Hollywood 1940's Mafia! Game Over!

Naeann · June 1, 2009

Mn... its almost 100 percent likely that the mafia is who took out Talya simply because the other target was linked to a mafia. They would never knowingly take out a mafia's link. That means when one dies the other dies. Granted sometimes the lovers have to find each other... but like Dpr said... you'd be WIFOM'ing all day about that.

I agree that her quickness to vote for him for a theory that is more than likely true is a bit suspicious.

mnwhiterose · June 1, 2009

So, MN, what is your game history?

This is my 3rd game, quite honestly.

I agree that her quickness to vote for him for a theory that is more than likely true is a bit suspicious.

As for my quickness to pose a vote - I'm not one to stay in the shadows and lurk while in game mode. Last round I voted No Lynch to see who would pop up on my radar and to get more information as to possible mafia members.

mnwhiterose - just when I'm still thinking Wes is hiding something, you make me think I've got things backwards.

Verbal: I'd go with your first instinct. Usually proves to be the right answer. When we second guess ourselves, that's when we make mistakes.

DPR · June 1, 2009

Alright, for a third game, I can see what you were doing.

Which leads me to my next observation (They are my opinions, but they are generally accepted. Feel free to disagree as always): In games with newer players, it is a common mistake to let the mafia talk you into revealing your roles. There are a million ways to do it, and it generally results in the innocents losing. So no role reveals, please, (unless you are about to be lynched).

*** My radar is up a bit because false reveals were discussed on day 1 by players that could turn around and claim that they are not that experienced. I didn't really see a reason for those discussions then. Take that how you will...

It's also common to let the innocents tear each other to pieces over the first few days and lynch themselves. So why don't we make a point to insist on lurkers posting. I'm very interested to see what a few of them have to say. heh

mnwhiterose · June 1, 2009

Which leads me to my next observation (They are my opinions, but they are generally accepted. Feel free to disagree as always)

See, this is what pings my radar about you, Wes. When your opinions are generally accepted and you are mafia, that usually doesn't bode well for the innocents. People will tend to agree with you because everyone likes you. As for disagreeing with you, this is my first game playing against you, so I really can't agree or disagree as to your opinions.

And thanks for the tips. :)

Just a quick question, though. Why does it seem you are the timekeeper? You seem to be on track with how much longer we have to vote? Do you always do this?

Verbal32 · June 1, 2009

Ok, I'm going to make a choice here.

[glow=red,2,300]Wes[/glow]

This is based on something that mnwhiterose said. I'm comfortable with my vote, as my first impression was that Wes was very suspicious.

And before anybody asks, no - I'm not revealing what has helped me make this choice. :P

DPR · June 1, 2009

Okay.

So, that's 2 votes for me. You need 4 more to lynch me.

MN asks:

Why does it seem you are the timekeeper? You seem to be on track with how much longer we have to vote? Do you always do this?

I said a lot about the time on day 1 because we were a little slow getting started and I wanted to remind people to play. These games are flat out boring if everybody lurks. I've not said much about the time since, so tell me what you mena? What I will do (unless you lynch me, of course) is post a lot of vote counts, quotes, and other stuff useful to everybody in making decisions. You can chose to read it, or not. I've also modded a bunch a games, so any reference IO make to that end just comes form that perspective.

As far as Verb's vote for me goes - I don't think I've seen this reason before:

And before anybody asks, no - I'm not revealing what has helped me make this choice. :P

Dude, if Kivam, Sirayn, Alys, Loki, or any of the first gen DM mafia greats saw this, you would have already been lynched. What are you trying to do? ??? I'm curious to see Nae's reaction.

Blig Blog · June 1, 2009

I'll post something relevant at some point...sorry but I've got to get home and help my dad who's real sick, he's home alone right now because my mom had to go get his meds. I'm on the public library and the comp at home isn't loading anything, something's wrong with the internet. I've got to get home soon and 5 minutes isn't long enough to post something good! I was told I'd have 15 minutes but that's how long it took me to read and fully understand the last posts! >:(

And trust me, I'm not lurking and putting this in for filler. I'll re-read when I can and post my thoughts.

DPR · June 1, 2009

No worries, Blig - eveybody has rl stuff happen.

Want to know something that does bug me? MN has been logged in every time I've checked over the last three hours. So why not post?

I'm starting to put together a picture here (and this is just my opinion, so that we're straight.)

I post a lot. Everybody knows this. I post a lot when I'm evil, I post a lot when I'm innocent (and I won't bore with dramatic arguments that I'm innocent...meh).

But I think it is fair to say that I've been straight forward with the stuff I've posted. It's pretty simple stuff, and nothing that the advanced palyers don't know about.

So why would somebody not want me to post it? Or vote for me and openly refuse to give the reason why? Seems like it would be awfully nice to have me out of the way, no?

I detect the distinct smell of...mafia. And I've got five bucks that says it's about to blow across town.

On the up-side, I am curious to see what they've cooked up for me. ;) You knew it was going to be something. heh

*cracks knuckles and gets ready to play mafia*

mnwhiterose · June 1, 2009

So, because I stay logged in while I'm at work and don't post because I'm at work, that makes me mafia?

Am I missing something in the rules that states I have to post every time I'm online? Or is this some sort of newbie hazing? :o

Verbal32 · June 1, 2009

As far as Verb's vote for me goes - I don't think I've seen this reason before:

And before anybody asks, no - I'm not revealing what has helped me make this choice. :P

Dude, if Kivam, Sirayn, Alys, Loki, or any of the first gen DM mafia greats saw this, you would have already been lynched. What are you trying to do? ??? I'm curious to see Nae's reaction.

I debated with myself on whether I wanted to say that in my post - it took me 20 minutes to write that, lol. No, I wouldn't have "already been lynched". They would have done the same thing you did.

I'm looking for a reaction to that statement, but not from you, Wes. I knew what your reaction would be.

CUBAREY · June 1, 2009

I debated with myself on whether I wanted to say that in my post - it took me 20 minutes to write that, lol. No, I wouldn't have "already been lynched". They would have done the same thing you did.

Somewhat confusing. I could see you not want to disclose you're the finder but why then insist that it was your first gut feeling or that what convinced you was something that Mn said? Possible Miller's ? or are you mafia and just trying to confuse the issue?

By the way I said there was probably a Serial Killer because a vigilante would fave tended to go after someone that had some suspicion already thrown at her in order to maximize his.her chances of killing a mafia and I don't believe that Serene was in anyones periscope. Thus I assumed it was a serial killer, of course it could have been an inexperienced vigilante but I doubt that even someone who has played only three games would have made that mistake.

Dark Justice · June 1, 2009

I have to say, that when I saw mnwhiterose vote, and going out that afressive beginning of day two, it struck my "scum radar". My scum radar is usually good..

[glow=red,2,300]mnwhiterose[/glow]

Dark Justice · June 1, 2009

oh.. a bit more to add...

what especially struck my radar, was her vote being on WES for analyzing the nights happenings, and pretty much being "spot on" as far as I can see it..

Like Naeann said: why would the mafia strike one of the lovers, when the other was scum?

Liathiana · June 1, 2009

At this point I am finding mn and verby's actions very suspicious. If Verbal is the Finder and if he viewed DPR last night, why would he even ponder voting for him if he is mafia? I don't get it. He waited instead until mn said something about "going with your first instinct" which makes me think he isn't the Finder.

Your logic concerning the Serial Killer does make sense Cuba but if it could also be a newbie Vigilante, I don't think we have enough evidence to say either which way yet.

mnwhiterose · June 2, 2009

Mn... its almost 100 percent likely that the mafia is who took out Talya simply because the other target was linked to a mafia. They would never knowingly take out a mafia's link. That means when one dies the other dies. Granted sometimes the lovers have to find each other... but like Dpr said... you'd be WIFOM'ing all day about that.

I agree that her quickness to vote for him for a theory that is more than likely true is a bit suspicious.

Knowingly - I bolded this word because it seemed important. So, what if they didn't know they were lovers? What if they "had to find each other"? Or maybe the mafia figured it was a calculated risk in order to throw off the game play of the rest of us by killing off one of their own.

Yes, a WIFOM scenario.

As for my quickness to vote for Wes, he pinged my radar and I went with my gut.

Naeann · June 2, 2009

Dpr.. you'd be correct in assuming Verbal saying that would ping my radar. Verby is hiding something or he'd explain why he thinks you are guilty.

Verby dear, you aren't going to convince many to vote for him if your only reasoning is gut instinct and "im not telling you why".

DPR · June 2, 2009

Mn... its almost 100 percent likely that the mafia is who took out Talya simply because the other target was linked to a mafia. They would never knowingly take out a mafia's link. That means when one dies the other dies. Granted sometimes the lovers have to find each other... but like Dpr said... you'd be WIFOM'ing all day about that.

I agree that her quickness to vote for him for a theory that is more than likely true is a bit suspicious.

Knowingly - I bolded this word because it seemed important. So, what if they didn't know they were lovers? What if they "had to find each other"? Or maybe the mafia figured it was a calculated risk in order to throw off the game play of the rest of us by killing off one of their own.

Yes, a WIFOM scenario.

As for my quickness to vote for Wes, he pinged my radar and I went with my gut.

Honestly, you would have been better off playing this off as a rookie mistake-now you just look guilty. And I'm not trying to be all "I know everything about mafia", but you can't defend the undefendable. The chances of of the "lovers" being "long lost" is remote. It's usually a scenario where the pair has something to gain by finding each other, such as a union or a miller connection. When it's mafia and innocents, they usually know so that they can preserve each other.

The only way your scenario works is if you were part of the mafia, and decided to pull off a "hey, let's kill one of own to throw everybody off" scenario - which would have been a complete waste, since neither Jeran or Sarayne was even on the radar. So I don't feel like that's what happened either. But I am very curious as to why you cling to this situation.

Bleh - I could go on and on, but I'd reather heat what everyone else has to say.

CUBAREY · June 2, 2009

At this point I suspect both Mnwhiterose and Verbal but am not quite ready to choose bwtween them. I would like to hear from those who have not posted recently before making up my mind.

Leelou · June 2, 2009

Vote count

Wes: 2 Mn, verbal

MN: 1 DJ

You have about 36 hours left in day. 6 votes for a majority.

If I could just ask you to glow and place your vote at the bottom of your post so I can get them counted correctly.

Verbal32 · June 2, 2009

At this point I am finding mn and verby's actions very suspicious. If Verbal is the Finder and if he viewed DPR last night, why would he even ponder voting for him if he is mafia? I don't get it. He waited instead until mn said something about "going with your first instinct" which makes me think he isn't the Finder.

Very logical deduction, Liath. ;)

Ok, I can see we aren't getting anywhere without me being more clear. I have strong suspicions about Wes, and because of that was worried he had come to a similar conclusion as me. And if another wily player was mafia, I was worried they too would see what I saw. If I am wrong on this, my apologies. I feel like I'm making a big mistake on this, but.....

See, this is what pings my radar about you, Wes. When your opinions are generally accepted and you are mafia, that usually doesn't bode well for the innocents. People will tend to agree with you because everyone likes you. As for disagreeing with you, this is my first game playing against you, so I really can't agree or disagree as to your opinions.

Bolded for emphasis. I read this to mean something, and was then worried that the mafia had as well. I didn't want to post anything, on the off-chance that the mafia missed it, but I don't want the game to stall out and have a random lynch come around with this few players left. On Day 1 I would have been ok with it, but not now.

I was under the impression that bolded phrase was telling us something. I was either going to vote for Wes or for mnwhiterose, but seeing that I had more suspicions for Wes, I voted accordingly. That is the type of subtle hint that I would have used, so I acted.

Does this make sense?

DPR · June 2, 2009

I'm not exactly clear on what you are driving at, but I think is basically boils down to you building a case against me based on a reputation and not based on game facts. You've been stuck on me from day one when there wasn't even any evidence to go on.

So I have to aske myself, why would someone do that? There are two obvious answers: You are either mafia and want to eliminate threats against you right away (which also includes the Talya nightkill) or, you are actually innocent, but metagaming so badly that it's actually helping the mafia by distracting everyone's attention away from them.

Obviously, if you have a case against me, you should go after me. I'll refuse it, we will both post a lot, and everyone can decide what they think. That's how the game is played.

But if you point the FOS at me, then agree with me, then disagree with me and put the FOS back on me, all without actually presenting a case, then you are just wasting everyone's time.

And through it all, I keep saying "watch the lurkers", because we positively know that the mafia benefits from lurking. Not bothering to post on day 2 yet: Peacesells (Took over for Nyn and brought up false reveals by the second or third post. Wonder what's on his mind?). Hybrid. MCS. I'll bet you a nickle that at least one of them is mafia.

And, you know it's true. But you won't look into that, will you?

Anyway, you can keep trying to convince people to lynch me based on "your first gut insitinct", but even you know that if I am mafia, I'm not the only one. If you were positive I was mafia, you would be relaxed and let me talk a lot, encouraging me to say more and let me build a case against myself while I pointed to my teamates. But you are not doing this. The question is, why?

CUBAREY · June 2, 2009

Does this make sense?

Are you implying that DPR and MN were mafia teammates in the past? Then how do you tell which of them is mafia in this game and which is innocent? And/or are you impying that MN is the Finder?

I think you are being too clever by half. It smells of scum.

[glow=red,2,300]VOTE Verbal[/glow]

Naeann · June 2, 2009

He is saying she's either the finder and has found Dpr to be scum and was trying to subtly say so... or that she's mafia and therefore knows they are not on the same team and she slipped. Given I'm already suspicious of her I'm going with a slip up. No offence at all towards her... even the greats like Dpr and Kivam sill slip up sometimes.

[glow=red,2,300]MN[/glow]

Verbal32 · June 2, 2009

Are you implying that DPR and MN were mafia teammates in the past? Then how do you tell which of them is mafia in this game and which is innocent?

No, I am not implying they were mafia teammates in the past. As for the next question, that's my problem. ;)

He is saying she's either the finder and has found Dpr to be scum and was trying to subtly say so... or that she's mafia and therefore knows they are not on the same team and she slipped. Given I'm already suspicious of her I'm going with a slip up. No offence at all towards her... even the greats like Dpr and Kivam sill slip up sometimes.

[glow=red,2,300]MN[/glow]

Exactly.

Not bothering to post on day 2 yet: Peacesells (Took over for Nyn and brought up false reveals by the second or third post. Wonder what's on his mind?). Hybrid. MCS. I'll bet you a nickle that at least one of them is mafia.

And, you know it's true. But you won't look into that, will you?

Anyway, you can keep trying to convince people to lynch me based on "your first gut insitinct", but even you know that if I am mafia, I'm not the only one. If you were positive I was mafia, you would be relaxed and let me talk a lot, encouraging me to say more and let me build a case against myself while I pointed to my teamates. But you are not doing this. The question is, why?

First bold: I won't take that bet, because you are probably correct. If they would bother to post, I'd gladly try to "look into that". Am I supposed to use a crystal ball or something? How do I look into that when they don't post? :-\

Second bold: Why? Because I'm not positive you are mafia. If I was, I would say so....or at least strongly hint it. I'm not positive, and based on prior suspicion, I chose you over mnwhiterose for my vote. I thought I said that with my previous post? Which leads me to.....

I'm not exactly clear on what you are driving at, but I think is basically boils down to you building a case against me based on a reputation and not based on game facts.

Not clear? Nae is clear. I'm surprised you aren't. Feigned ignorance, perhaps?

DPR · June 2, 2009

Feigned ignorance, my big butt. I'm being very clear about everything that I say - you have yet to be clear about anything!

Now you engage in the subtle arts of letting Nae's post make your point for you? That's scummish in the extreme...

MY RESPONSES ARE IN BLUE: AND I REALIZED AFTER THAT ALL OF THE BOLDING IS VERY ANNOYING, BUT I DON'T HAVE TIME TO CHANGE IT. SORRY...

Are you implying that DPR and MN were mafia teammates in the past? Then how do you tell which of them is mafia in this game and which is innocent?

No, I am not implying they were mafia teammates in the past. As for the next question, that's my problem. ;)

THIS IS TOTAL BUNK. YOU MAY AS WELL HAVE NOT POSTED BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT SAYING ANYTHING HERE. AT LEAST WE BOTH AGREE THAT YOU HAVE A PROBLEM. :P

He is saying she's either the finder and has found Dpr to be scum and was trying to subtly say so... or that she's mafia and therefore knows they are not on the same team and she slipped. Given I'm already suspicious of her I'm going with a slip up. No offence at all towards her... even the greats like Dpr and Kivam sill slip up sometimes.

[glow=red,2,300]MN[/glow]

Exactly.

EXACTLY WHAT? PEOPLE SHOULD BELIEVE WHATEVER IT IS THAT THEY THINK THAT THEY READ OUT OF THIS? YOU KNOW WHAT I THINK? I THINK THAT THE MAFIA PLANNED A FALSE FINDER REVEAL, BUT THEN GOT COLD FEET BECAUSE YOU REALISED YOU WERE GOING TO GET BUSTED. IF A FINDER DID CHECK ME LAST NIGHT (AND I'TS A GREAT CHANCE THAT THEY DID - IT'S A BIG REASON I'M VOCAL ON DAY 1 - I WANT TO BE CHECKED!) THEY FOUND ME INNOCENT. WE KNOW THIS BECAUSE THE ONE AND ONLY TIME THAT EVERYONE AGREES THAT A FINDER SHOULD REVEAL IS IF THEY FIND A MAFIA. MIRACULOUSLY, NO ONE CLAIMED ANYTHING OF THE SORT.

BUT IT WOULD BE NICE IF YOU COULD COAX OUT THE FINDER TO SAY THAT I WAS INNOCENT, WOULD'NT IT? TAHT'S WHY I ALREADY SAID FOR NO ONE TO REVEAL THEIR ROLE - NO MATTER WHAT! AND I STAND BY THAT. BETTER I BE LYNCHED THAN A FINDER REVEAL THEMSELVES.

Not bothering to post on day 2 yet: Peacesells (Took over for Nyn and brought up false reveals by the second or third post. Wonder what's on his mind?). Hybrid. MCS. I'll bet you a nickle that at least one of them is mafia.

And, you know it's true. But you won't look into that, will you?

Anyway, you can keep trying to convince people to lynch me based on "your first gut insitinct", but even you know that if I am mafia, I'm not the only one. If you were positive I was mafia, you would be relaxed and let me talk a lot, encouraging me to say more and let me build a case against myself while I pointed to my teamates. But you are not doing this. The question is, why?

First bold: I won't take that bet, because you are probably correct. If they would bother to post, I'd gladly try to "look into that". Am I supposed to use a crystal ball or something? How do I look into that when they don't post? :-\

OH, NOW ALL OF THE SUDDEN YOU DOM'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY? LET ME REMIND YOU: YOU POINT OUT THAT THEY ARE LURKING AND DEMAND FOR THEM TO POST. LIKE I HAVE...

Second bold: Why? Because I'm not positive you are mafia. If I was, I would say so....or at least strongly hint it. I'm not positive, and based on prior suspicion, I chose you over mnwhiterose for my vote. I thought I said that with my previous post? Which leads me to.....

I'm not exactly clear on what you are driving at, but I think is basically boils down to you building a case against me based on a reputation and not based on game facts.

Not clear? Nae is clear. I'm surprised you aren't. Feigned ignorance, perhaps?

IS NAE CLEAR? DID SHE SAY THAT? YOU KNOW, A GREAT WAY TO FIND OUT IS TO ASK NAE INSTEAD OF PUTTING WORDS IN HER MOUTH.

So, I was going to wait to vote, but what the heck. You and MN have given us all kinds of reasons to vote for you and my only other suspicions are on the lurkers right now. We can get to them next.

Becuase she is as "mysterious" as you, but she's closer to a majority lynch.

[glow=red,2,300]MN[/glow]

Hollywood 1940's Mafia! Game Over!

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