Before the particulars of Skimming were nailed down

[El Dude]

Don't know if this has ever been mentioned before, but it seems like there is an inconsistency regarding skimming in earlier books.  How did Rand get on the exact same skimming pathway as Asmodean at the end of SR.  I thought that for someone to do that it would have to be made on exactly the same spot going to exactly the same spot, and I assume that Asmo didnt skim there for Rand's perch in the Golden Bowl, but could have missed some information.

[The Doctor]

If memory serves correctly, Rand instictively reopened Asmos gateway.

[water_seeker]

I always thought skimming took them to the same "place" while they were skimming...so that even if they came out in different places they could still cross paths in that other "place." IDK tho...and I'm sure I'm wrong.

[zanotam]

Well, one of the things that seems to be important is that Rand is of course, Ta'veren, and that a lot of times he'll do something that seems impossible or should never work (I'm almost positive the skimming thing was mentioned as being impossible), just through sheer luck. He channels and somehow manages to do it.

[Ashaman Kovan]

Yeah, I think it was just a goof on RJ's part before he fully thought out how Traveling was going to work. Rand didn't hold Amsos Gateway open or anything like that. He made his own. Later we read that for that to happen the weaves used to make the gateway would have to be exactly the same in every way. I'm pretty sure at least. I thought it also said, and I think it was Egwene who thought it, when she was taking Lan to Ebou Dar, that it would be impossible for any Forsaken or BA to find them. Even if they opened a Gateway in exactly the same spot intending to Skim to exactly the same place. Don't quote me though, I could be wrong.

[Eleint]

Remember how Rand talks about Residues and so on, half without knowing what he's talking about at first, and able to read the residues of the Power.

 

He's a residue reader.  Aviendha unwove the portal in Crown of Swords because if any of the damane were residue readers, they could follow or such.

 

There's really no conflict here.

[Ashaman Kovan]

No conflict except for the fact that Rand opened his own gateway. He didn't read the residues of Asmodeans at all.

 

From chapter 57: A Breaking In the Three-Fold Land.

 

"With the Power he folded reality, bent a small patch of what was. A door opened beneath the dome in front of him. That was the only way to describe it. An opening into darkness, into somewhere else."

 

Nothing whatsoever about him seeing residues. Because he didn't. So yes, this scenario is inconsistent with what we learn about Traveling and Skimming in later books.

 

[Cybertrolloc]

Agree with Kovan. There's little chance Asmo left from anywhere visible to Rand at the time.

[zanotam]

So, all that means is that there is about a 1 in a Somethingillion chance that Rand would make the weave exactly the same with all other characteristics needed properly fulfilled. If we're willing to buy reading a series of books in which the main characters literally are walking plot devices, that shouldn't be too hard to believe.

[Ashaman Kovan]

Except from what we get later not only would the weave have to have been exactly the same, he would have had to make his gateway on the same exact spot as Asmodeans. Which he didn't. Considering he was nowhere near Asmodean when he made his gateway. At least not near enough that he felt him channel. Which means it wasn't on the same exact spot. He would have had to "Bend" or "Bore" his hole in the same exact part of the pattern as Asmodean which means opening it in precisely the same spot. From what i've gathered.

[zanotam]

From what we know at least. The only thing is that we've seen Nynaeve heal stilling/gentling/severing, Rand has actually severed the ties of someone to the DO, Aviendha figure out what an angreal does, Elayne has MADE angreal, Egwene has created heart stone, and then we've had Moridin, Isam/Luc, Fain, and a bunch of other crazies wandering out doing insane things. If there is one thing we should know, it's that AoL AS were if anything, DUMBER than modern AS/AM since they took so much on faith and well, they also bored a hole into the DO's prison.

[Ashaman Kovan]

From what we know at least. The only thing is that we've seen Nynaeve heal stilling/gentling/severing, Rand has actually severed the ties of someone to the DO, Aviendha figure out what an angreal does, Elayne has MADE angreal, Egwene has created heart stone, and then we've had Moridin, Isam/Luc, Fain, and a bunch of other crazies wandering out doing insane things. If there is one thing we should know, it's that AoL AS were if anything, DUMBER than modern AS/AM since they took so much on faith and well, they also bored a hole into the DO's prison.

 

Well in that case, since the information comes from Egwenes PoV (And possibly other sources) then we should accept it. :)

[thatsnotgood]

I always thought it had something to do with the difference of sadin and sader.  I caught that the first time through but it never really bothered me that much, what bothered me was why was Asmodian skimming in hte first place if he could travel?

[Ashaman Kovan]

I think it was something like he needed time to think or formulate some kind of plan as to exactly what he was going to do if and once he found the Choedan Kal.

[Eleint]

I caught that the first time through but it never really bothered me that much, what bothered me was why was Asmodian skimming in hte first place if he could travel?

 

You have to 'know' your destination really well for Traveling, and your current location really well for Skimming.

 

He didn't know Rhuidean well, so couldn't Travel there.  He could know where he was well after a while and Skim from there.

 

Or that was my logic.

[Mr Ares]

I caught that the first time through but it never really bothered me that much, what bothered me was why was Asmodian skimming in hte first place if he could travel?

You have to 'know' your destination really well for Traveling, and your current location really well for Skimming.

 

He didn't know Rhuidean well, so couldn't Travel there.  He could know where he was well after a while and Skim from there.

 

Or that was my logic.

Other way round - you need to know the destination for Skimming, the start point for Travelling. He did know Rhuidean - we see him investigating it in T'a'r. So he skimmed rather than waiting till he learnt the ground he started from.

[thatsnotgood]

Just out of curiosity, wasn't Asmodian living inside a wagon at the time? Couldn't he just open a gateway in there? I mean if the guy slept there every night you would think he would know it well enough to travel from?

[Mr Ares]

Just out of curiosity, wasn't Asmodian living inside a wagon at the time? Couldn't he just open a gateway in there? I mean if the guy slept there every night you would think he would know it well enough to travel from?

Well, the wagon does move, that might be important. As he would then be trying to Travel from a place he didn't know.

[Eleint]

Apparently, I need a re-read!

 

As for wagons, it is said for ships at least that you aren't able to Travel to or from them easily.  When Logain does it, he does it over the ship's hull from shore, more or less.  One might think wagons similar, or not.

[RobertAlexWillis]

As for wagons, it is said for ships at least that you aren't able to Travel to or from them easily.

 

It is hard to Travel from a ship under sail because it is moving, and like Mr Ares said, you have to know your starting point well for Traveling.  Traveling to a ship is not difficult, in the sense of making a gateway to the right place, but it can be difficult, because if the ship rides a swell into the bottom edge of a gateway, it will chop up the deck of the ship.  Which is why when ...

 

When Logain does it, he does it over the ship's hull from shore, more or less.

 

... he made the gateway a decent distance above the deck, so as not to damage the ship, which would have been bad form.

 

Just out of curiosity, wasn't Asmodian living inside a wagon at the time? Couldn't he just open a gateway in there? I mean if the guy slept there every night you would think he would know it well enough to travel from?

 

Being familiar with the interior of the wagon wouldn't help him form a Traveling gateway, since the wagon changes locations.  It isn't the decor you have to be familiar with, it is your location in space/time, aka the fabric of the Pattern.

 

As for the logic of why you need to know your starting point for Traveling, and your destination for Skimming ...

 

When you Travel, you bring your destination to you.  So, you have to know where you are.

 

When you Skim, you go to your destination, so you have to know where you're going.