Asmodean forever

[Thorum]

Who killed Asmo, when, where, why and how.

 

Just to make it easier to understand the discussion. I don't think I'm the only one who can't follow any longer.

[Jarred Darque]

Well. the when and where are pretty easy, in the dining room. I think it was colonel mustard with the candlestick though.

 

In all reality though, we know when and where, the major problems are who and how?

 

Well, the death seemed kinda quick and not messy at all (There was no trace he was killed) the means of his death where not detected, of course I dont know that there where any female channelers around, but at least rand did not feel the use of either source, or it was not mentioned, and I think during those circumstances, he woulda noticed and been very keen to its use...kinda paranoid.

 

So I am gonna have to say that it was with the use of the true power or perhaps some other strange force of the DO. This really leads to two people, Shadar Haren and Moridin. We know hte later is an avid user of the true power, just like he used it alot before he died and was reborn.

 

Some people have argued that he wasnt introduced yet, but I argue that that doesnt mean anything. Just because someone hasnt been introduced doesnt mean that they dont exist yet and arent already at work behind the seens. Just that their identity for-the-moment is kept secret from us.

 

Basically, I feel that it was Moridin, or perhaps Shadar Heran, but I lean towards the first one. I dont think he would be happy with a 'traitor' forsaken or with Rand learning all that those from the AOL know. Knowledge IS power Moridin wants to be the most powerful, and from book 8 at least seems he has attained that goal through being Nae'blis. He must stay alive to maintain his power and thus may not want Rand to be able to easily handle him in the event of a confrontation.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Kadere]

there's a 95 page "Who Killed Asmodean" thread just below this one. Do we need another?

[Cybertrolloc]

Plus there's a poll but it lacks the real killer: Narg. Hope your thread makes it to 95 pages too.

[Incubate]

it was one of the Forsaken....

 

 

he obviously recoginized the person who killed him, and it was a forsaken who taught Nyneave and Elayne how to hide thier ability to channel and thier weaves...

 

 

I personnally think that it was Mogy who killed him, because she hadn't been captured yet and she always liked to pop out and strike when you least expect it...

[Kadere]

Except she was kidnapped at the time, and Asmodean would recognize more people then just the Forsaken

[Incubate]

was she kidnapped?

 

i could have sworn that she wasn't kidnapped until AFTER Asmodean died....hmmmm...

 

 

that's sad, becuase i just read that part too...again

[Incubate]

yeah, your right, my B...

 

 

Mogy was captured and then like 5 pages later Asmodean is killed....

 

 

easily mixed up :oops:

[Dashiva]

Did anyone else find it odd that after the fight Nyneave healed Rand from fish bites and bruises, even though he just balefires Rahvin and removes most of his wounds. I was always wondering if there was another forsaken hiding around that contributed to the fight, then hid again.

[Jarred Darque]

That is something I never even though of Das, he obvioulsy did some MAJOR balefireing there. I mean to before hte fight started, if he brought back Mat and the others killed when the wall came down on them. Unless this was an oversight on RJ's part, which I havent seen any others? You make a very valid observation,

[MasterofBlades]

Jarrad Darque:

 

I'm still not 100% sure, I think Moridin is by far the best suspect in Asmodean's death. I just reread a few passages from th following:

 

The Fires of Heaven: Chapter 56, Glowing Embers, pages 961 in softcover.

 

Asmodea pulls open a small door to the pantry. He intends on finding some decent wine. Asmodea takes one steps, he stops, then the blood drains from his face. "You? No!" The word still hung in the air when death took him.

 

The Path of Daggers: Prologue - Deceptive Appearances, page 33 - 35 in softcover.

 

On page 33, Moridin refers to himself as "Death." Now, take a look back at asmodeans last POV in TFOH

 

"You? No!" The word still hung in the air when "death" took him.

 

Now, "death" took asmodean, but it is not capitalized. But I still think thats a connection with Moridin/Ishamael naming himself "Death", with a capital D

 

On page 35, Moridn ponders using the True Power to crush a figurine (in some kind of game similar to Chess, from the Age of Legends) called The Fisher into power, and from powder, into nonexistense. The fact that Asmodean's words "You? NO!" hung in the air shows that he died within vert quickly (like with 3 seconds). I believe that Asmodean was burned out of existence, just like Moridin pondered crushing the Fisher.

 

The Path of Daggers: Chapter 12, New Alliances

 

This is a Graendal POV chapter. See page 293, in softcover. Graendal says to Moghedien, about Moridin, the following:

 

Graendal - "Since you lead, child, tell me, when this man who calls himslef Death is in his skin, who is he?"

 

Moghedien - "Moridin is Nae'blis. The Great Lord has said it is time for you to serve the Nae'blis too."

 

One final clue I've noticed. That the True Power cannot be detected by those who know the One Power, either Saidar or Saidin. Not even Rand Al'Thor can detect the True Power. Thats why Asmodeans body was never found when he died, and why none of the Aes Sedia or Ashaman or any other channelers noticed his death as it happened.

[Barnabas]

just a quick question, how would asmodean recognise moridin?

[Dashiva]

MasterofBlades:

 

"On page 35, Moridn ponders using the True Power to crush a figurine (in some kind of game similar to Chess, from the Age of Legends) called The Fisher into power, and from powder, into nonexistense. The fact that Asmodean's words "You? NO!" hung in the air shows that he died within vert quickly (like with 3 seconds). I believe that Asmodean was burned out of existence, just like Moridin pondered crushing the Fisher."

 

The Fisher is a representation of the Dragon(Rand Al'Thor).

 

PoD pg.35 "The Fisher was always worked as a man, a bandage blinding his eyes and one hand pressed to his side, a few drops of blood dripping through his fingers.The reasons, like the source of the name, were lost in the midst of time."

 

These sound like wounds that Rand has,not Asmodean. And the Dragons name being lost in time sounds more important than a forsaken.

 

Also like Barnabas said, how would Asmodean recognize Moridin?

[sombrastewart]

The whole "and death took him" bit was refuted by RJ. I think the words were "Oh God no."

[Slothman]

A quote from RJ taken from the WOT FAQ

 

"we should definitely be able to figure it out by the end of [TPOD]."

 

So that rules out people we haven't seen yet,

 

My personal guess is Lanfear, I think that out of spite, one of the wishes she made was to take the life of Asmodean (hence why he'd be so surprised to see her, thinking her dead). To continue this train of thought, one of her other wishes could be to be reborn in a new body to be free of her captors (thus causing everyone to doubt its her, the change in her power being due to the new body given to her) Who knows what her 3rd wish was, but considering her spite it could have been something allong the lines of wishing for moiraine to remain a captive in finnland (death would be too quick).

 

Went off on a bit of a tangent there, but yea, I think it's lanfear, theres nothing that says she died going into the gateway, only that she has since been reborn. If she and moiraine had been stilled because of their channeling as they passed through the gate, they could have easily been taken before the old ones to make their wishes, without putting up much of a struggle.

[Guest Majsju]

Lanfear was not reborn in a new body. Her soul was transmigrated into an already adult body. Had she been reborn, she'd be an infant. And according to RJ the finns don't have the power to transmigrate souls.

[Slothman]

lol ok bad choice of words using reborn rather than a soul transfer, but it still has to be something odd that happened in finnland as osan'gar and aran'gar were the same power as in their previous lives in their new bodies... maybe the the finns just moved the personality of lanfear into the new body thus meaning that the soul which is what is involved with the potential with the power from what i can grasp would still be in her original form... if thats right though, could we find another "real" lanfear inside finnland when mat, thom et.al. go to get moiraine?

[Dashiva]

In WH, Cyndane mentions being held by the Aelfinn and the Eelfinns. It would be very hard for her to be Asmodeans killer. It seems dying, getting a new body, and being in the exact spot to kill Asmodean where no one would no.

[teehee]

it couldn't have been moridin because asmodean doesn't know him.

i thought lanfear's soul was tranfered by the DO.

What if it was a Gholam?

[Slothman]

In WH' date=' Cyndane mentions being held by the Aelfinn and the Eelfinns. It would be very hard for her to be Asmodeans killer. It seems dying, getting a new body, and being in the exact spot to kill Asmodean where no one would no.[/quote']

 

true she couldnt do it as cyndane (at least not easily) but wha if one of her 3 wishes was to kill asmodean, the finns could place her behind the door just as he opens it, she Balefires him, and then they snap her back to their world where she is still captive...

 

its amazing what you can do with 3 wishes :P

[CowardsLiveLonger]

I thought they just got three questions answered....... :? I dont recall wishes.........

[Jonn]

I thought they just got three questions answered....... :? I dont recall wishes.........

 

Have you read The Shadow Rising?

[CowardsLiveLonger]

yes............ but it was a long time ago........ I just did it again :( Im a fool arent I!!!!

[Slothman]

the ones in tear answered questions, the ones in rhuidean (sp) granted wishes... at least thats if my memory holds

[Barnabas]

i personally dont buy the theory that lanfear killed asmodean, but thats not the point. if it was a lanfear wish, well we all know what happens when u dont specify a price, look at mat, so that could explain why the DO had to transfer her to cyndane, especially as she thinks to herself about what the finns did to her