DO a moron?

[Muad Cheade]

Hmm ...

 

That whole section has always been problematic to me.  I personally think that what we were seeing is some sort of use of the True Power which enables Ishamael to link the various Darkfriends directly with the Dark One (which is why he called them to Shayol Ghul, rather than delivering their instructions to them where they were).

 

If Ishy knew all the things implied by those fragmentary flashes, and still did (and didn't do) what he did (and didn't do) then he would be much stupider than I think he is.  On the other hand, the Dark One has access to knowledge (and gaps in his knowledge) that don't follow human patterns.  So much of what Carridin saw (what might have been Lanfear escaping the Bore, the sky raining fire, the moon and stars falling, the dead walking, and the total loss of his own sense of identity) is completely unrelated to anything Carridin would see or be ordered to do.  The method of delivery seems to match the pain and ecstasy of direct connection with the Dark One.  It almost seems as if the Dark One shoved his own perception of a chunk of the Pattern into Carridin's head, to serve as a contingency override, like we saw activated in ACoS ch 15 when Carridin saw Mat in Ebou Dar.

 

It seems to me (and the choice of title, "A Memory of Light" and the working title for book 13 "Shifting Winds" seem to add weight) that things are about to start seriously hitting the fan (making murdering the entire Seanchan upper nobility except Tuon look like a joke), the Light was obviously very powerful and dangerous yet the strike at Shayol Ghul was truly a desperate measure, not a single female Aes Sedai willing to take the risk. Ishy was 'in charge' of the DO's strategy and his defection seems to have been a key part of the beginning of the war, but the key was that he was no major strategist, no tactician or general yet somehow he managed to be, if not as popular as LTT (since Demandred was usually second), as powerful. Where talking about someone who was a master of the game sha'rah, a game that makes stones, a game that great generals and masters of the Great Game are the best at, seem simple. He was in charge of the DO's forces even though he never actually commanded, he is the 'heart of the dark', the 'soul of the shadow, and he seems to not want to just win, he wants to win in such a way that none could ever challenge his victory, prove himself unbeatable it seems to me. I've always figured that when Tarmon Gai'din comes around will be the earliest we'll understand Ishamael's motives.

 

Yeah. I think in terms of warfare Ishamael was more of the Shadow's overall military strategist than a general, like Demandred and Sammael.

 

As of right now, the Shadow has a lot of its pawns in positions of power and I think in aMoL, that will come into play. I don't remember if it was Semihrage, but during the War of Power she was pretty much a double agent and continued to feed the Shdow information which caused untold amounts of damage. I can see that happening during Tarmon Gai'don.

[arkinia]

What makes people think we are supposed to know what has been going on in a 12 book series before the story is even over? Ever heard of a plot twist?

 

I'm saying he SEEMS stupid, I think he is, but that doesn't mean I truly believe that there isn't some massive plot twist on the way, there obviously is.

Is that doublethink?

[Builder]

What's an overall strategist now? Was he deciding what strategy to use for the Shadow? Because that's gay according to teh Art of War. It must be hard, but the best strategy is to have no strategy, to be fluid and shapeless.

[Durinax]

Builder your mistaken. The art of war says that you should have a plan until the battle begins. When the battle begins you must be able to adjust and change to circumstances

[zanotam]

Builder your mistaken. The art of war says that you should have a plan until the battle begins. When the battle begins you must be able to adjust and change to circumstances

 

The Art of War is hardly the only place for that, and the most common form of the saying is "No battle plan survives contact with the enemy" and it's pretty much a cornerstone of even the most basic (not stupid) military strategy.

[Durinax]

art of war is considered a main works on military strategy. Basic sense also states that you need compitent subordinents. But since we are not sure who is df's and who is not or their overall structure. I would say that the DO's plan is actually pretty smart. . . he lets the stupid subordinants die out leaving only the strong/

[zanotam]

art of war is considered a main works on military strategy. Basic sense also states that you need compitent subordinents. But since we are not sure who is df's and who is not or their overall structure. I would say that the DO's plan is actually pretty smart. . . he lets the stupid subordinants die out leaving only the strong/

 

The problem is that he has many hidden subordinates this time, but not many people are openly defecting and his forces currently are seemingly unorganized. Obviously things are about to change, I mean, Seanchan just got decimated and Shara is in civil war, and Rand does have decent sized and powerful forces, but we're already seeing them split and splinter and when the DFs start coming out in force everything is going to hit the fan.

[Durinax]

which is a pretty genious plan. How well will a army work if a soldier cant trust the guy next to him? moral is the deciding factor in all battles

[Mr Ares]

I'm saying he SEEMS stupid, I think he is.

Why?

[Titan Orion]

Nobody can mock the Dark Ones plan. It spans across an entire species. You try and manage a plan that big and see how stupid you look!

 

Shaitan forever...

[Builder]

Yeah but he had like a shitstorm of years to think about everything.

[Durinax]

lol he has had eternity to think and plan, but Shaitan doesnt do the planning, he just sits back and gives power to his higher up people, allowing them to plan. Ishi is the true mastermind, the DO is just the temptor

[Neemo]

typical...the forsaken go about killing and maiming and burning and pillaging and the DO gets all the credit

[Raistlin]

Honestly we know so little of what he really intends. We have only seen the stupid forsaken doing as they please. I think as the time grows near we will see more of the forsaken fall in to line and his real intentions come to light. Still think Ishy is the only one with a clue as to what will happen.

[zanotam]

typical...the forsaken go about killing and maiming and burning and pillaging and the DO gets all the credit

 

Exactly. Plus, we always have a tendency to think in terms of light and shadow as the two sides, but if we know how split the light is (aes sedai, seanchan, aiel, white cloaks, borderlands, tear, etc.) and the shadow is filled with people who love stabbing in the back and scheming.....well.....I doubt they're that united either (especially in the case of Ishamael, who is busy directing about every plot he can get his hands on, light, dark, shadow, fluffy bunnies, whatever)

[Durinax]

Exactly. Plus, we always have a tendency to think in terms of light and shadow as the two sides, but if we know how split the light is (aes sedai, seanchan, aiel, white cloaks, borderlands, tear, etc.) and the shadow is filled with people who love stabbing in the back and scheming.....well.....I doubt they're that united either (especially in the case of Ishamael, who is busy directing about every plot he can get his hands on, light, dark, shadow, fluffy bunnies, whatever)

 

All I have to say is that Ishamael is more skilled than people give him credit for. After all he destroyed Hawkwing, started the discrimination against Aes Sedai, (personnally I believe he corrupted the children of the light), sent some of hawkwings armies across the ocean. Plus we dont know whether this is his own doing or with the DO's instructions.

[zanotam]

Exactly. Plus, we always have a tendency to think in terms of light and shadow as the two sides, but if we know how split the light is (aes sedai, seanchan, aiel, white cloaks, borderlands, tear, etc.) and the shadow is filled with people who love stabbing in the back and scheming.....well.....I doubt they're that united either (especially in the case of Ishamael, who is busy directing about every plot he can get his hands on, light, dark, shadow, fluffy bunnies, whatever)

 

All I have to say is that Ishamael is more skilled than people give him credit for. After all he destroyed Hawkwing, started the discrimination against Aes Sedai, (personnally I believe he corrupted the children of the light), sent some of hawkwings armies across the ocean. Plus we dont know whether this is his own doing or with the DO's instructions.

 

Totally. Actually, suddenly he didn't seem so pathetic when I thought through TGH prologue, where flashes of various future scenes are shown, basically proving that he expected to get 'killed' by Rand most likely. Plus, one of the first Moridin scenes has him admitting to playing both sides.

[thatsnotgood]

 

 

Exactly. Plus, we always have a tendency to think in terms of light and shadow as the two sides, but if we know how split the light is (aes sedai, seanchan, aiel, white cloaks, borderlands, tear, etc.) and the shadow is filled with people who love stabbing in the back and scheming.....well.....I doubt they're that united either (especially in the case of Ishamael, who is busy directing about every plot he can get his hands on, light, dark, shadow, fluffy bunnies, whatever)

 

never EVER underestimate the fluffy bunnies. Haven't you even seen mighty python and the holy grail? "TIM: Look, that rabbit's got a vicious streak a mile wide, it's a killer! . . .  He's got huge, sharp-- he can leap about-- look at the bones! "

[Titan Orion]

typical...the forsaken go about killing and maiming and burning and pillaging and the DO gets all the credit

 

No, they get the blame for the Dark Ones plans failing. If they worked together everything would be different.