Who is more deadly - Shannow or Mandragoran?

[NZ Warder]

I was wondering about this last night. Who is the more deadly fighter out of Jon Shannow from David Gemmell and Lan Mandragoran from Robert Jordan? Taking into account their different worlds and weapons of course. Who would you least like to face? Both seem to have a similar lack of regard for their lives and are not afraid to die - in fact they seem to welcome the chance.

[Ashaman Kovan]

Semantics. But out of bias i'm going to go with Lan. Since i've never heard of the other guy.

 

How about Richard Rahl and his additive and subtractive magic + The Sword of Truth against Lan? EH ehhhhh  ;)

[Titan Orion]

Not a fair fight at all. Even though Richard never learns to use his magic properly (although I didnt bother finishing the series) Richard has the sword, which gives him the skill of its previous users. Better to ask who would win between Richard and Rand because they are exactly the same person, only one guy did it right and the other tried to change him to hide the stolen protagonist.

 

Who do you think would win out of... Moridin using the True Power and Terry Goodkind endlessy saying that he has never read WoT?

[Hybrid]

As powerful as Moridin is, he still serves the Father of Lies.

[Ashaman Kovan]

Not a fair fight at all. Even though Richard never learns to use his magic properly (although I didnt bother finishing the series) Richard has the sword, which gives him the skill of its previous users. Better to ask who would win between Richard and Rand because they are exactly the same person, only one guy did it right and the other tried to change him to hide the stolen protagonist.

 

Who do you think would win out of... Moridin using the True Power and Terry Goodkind endlessy saying that he has never read WoT?

 

TG would win. Then he would sell the story to ABC so they could make something horrible out if it in a mass conspiracy to destroy the minds of television watchers everywhere.

 

I do stick to my guns though when I say that I am a fan of "The Sword of Truth" series. More the first....four books, probably, then the rest really, but still.

 

P.S. Richard learns to use his magic properly in the last...Uhhh....About 3 pages of the last book lol.

[The Doctor]

Lan is a super bad ass that connot be beaten by conventional means.  The only characters worthy of facing him are Conan the Cimmerian and Achilles. Oh and possibly Jason Bourne. That's one Mexican standoff I'd like to see filmed.

[Mr Ares]

You left Mr Ares of your list, Doctor.

[Titan Orion]

As powerful as Moridin is, he still serves the Father of Lies.

 

Who ones master is doesnt usually affect ones fighting abilities.

 

I do stick to my guns though when I say that I am a fan of "The Sword of Truth" series

 

The first few seemed really colorful and solid. Wizards First Rule was great I thought, Stone of Tears went downhill because Chase left, blah blah blah, then I read Wheel of Time and realised what a scam Sword of Truth really is. The only original idea Goodkind had-the ONLY one-is Gratch. You wont find an equivalent of Gratch in Wheel of Time, but everything else... Check this out. Jagang the Dreamwalker  possesses people. Why hes called a Dreamwalker I dont know. Smart character, but why Dreamwalker? Oh, thats right, because its in Wheel of Time.

 

How about Ishamael vs Ashen-Shugar?

[sketching sedai]

Not sure about this other guy but Lan is about as good as it gets without using magic. In new spring he killed like six people at once! Moiraine and nyneave are lucky women.  ;)

[Hybrid]

As powerful as Moridin is, he still serves the Father of Lies.

 

Who ones master is doesnt usually affect ones fighting abilities.

 

 

You didn't get it...  :'(

 

Who do you think would win out of... Moridin using the True Power and Terry Goodkind endlessy saying that he has never read WoT?

[Kaznen]

Whenever some one does the SoT is a cheap ripoff of WoT thing I feel compelled to point out the same could be said of WoT v Dune.

 

In fact, WoT has more in common with Dune the SoT has in common with WoT.

 

Now people are going to be mad I pointed this out.

[Luckers]

Kaznan, RJ may have been influenced by Tolkien and Herbert, but he did not steal from them. There is a distinct voice, and a distinct history and world to the Wheel, and yes you can feel elements of those that influenced RJ, but thats very different to plagerism.

 

SoT was not influenced by the Wheel. SoT mirrors the Wheel, and Ayn Rand too. You can see it in the simple fact that when boiled down all that happens in each book is that Richard is seperated from Kahlan and fights to be back with her--over and over and over again. The complex aspects of his world are those drawn from other stories, and you can see them--those that he creates himself are simplistic and stupid--like the chicken-which-isn't-a-chicken-because-its-a-plot-device.

 

Goodkind is an incompetant hack who uses other peoples work to give his own one dimensional storeylines depth.

[Kaznen]

Kaznan, RJ may have been influenced by Tolkien and Herbert, but he did not steal from them. There is a distinct voice, and a distinct history and world to the Wheel, and yes you can feel elements of those that influenced RJ, but thats very different to plagerism.

 

SoT was not influenced by the Wheel. SoT mirrors the Wheel, and Ayn Rand too. You can see it in the simple fact that when boiled down all that happens in each book is that Richard is seperated from Kahlan and fights to be back with her--over and over and over again. The complex aspects of his world are those drawn from other stories, and you can see them--those that he creates himself are simplistic and stupid--like the chicken-which-isn't-a-chicken-because-its-a-plot-device.

 

Goodkind is an incompetant hack who uses other peoples work to give his own one dimensional storeylines depth.

Told you people would get mad.  they always ignore the fact Rand/Paul, Bene Gessit/Aes Sedai, and Freman/Aiel are inter-changeable between the two series.

[Ashaman Kovan]

Whatever anyone wants to say about TG and him "Stealing" from RJ, the SoT was a great read for the first 3 or 4 books. Until I discovered WoT. When I was a kid though, SoT and the Dragonlance Chronicles are what really got me started in fantasy. So even though WoT is far, far better than the SoT i'll always have a bit of a soft spot for the SoT series. Despite it's many flaws.

 

But I mean really, there are only so many ideas for orders of people with mystical powers. Only so many ideas for said powers. I don't really feel like TG stole from RJ, but my biggest complaint is that every book after Blood of the Fold felt like I was sitting in church getting preached at every other chapter.

[Barmacral]

Kaznan, RJ may have been influenced by Tolkien and Herbert, but he did not steal from them. There is a distinct voice, and a distinct history and world to the Wheel, and yes you can feel elements of those that influenced RJ, but thats very different to plagerism.

 

SoT was not influenced by the Wheel. SoT mirrors the Wheel, and Ayn Rand too. You can see it in the simple fact that when boiled down all that happens in each book is that Richard is seperated from Kahlan and fights to be back with her--over and over and over again. The complex aspects of his world are those drawn from other stories, and you can see them--those that he creates himself are simplistic and stupid--like the chicken-which-isn't-a-chicken-because-its-a-plot-device.

 

Goodkind is an incompetant hack who uses other peoples work to give his own one dimensional storeylines depth.

Told you people would get mad.  they always ignore the fact Rand/Paul, Bene Gessit/Aes Sedai, and Freman/Aiel are inter-changeable between the two series.

 

Both RJ and Herbert can provide sources to back up all of those, some are the same, some are not. Your statement is wrong.

[Kaznen]

Kaznan, RJ may have been influenced by Tolkien and Herbert, but he did not steal from them. There is a distinct voice, and a distinct history and world to the Wheel, and yes you can feel elements of those that influenced RJ, but thats very different to plagerism.

 

SoT was not influenced by the Wheel. SoT mirrors the Wheel, and Ayn Rand too. You can see it in the simple fact that when boiled down all that happens in each book is that Richard is seperated from Kahlan and fights to be back with her--over and over and over again. The complex aspects of his world are those drawn from other stories, and you can see them--those that he creates himself are simplistic and stupid--like the chicken-which-isn't-a-chicken-because-its-a-plot-device.

 

Goodkind is an incompetant hack who uses other peoples work to give his own one dimensional storeylines depth.

Told you people would get mad.  they always ignore the fact Rand/Paul, Bene Gessit/Aes Sedai, and Freman/Aiel are inter-changeable between the two series.

 

Both RJ and Herbert can provide sources to back up all of those, some are the same, some are not. Your statement is wrong.

Sources?  You all know this is fiction and not real?  And I didn't say Jordan ever stole anything.  But, WoT and Dune have much more in common then WoT and SoT.

 

It's just how can you accuse TG of stealing from Jordan when the two have little in common (except common genre themes) and WoT reads a lot like Dune in a Fantasy setting instead of Sci-Fi.

[Hybrid]

WoT reads a lot like Dune in a Fantasy setting instead of Sci-Fi.

Disagreed.  I won't deny that there are similarities - there are.  I won't even deny that RJ might have been inspired by parts of Dune - some of the similarities may even suggest as much.  But WoT does not, at all, read like Dune in a fantasy setting.  Just as it does not, at all, read like LOTR in a different fantasy setting (though I will grant that the beginning of TEOTW does).

[The Doctor]

My humble apologies Mr. Ares, I'm not sure how you slipped my mind.

 

Titan Orion, I believe the statement was meant to say that TG IS the Father of Lies, so Moridin already serves him.

 

Who would win, Rand vs. Raistlin?  My money's on Raistlin, he did kill a god at one point after all.

[Hybrid]

Titan Orion, I believe the statement was meant to say that TG IS the Father of Lies, so Moridin already serves him.

It was my attempt at humor.  You may disregard it...  :'(

[bjclinton]

If you're going to compare Epic Fantasy fighters to one another, its gotta be Lan vs. Drizzt or bust.

 

I'm as big as a Lan fan as you'll find and i'm not quite sure who'd walk away from that one. No one does a fight scene better than RA Sal and Drizzt is the best he's come up with.

[destroyer of rockets]

Definatly Lan. He is most likely Chuck Norris reborn, so he can not be beat. :D

[Titan Orion]

I dunno on that one, Drizzt has supernatural abilities and magic swords and whatnot, swords that werent just made by magic.

[Mr Ares]

Not sure about this other guy but Lan is about as good as it gets without using magic. In new spring he killed like six people at once!

Improbable feats of "badassery" are a staple of the fantasy genre. Take Cnaiur, the Most Violent of All Men. He comes from a culture with a tradition whereby people scar their arms each time they kill someone. These scars are called swazond. His arms are, as you might guess, very scarred. Then, after giving this speech: "Listen to me. I will not lie to you. We all die this night! I know nothing of your Afterlife, or of your Gods or their greed for glory. But I do know this: In days to come, widows shall curse me as they weep! Fields shall go to seed! Sons and daughters shall be sold into slavery! Fathers shall die desolate, knowing their line is extinct! This night, thousands shall cry out for want of my mercy!" he goes into battle. A line later in the chapter is "He had not the arms for the swazond he earned that night." He killed so many people, he doesn't have room enough for all those scars. And he's not even the best fighter in the trilogy (Prince of Nothing).

 

Lan, Cnaiur, Uther Doul, nigh on everyone in Malazan Book of the Fallen (Kalam, Whiskeyjack, Rake, Dassem, Cotillion, to name but a few), and so many more. Serein Gio, granted immortality because he was the best swordsman in the world (and was for a couple of centuries), and Wrenn, the man who beat him and took his immortality, Ganner Rhysode, Cohen the Barbarian, Greebo, Beowulf, Turin Turambar (hell, the Silmarillion is stuffed full of them), Sandor Clegane, the Bloody Nine, and too many more to name. There's really no shortage of people who are as tough as it's humanly possible to be, then ten times tougher again.

 

Told you people would get mad.  they always ignore the fact Rand/Paul, Bene Gessit/Aes Sedai, and Freman/Aiel are inter-changeable between the two series.

No, you just ignore the massive differences between them.

[Luckers]

Kaznan, RJ may have been influenced by Tolkien and Herbert, but he did not steal from them. There is a distinct voice, and a distinct history and world to the Wheel, and yes you can feel elements of those that influenced RJ, but thats very different to plagerism.

 

SoT was not influenced by the Wheel. SoT mirrors the Wheel, and Ayn Rand too. You can see it in the simple fact that when boiled down all that happens in each book is that Richard is seperated from Kahlan and fights to be back with her--over and over and over again. The complex aspects of his world are those drawn from other stories, and you can see them--those that he creates himself are simplistic and stupid--like the chicken-which-isn't-a-chicken-because-its-a-plot-device.

 

Goodkind is an incompetant hack who uses other peoples work to give his own one dimensional storeylines depth.

Told you people would get mad.  they always ignore the fact Rand/Paul, Bene Gessit/Aes Sedai, and Freman/Aiel are inter-changeable between the two series.

 

That's not me mad. You realise that, right?

 

I mean its a neat defence 'people get mad at me for saying this, therefore their differing opinion is nothing but a tantrum...'

 

But yeah, no. I'm pretty sure you've been around long enough to know when I'm mad. This is just me saying you're wrong.

[Kaznen]

Kaznan, RJ may have been influenced by Tolkien and Herbert, but he did not steal from them. There is a distinct voice, and a distinct history and world to the Wheel, and yes you can feel elements of those that influenced RJ, but thats very different to plagerism.

 

SoT was not influenced by the Wheel. SoT mirrors the Wheel, and Ayn Rand too. You can see it in the simple fact that when boiled down all that happens in each book is that Richard is seperated from Kahlan and fights to be back with her--over and over and over again. The complex aspects of his world are those drawn from other stories, and you can see them--those that he creates himself are simplistic and stupid--like the chicken-which-isn't-a-chicken-because-its-a-plot-device.

 

Goodkind is an incompetant hack who uses other peoples work to give his own one dimensional storeylines depth.

Told you people would get mad.  they always ignore the fact Rand/Paul, Bene Gessit/Aes Sedai, and Freman/Aiel are inter-changeable between the two series.

 

That's not me mad. You realise that, right?

 

I mean its a neat defence 'people get mad at me for saying this, therefore their differing opinion is nothing but a tantrum...'

 

But yeah, no. I'm pretty sure you've been around long enough to know when I'm mad. This is just me saying you're wrong.

You would be surpised at sime of the response I've gotten when I point out Freman are the deadlyist warriors in the universe and they are from a desert planet.  And Aiel are the deadiest warriors in the world and they live in a desert region and the two more or less act the same to the point if you gave an Aielman a stillsuit and crysknife and a Freman a Cardisor and spear you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

 

But the Maidens of the Spear of Wot have little in common with the Mord Sith of SoT and the Sisters of Light are nothing like the AS (don't see AS training boys to channel, do you?)