important to tell.  Or maybe the ones that knew forgot after they returned to training and/or after becoming acquainted with new recruits.

Also, 'old man' could fit a number of people.

 

I'm sure an old man would've stuck out in those descriptions yet Demandred dismissed him entirely as a threat when he first saw him. He saw him simply as a frail old man.

Being in a forest might have some effects to the eyes.

Again, there are a number of old men around.  I take a saidin channeler could only detect the ability to channel in another only when the other channels or seizes the source.  Assuming Flinn was just an old man before Flinn channeled, that I think is/was reasonable.

Also, linking might have effects on detecting the ability to channel.

 

[OptimusPrime]

Quote from: Astus on July 19, 2009, 07:18:55 AM

But then wouldn't it make sense that Taim would've drilled the descriptions of the Asha'man who were accompanying Rand into his Asha'mans' heads

Maybe at least to the assassins-to-be, if Taim thought such details important to know.  Doubtfully to any other Ashaman.

Or possibly Taim did not have time enough to drill the descriptions and/or might not have remembered enough to make identification

 

Or maybe he did pass descriptions on, but not to the people we would expect. Like Wieramon and the other unconfirmed Darkfriends

[mb]

But then wouldn't it make sense that Taim would've drilled the descriptions of the Asha'man who were accompanying Rand into his Asha'mans' heads

Maybe at least to the assassins-to-be, if Taim thought such details important to know.  Doubtfully to any other Ashaman.

Or possibly Taim did not have time enough to drill the descriptions and/or might not have remembered enough to make identification

Or maybe he did pass descriptions on, but not to the people we would expect. Like Wieramon and the other unconfirmed Darkfriends

If Taim passed the descriptions on, it would not necessarily make him a darkfriend.

Like I posted a number of times before, Taim could be using the people to achieve his own plans.

 

[HighLordXanthus]

Has any one offered that Masema is being guided by Demandred?  The man is nuttier then a fruitcake, and it wouldnt take much "whispering in the ear" to push him into him into becoming the prophet.  Not suggesting that he is a darkfriend exactly, just crazy.  It also fits with Sammael's ramblings of "troubles in the south" during his meeting with Graendal in Lord of Chaos.  And I doubt there is another single man at that time who is generating MORE chaos them Masema LOL