Mat's Luck and Channeling

[kamros]

I do not think that the luck came from taveren or the dagger, i still think that the dagger suppressed his luck to a certain point. if it hadn't then we would not have seen such a great jump in luck after he is healed in TV.

 

yes there is a first jump but the first time we see it is in shienar, after moraine stopped the evil from influencing him. it seems to me that he was going to gain the ability to become very lucky anyways since after the dagger starts getting taken away from him his luck returns.

 

I do not think that he was as lucky as people say in EF since he was always getting caught doing things wrong and seemed to get caught doing everything. it was a different kind of lucky, for example: when you try to skip school, if you get away, you were really lucky. something along those lines would seem more likely.

 

Next, there is no evidence for this, it is all speculation and has been said quite a few times in the thread but w/e.

Since Rand starts channeling, which isn't related to Taveren, Perrin becomes a wolf brother, not related to taveren, why couldn't mat be the "lucky" one of them, his own thing to make him special. And when he starts to get these abilities ( somewere before or after SL) they are suppressed by the dagger, perhaps not since he doesn't really dice or do anything else that would require luck while he is sick. but we do know that the Biggest jump is after all influence and power of the dagger is taken away does he become lucky.

Pure Speculation^. but it does seem more likely than the dagger to me.

 

ps- when can we get a spell check that involves Wheel of Time words? ;)

[OptimusPrime]

His abilities are there for corrupting, destroying, and manipulating. He is doin what he damn well wants to further his own greed and hatred. He is fighting Rand atm not the Shadow and if he kills Rand the DO will win. How is that fighting the Shadow? all he is, is a loose cannon thats why the Shadow wants him dead. they don't want him screwing with their plans. His abilities "a bit of something from the DO, perhaps a bit from Aridhol. it had been there after he had stopped being just Padan Fain."

 

Okay, I didnt write that clear enough. I meant Mordeths abilities are there to fight the Shadow and Fain has some now. But even if Fain isnt Mat-lucky, it means nothing against the dagger theory because we have already seen that Fain had some resistance to Mordeth. What Fain uses his abilities for, whether the old or new, are HIS goals. The fact that he still acts on his original goals-to move against Rand-is worth noting. If Mordeth couldnt take over Fain fully, then Fain will most likely have resisted other things from Mordeth. The Shadow in Fain enabled him to retain the majority of himself, so his current actions dont hinder anyones theory, yours or mine.

 

Random is random, pure chance. there are no degrees or levels if its random it is random. both examples were random, subject to chance.

 

Except when Mat is involved. Then random works towards Mat. Ta'veren is not random AT ALL, it is there to restore regularity. If you cant see the difference, then God help you.

 

the same reason why Perrin grew in his abilities as a wolfbrother. the same as why Rand grew in channelling. it wasn't developed fully.

 

But nothing supports this. Mat being normally lucky means absolutely nothing. We saw no signs of Mats different luck until the dagger was involved. Stop ignoring that. Battle luck is not random luck.

 

most of your proof is nothing more than assumptions, smoke screens and stories.( like the whole SL and Mordeth luck anti-taveren fairy tale ) there is no solid proof in anything. you have no fact to back the magical abilities of a man made taint to produce anything involving luck

 

There is more reason to believe that, than there is to believe the dagger supressed his luck. The daggers taint had some involvement in his luck.

 

but than lets see the whole Mat was lucky in EF. he becomes taveren. he gets the dagger which than supresses his luck.( he was fated to get the dagger so it would rot his brain. remember taveren manipulates the individual as it does others to fit the pattern. and as we seen it was a random situation, a chance that Mat took the dagger. thus forcing him to make his choice to go to the doorway in Tear for help. which in turn led him to the doorway in Rhuidean. that was all fated, woven in the web.) no luck is seen to increase as the dagger supresses it. than he is partially healed which allows some luck to come thru. than he is fully healed which allows his luck to finally be realized. his luck grew as Rand's channeling grew. as Perrin's wolfbrother abilities grew.

 

So you're saying Mats luck is raised permanently each time he is Healed? I find that hard to believe, nothing in the series has shown us anything like that. We havent seen anything that gets stronger when the Power is used on it other than Cuindellar, and Mat is not that. We have seen that Aridhols taint was capable of corrupting, yes, and we also saw Mordeth, who was a resident of tainted Shadar Logoth, has powers of his own. Some of which Fain now has, some which he probably wont. I think what was happening to Mat might well have been what happened to Aridhol itself. This would be why Mat ends up benefitting from it, because at the end he (maybe) would have ended up being another Mordeth, with powers as dark as the Shadows, that could oppose the Shadows. Like always benefitting from chaotic situations, which the Forsaken have now been ordered to bring about.

 

Sure, the timing fits for the end of the suppression but the explanation doesnt fit the beginning, and we have no hints that his luck gradually increased and were suppressed.

 

Maybe we all need to reread Eye of the World and the Great Hunt.

 

Next, there is no evidence for this, it is all speculation and has been said quite a few times in the thread but w/e.

Since Rand starts channeling, which isn't related to Taveren, Perrin becomes a wolf brother, not related to taveren, why couldn't mat be the "lucky" one of them, his own thing to make him special. And when he starts to get these abilities ( somewere before or after SL) they are suppressed by the dagger, perhaps not since he doesn't really dice or do anything else that would require luck while he is sick. but we do know that the Biggest jump is after all influence and power of the dagger is taken away does he become lucky.

Pure Speculation^. but it does seem more likely than the dagger to me.

 

Nothing makes us believe his luck might increase though. And we do not see his luck reach epic levels by the last 2 books. We only see him figure out when he can use it, and he realizes he can bring these situations about himself. How lucky he is is not the question; it is, how often does Mat take part in activities with no likely outcomes? You do not see Mat succeed at everything he does by luck, you do not see it all the time. You do not see him be lucky with things like cards. Thats because even when the cards are being shuffled, the order is still a set thing-the order in which the pack is set after shuffled means the cards are dished out in a set order. After that, the set of cards each player ends up with is then decided by what game is played-according to rules, which are not random-and then they are decided yet again by how many players there are. Which is why Mat doesnt get lucky with cards, which he notes to himself. We dont see Mat get the luck in pure random situations until after the dagger was involved somehow.

[Mr Ares]

I do not think that the luck came from taveren or the dagger

Then you deny the eidence.

i still think that the dagger suppressed his luck to a certain point.

That contradicts the facts.

 

yes there is a first jump but the first time we see it is in shienar

But Mat dates it to after SL.

[Phariah]

where is his abnormal luck from when he picked up the dagger?

Shown in Shienar and TV.

ya after he was healed each time, still nothing from after he picked it up

besides the rambling admittance of it's the dagger

He doesn't admit that, troll, as you would no if you actually read the thread. He thinks it might be, but that's not an admittance.

i have read the thread thats how i know your battle cry for the dagger theory has been Mat says it was the dagger as your only proof. and name calling Ares thats quite sad.

and it isn't far fetched to see a tainted object of decay/disease that holds to neither light or shadow corrupting his connection to his luck.

It is farfetched to toss out the evidene in favour of the books, as you so frequently do, in favour of whatever you fancy. He didn't have a connection to his luck, he was just a lucky guy, who got luckier after picking up something from SL, and luckier again after it was Healed. You have said nothing to counter that. Your every point is hollow. Insignificant.

i have used the books as evidence and facts thats how come you no longer use "Mat said it was the dagger" as your only proof. and you have nothing backing the dagger and i have stated my theory and evidence. if you choose to ignore it, that has no bearing on it what so ever. since you have not debunked it i don't see why i shouldn't support it.

so that after Moiraine heals him and wards him, the first time he gambles

If it was the first time he gambled, then you cannot date it to the Healing. Furthermore, why should Healing affect luck? Many are Healed. Mat was, on several occasions - repeatedly on the road to TV, for instance. Mat's luck should have changed frequently during that period, then. It doesn't, according to him. We have nothing to indicate that it does. Changes in his luck do not correlate to his being healed, nor do other Healings correspond to changes in luck. We need something unique to Mat for an effect unique to Mat. It cannot be Healing. Unless you claim this was some sort of special Healing, made ot deal with the dagger...in which case, you admit the dagger's involvement.

ya thats what i said healed and warded, thats what Moiraine did to Mat to help against the dagger. the same dagger that was supressing his luck.

he gets the dagger which than supresses his luck.

No it doesn't. Stop ignoring the evidence. The suppression theory doesn't work. It contradicts the facts. Now, the first time we see Mat gamble is after Healing and after the dagger. Yet Healing, aside from being non-sensical, isn't supported by anything. The dagger is. According to Mat, the timing came after SL, not after Healing or anything else. SL. The dagger. Stop trolling.

why are you contradicting yourself? you just said it wasn't an admitance but now you feel it is to justify your opinion. quote from Ares "he doesn't admit that, troll, as you would no if you actually read the thread. he thinks it might be, but that is not an admittance" unquote.

 

 

 

 

[Phariah]

 

but than lets see the whole Mat was lucky in EF. he becomes taveren. he gets the dagger which than supresses his luck.( he was fated to get the dagger so it would rot his brain. remember taveren manipulates the individual as it does others to fit the pattern. and as we seen it was a random situation, a chance that Mat took the dagger. thus forcing him to make his choice to go to the doorway in Tear for help. which in turn led him to the doorway in Rhuidean. that was all fated, woven in the web.) no luck is seen to increase as the dagger supresses it. than he is partially healed which allows some luck to come thru. than he is fully healed which allows his luck to finally be realized. his luck grew as Rand's channeling grew. as Perrin's wolfbrother abilities grew.

 

So you're saying Mats luck is raised permanently each time he is Healed? I find that hard to believe, nothing in the series has shown us anything like that. We havent seen anything that gets stronger when the Power is used on it other than Cuindellar, and Mat is not that. We have seen that Aridhols taint was capable of corrupting, yes, and we also saw Mordeth, who was a resident of tainted Shadar Logoth, has powers of his own. Some of which Fain now has, some which he probably wont. I think what was happening to Mat might well have been what happened to Aridhol itself. This would be why Mat ends up benefitting from it, because at the end he (maybe) would have ended up being another Mordeth, with powers as dark as the Shadows, that could oppose the Shadows. Like always benefitting from chaotic situations, which the Forsaken have now been ordered to bring about.

 

Sure, the timing fits for the end of the suppression but the explanation doesnt fit the beginning, and we have no hints that his luck gradually increased and were suppressed. .

i don't think you got what i meant. i meant the 2 times he was healed from the dagger. once by Moiraine  and the other in TV. it broke thru the supression to allow some luck thru the first time and was totally removed in TV. i still believe that he was always lucky and taveren altered / mixed / enhance it. it fits that Rand and Perrin were born with special atributes, so would Mat.

[Mr Ares]

ya after he was healed each time, still nothing from after he picked it up.

Except for his statements about when it started.

i have read the thread thats how i know your battle cry for the dagger theory has been Mat says it was the dagger as your only proof.

Then you know nothing. There is a weight of evidence, including timing, people with prolonged contact with SL displaying powers, Mat's thoughts on when it started, the possibility raised it might be the dagger, him thinking it isn't ta'veren as late as KoD.

and name calling Ares thats quite sad.

Sad but true. You are a troll.

 

i have used the books as evidence

No you haven't. You barely even know what's been talked about in the thread.

since you have not debunked it

I have, repeatedly.

ya thats what i said healed and warded, thats what Moiraine did to Mat to help against the dagger. the same dagger that was supressing his luck.

Nothing hints or says that the dagger suppressed his luck, that contradicts the evidence - he got luckier whne he had it, after all. He was Healed on a number of occasions with no corresponding change in luck. Thus your case falls. Timing doesn't fit.

 

why are you contradicting yourself?

I'm not. You're just ignorant. You didn't even read the sentence. I didn't say Mat admitted it was the dagger, I said Mat dates the beginning of his luck to SL, not being Healed. There is no contradiction. You could at least read a post before responding to it. Generally, there is some reasoning behind the placement of punctuation. Full stop ends a sentence.

 

i meant the 2 times he was healed from the dagger. once by Moiraine  and the other in TV.

And all the other times? He shows his luck, then is Healed again, with no change, then repeatedly on the road to TV, still with no change.

it broke thru the supression

There is no suppression.

i still believe that he was always lucky and taveren altered / mixed / enhance it.

Timing doesn't fit - he became lucky some time after he became ta'veren.

[Phariah]

ya after he was healed each time, still nothing from after he picked it up.

Except for his statements about when it started.

your proof is from the same rambling in which he said that the dagger gave him the luck, same as he said the AS gave him the luck by healing and the same in which he said he had no idea. as he thinks "he knew he was lucky. he could remember always being lucky." than later "the luck had come once he took the dagger from SL." the same sentence that as you have said is not an admittance that the dagger caused the luck. since i proved it wasn't. and now you use that as an admittance  his luck came from SL as a timing issue. so you can pick and choose what you want to fit your opinion huh?  :o  :D

i have read the thread thats how i know your battle cry for the dagger theory has been Mat says it was the dagger as your only proof.

Then you know nothing. There is a weight of evidence, including timing, people with prolonged contact with SL displaying powers, Mat's thoughts on when it started, the possibility raised it might be the dagger, him thinking it isn't ta'veren as late as KoD.

timing; debunked useless as his statement saying it was the dagger, no luck seen till far in the future after Moiraine attempted to seperate the dagger from Mat

people with prolonged exposure to SL; huh?!?! there is only one proven and that is Fain he could be unique and it could be from being melded with Mordeth so it still isn't proof. no proof on Mat. so who are these people?

Mat's thoughts; see timing issue

possibility it was dagger; see timing issue

so basically the weight of evidence is just your opinion and assumptions which = no fact  ;) :D

since you have not debunked it

I have, repeatedly.

nope you still haven't  :P :D

ya thats what i said healed and warded, thats what Moiraine did to Mat to help against the dagger. the same dagger that was supressing his luck.

Nothing hints or says that the dagger suppressed his luck, that contradicts the evidence - he got luckier whne he had it, after all. He was Healed on a number of occasions with no corresponding change in luck. Thus your case falls. Timing doesn't fit.

yes he was healed numerous times by Verin but that was to keep his health up she knew she couldn't heal him from the dagger. there has been only 2 attempts to heal him from the dagger Moiraine and TV.

why are you contradicting yourself?

I'm not. You're just ignorant. You didn't even read the sentence. I didn't say Mat admitted it was the dagger, I said Mat dates the beginning of his luck to SL, not being Healed. There is no contradiction. You could at least read a post before responding to it. Generally, there is some reasoning behind the placement of punctuation. Full stop ends a sentence.

:o you still are contradicting yourself. he says it was SL in the same sentence as he says it is the dagger since one isn't fact the other sure isn't. so again you pick and choose to suit your opinion. no fact.  :D :D

i meant the 2 times he was healed from the dagger. once by Moiraine  and the other in TV.

And all the other times? He shows his luck, then is Healed again, with no change, then repeatedly on the road to TV, still with no change.

again Verin knew she couldn't heal him from the dagger she was just trying to keep him alive healing his body as much as she could.

it broke thru the supression

There is no suppression.

yes there was

i still believe that he was always lucky and taveren altered / mixed / enhance it.

Timing doesn't fit - he became lucky some time after he became ta'veren.

yes it does

[Demon_AS]

It doesn't make sense for Mat to be lucky as a result of a near-death experience due to the taint of Shadar Logoth.

 

What does make sense is what we already know, that he is ta'veren. Ta'veren influence chance - as evidenced by Rand, who has been hinted as being the strongest ta'veren ever. Mat and Perrin, then, are simply less strong, but no less ta'veren for it. So, ok, no one's going to leap from 40 feet and survive around Mat, as they do around Rand, but the (relatively) simple altering of chance to allow for dice to always land favourably...? That seems well within the scope of being ta'veren.

 

I also think that being ta'veren manifests itself differently, based on the need of the individual and the need of the Pattern. As a gambler, Mat needs to be lucky to win - and he needed to win all those coins in TDR to get out of Tar Valon, so his being ta'veren just added to what he already had. The Pattern needed him out of Tar Valon, too, in order to get him to Tear. So, that is what happened - the Pattern bent itself around him, giving him enough luck to win enough to get out of Tar Valon.

 

For Perrin, the Pattern again bends to give him what he needs - he "met" Elyas by complete chance, and it happened at exactly the time he needed in order to understand his kinship with the Wolves. Again:

 

Need + Ta'veren = "Luck"

 

I reckon that formula works for most cases :).

[Alghar Khan]

So? We don't know how many times in that period Mat did it. Maybe he did it ten times. That's abnormally lucky. And Mat himself notes the increase in his luck.

The average person would be expected to win 4 or 5 times. He was "always" luckier than average, even in Emond's Field.

 

Mat's luck and his ta'veren are not the same thing. His luck helps him win at dice. His ta'veren does other things.

He was lucky in Emond's Field. He was "always" lucky... Why was Hawkwing lucky?

 

We've got nothing happening at that particular time in the story that can confirm Mat's suspicions.

Nothing that denies them either. So all you're doing is ignoring evidence in the books in favour of your own crackpot theory.

No, I'm not ignoring evidence. There is no evidence to ignore.

 

His luck came in three stages. Before SL. With the dagger. After the Healing. Each better than the last.

Three stages? It could be a gradual thing for all we know. Or, it could be before leaving EF, after leaving EF, after being healed "a little", and then...   ***BAM!***   BEING HEALED IN TAR VALON !!!

 

[Alghar Khan]

If he would win 6 or 8 times in a row at 10 separate occasions, then he would also win at least 10 times in a row. So he should have said "there were times with Hurin when I won 8 or 10 times in a row". He didn't, instead he said "6 or 8 times".

[Alghar Khan]

Regarding dicing 60 tosses every day during 10 days…

 

Extremely long “waves of luck”:

(“10 times in a row or more” during ten days of Mat’s lucky gambling -

adding at most 4 in any direction)

10*47/55*0.1875=1.60

 

0.1875 comes from the probability that we can add another 4 winning tosses to the series of 6.

 

This would therefore mean that Mat should experience at least 1 or 2 occasions of “10 in a row or more” during a period of 10 days. He should have said “there were times with Hurin when I won 8 or 10 times in a row”.

 

 

[Alghar Khan]

“Waves of luck” that spans 6 tosses in a row:

 

“Average luck” means that ”6 or more in a row” will be expected 4.4 times during 10 days. Enhanced luck, corresponding to 10 times, means that times of average luck is responsible for 4.1 times and that times of enhanced luck is responsible for 5.9 times. The series of 10 in a row (among 60 every day) means 51 possible “places” for them to occur.

 

If the 6 in a row occur somewhere in the middle of the dicing, we can build on the series on both sides. We can have win/win on both sides, lose/lose, and so on…

 

On each side:

Lose  0.5

Win, lose  0.25   

Win, win, lose  0.125

Win, win, win, lose  0.0625

Win, win, win, win, lose  0.03125

Win, win, win, win, win, lose  0.015625

… and so on …

 

How likely is it that we can add even more winning tosses to “6 in a row or more” (?):

0?  0.5*0.5=0.25

1?  2*0.5*0.25=0.25

2?  0.25*0.25+2*0.5*0.125=0.1875

3?  2*0.25*0.125+2*0.5*0.0625=0.125

…

4 or more? =1-(0.25+0.25+0.1875+0.125)=0.1875

 

 

With this enhanced luck (ten times during ten days), how many times can we expect “10 in a row or more” (?):

(contribution from periods of “normal luck” – adding at most 2 in any direction)

49/53*((600-36)/600)*10*(0.2656*(0.25)*(2*0.5^2*0.5+0.25)+0.2656*(0.5*0.5)*(0.5^2))=0.43

(contribution from periods of “Mat’s luck” – adding at most 2 in any direction)

51/55*5.9*0.1875=1.03

(“10 times in a row or more” during ten days of Mat’s lucky gambling)

0.43+1.03=1.46

 

This would therefore mean that Mat should experience at least 1 or 2 occasions of “10 in a row or more” during a period of 10 days. He should have said “there were times with Hurin when I won 8 or 10 times in a row”.

 

[Alghar Khan]

“Waves of luck” that spans 4 tosses in a row:

 

On each side:

Lose  0.5

Win, lose  0.25   

Win, win, lose  0.125

Win, win, win, lose  0.0625

Win, win, win, win, lose  0.03125

Win, win, win, win, win, lose  0.015625

… and so on …

 

How likely is it that we can add even more winning tosses to “4 in a row or more” (?):

0?  0.5*0.5=0.25

1?  2*0.5*0.25=0.25

2?  0.25*0.25+2*0.5*0.125=0.1875

3?  2*0.25*0.125+2*0.5*0.0625=0.125

4?  0.125*0.125+2*0.25*0.0625+2*0.5*0.03125=0.078125

5?  2*0.125*0.0625+2*0.25*0.03125+2*0.5*0.015625=0.046875

…

6 or more? =1-(0.25+0.25+0.1875+0.125+0.078125+0.046875)=0.0625

 

 

(“6 times in a row or more” during ten days of Mat’s lucky gambling –

adding at most 2 in any direction)  “X are the episodes of luck during 10 days”

53/57*(0.25+2*0.5^2*0.5)*X=5.9

     X=12.7

 

With this enhanced luck (ten times during ten days), how many times can we expect “10 in a row or more” (?):

(contribution from periods of “Mat’s luck” – adding at most 6 or 3/4/5/6 in any direction)

12.7*(45/57*0.0625+6/57*0.25*0.25*0.25+8/57*0.25*0.25*0.5^2+10/57*0.25*0.5^4+12/57*0.5^6)=0.75

(contribution from periods of “normal luck” – adding at most 2 in any direction)

49/53*((600-(12.7*4))/600)*10*(0.2656*(0.25)*(2*0.5^2*0.5+0.25)+0.2656*(0.5*0.5)*(0.5^2))=0.42

 

(“10 times in a row or more” during ten days of Mat’s lucky gambling)

0.42+0.75=1.17

 

 

This would therefore mean that Mat should experience at least 1 or 2 occasions of “10 in a row or more” during a period of 10 days. He should have said “there were times with Hurin when I won 8 or 10 times in a row”.

 

[Alghar Khan]

I've taken some things from the calculations that I did before in this thread. So I didn't explain where I got everything from. I skipped some of the smaller probabilities, since they were much smaller than the rest and would complicate things unnecessarily. The likelyhood of 10 in a row is actually just a little bit higher than my numbers. Still, the numbers I've given here should be fairly close to the real deal.

 

[Alghar Khan]

53/57, for instance, comes from 57 ways of placing "4 in a row" among 60 tosses. Adding 2 at most in any direction gives 57-2*2=53.

 

The periods of "normal luck" are based only on the series of 8 in a row that came from "no losses in either end" when I made the calculations on average luck. I skipped the rest, since they were much smaller probabilities.

 

[Thor]

you guys are just repeating yorselves over and over again, so i might as well join in too.

 

rand: met lanfear, began channeling.

perrin: met elyas, began mutating into wolfbrother.

mat: met mordeth, began becoming lucky.

 

3 taveren, parallel paths, simple.  their abilities are either due to their genes or due to their tavereness, there is nothing complicated or befuddling about this.

 

the dagger's role in mat's luck is as much as lanfear's in rand's channeling, they are simply precursors, not the cause.  their abilities were dormant from the moment they were born.

[Demon_AS]

you guys are just repeating yorselves over and over again, so i might as well join in too.

 

rand: met lanfear, began channeling.

perrin: met elyas, began mutating into wolfbrother.

mat: met mordeth, began becoming lucky.

 

3 taveren, parallel paths, simple.  their abilities are either due to their genes or due to their tavereness, there is nothing complicated or befuddling about this.

 

the dagger's role in mat's luck is as much as lanfear's in rand's channeling, they are simply precursors, not the cause.  their abilities were dormant from the moment they were born.

Didn't Rand begin to channel before he met Selene?

[dholm]

Rand began channeling in The Eye of the World, months before he ever met any of the Chosen, especially Lanfear. He specifically began channeling in Emond's Field, the night after Winternight, as he was leaving with Moiraine, Lan, Mat, Perrin, Egwene and Thom. Egwene was riding Bela, Tam's farm horse, and they were riding hard. Rand was worried she'd fall back, and unconsciously, he channeled strength into Bela so she could keep up.

 

As for Perrin, he would probably have become a Wolfbrother without ever meeting Elyas; you don't require a guide to become one. Elyas himself is proof of that, as is that poor fellow Perrin meets in TDR.

[Durinax]

quick note on something, we saw 2 wolfbrothers in a relatively short time, and now we havent seen one forever. . . I wonder if we will see a few more show up before the LB

[Demon_AS]

Rand began channeling in The Eye of the World, months before he ever met any of the Chosen, especially Lanfear. He specifically began channeling in Emond's Field, the night after Winternight, as he was leaving with Moiraine, Lan, Mat, Perrin, Egwene and Thom. Egwene was riding Bela, Tam's farm horse, and they were riding hard. Rand was worried she'd fall back, and unconsciously, he channeled strength into Bela so she could keep up.

 

As for Perrin, he would probably have become a Wolfbrother without ever meeting Elyas; you don't require a guide to become one. Elyas himself is proof of that, as is that poor fellow Perrin meets in TDR.

Exactly.

 

And Mat's "luck" is only focused on after his link with the dagger is removed - true - but then again, he was the one who blew the Horn of Valere in TGH. That's a bit lucky, if you ask me :P.

 

I don't think it's possible to suggest when his luck manifested itself - just that it becomes more obvious once he's split from Rand.

[Thor]

Rand began channeling in The Eye of the World, months before he ever met any of the Chosen, especially Lanfear. He specifically began channeling in Emond's Field, the night after Winternight, as he was leaving with Moiraine, Lan, Mat, Perrin, Egwene and Thom. Egwene was riding Bela, Tam's farm horse, and they were riding hard. Rand was worried she'd fall back, and unconsciously, he channeled strength into Bela so she could keep up.

 

As for Perrin, he would probably have become a Wolfbrother without ever meeting Elyas; you don't require a guide to become one. Elyas himself is proof of that, as is that poor fellow Perrin meets in TDR.

 

you can say that mat was lucky before he left the two rivers also, and perrin could always see better in the dark.  but none of them were actively aware of their abilities until later.

[Demon_AS]

Rand began channeling in The Eye of the World, months before he ever met any of the Chosen, especially Lanfear. He specifically began channeling in Emond's Field, the night after Winternight, as he was leaving with Moiraine, Lan, Mat, Perrin, Egwene and Thom. Egwene was riding Bela, Tam's farm horse, and they were riding hard. Rand was worried she'd fall back, and unconsciously, he channeled strength into Bela so she could keep up.

 

As for Perrin, he would probably have become a Wolfbrother without ever meeting Elyas; you don't require a guide to become one. Elyas himself is proof of that, as is that poor fellow Perrin meets in TDR.

 

you can say that mat was lucky before he left the two rivers also, and perrin could always see better in the dark.  but none of them were actively aware of their abilities until later.

Actually, I think Perrin does mention that his eye-sight was never as good as it was after he left the Two Rivers. You should consider re-reading TEotW and TGH - I believe he's thinking about it during one of those books.

[Mr. Dragon]

I think Perrin mentions his eye sight not being as good as Rand's before becoming a wolf-brother at some point, but i'm unsure.

[Durinax]

Rand notes perrins eyes when they arrive in Shienar and see the farm, saying something like I never saw any rust on the sickle and my eyes were always better than perrins, at least before they where

[dholm]

Exactly. Back in Emond's Field, Mat had the best eyes, followed by Rand. Perrin's eyes weren't nearly as good. But in Shienar, Rand notices how Perrin can see rust on a scythe Rand can only just see, and not well enough to spot even a spec of rust.