It seems to me...

[a5m]

Anyhoo, back on topic. According to the blog, Robert Jordan said Cadsuane has one that is very much like it." This fits in with what I said about it disrupting "illusions." Also, I don't remember Setalle Anan talking about Cadsuane or her ter'angreal in KoD. In fact, I think the only thing she said was that she was an Aes Sedai and was found by Jasfer when she couldn't channel and was nearly dead.

 

And like RAW said, the gholam is "immune to just about anything else." Nothing except Mat's Medallion has been seen to even hurt it as seen in his examples. We don't know what happened to the other 5 gholam either. I highly doubt they were all destroyed. In fact I don't even know if they can be. If the Shadow has more than one of them at its arsenal....

 

Satalle Anan does mention Cadsuane in KoD. Chapter 7, right after she stopped Mat from spanking Joline. In fact, Joline even asked how did she know Cadsaune while the other two talked about how she said "How could you have passed the test for the shawl if you freeze at moments like this?"

 

It's one of my favorite scenes. Mistress Anan deftly side steps both comments and in Chapter 9 admits she was Aes Sedai to Mat and the sisters are too blind to see it. We also know that Nynaeve has one that unravel's webs. (See Cyndane POV and her attack on Alivia.) Satalle thinks that Cadsaune also has one. This might be different that the one Cadsaune uses to disrupt Semirhage's Illusion since that weave is a passive weave that is not aimed at Cadsaune.

 

About the gholam, it sort of like asking what will kill Superman. Maybe you can't kill the gholam directly with hand weapons but you could bury it under tons of debris without ever touching it with the power. Buried, it would eventually die of starvation. In fact, I'd wonder what "rolling fire and earth" that the Asha'men used would do to it. True that might take a linked circle or even one with men too. It will be interesting to see how the Gholam is done away with.

 

I was wrong about the number of trained Aes Sedai we have. The three currently with Mat are also trained as is Satalle Anan. (Joline, Teslyn and Edesina.) That brings the number to 6. (7 if Satalle gets healed.)

[Muad Cheade]

Anyhoo, back on topic. According to the blog, Robert Jordan said Cadsuane has one that is very much like it." This fits in with what I said about it disrupting "illusions." Also, I don't remember Setalle Anan talking about Cadsuane or her ter'angreal in KoD. In fact, I think the only thing she said was that she was an Aes Sedai and was found by Jasfer when she couldn't channel and was nearly dead.

 

And like RAW said, the gholam is "immune to just about anything else." Nothing except Mat's Medallion has been seen to even hurt it as seen in his examples. We don't know what happened to the other 5 gholam either. I highly doubt they were all destroyed. In fact I don't even know if they can be. If the Shadow has more than one of them at its arsenal....

 

Satalle Anan does mention Cadsuane in KoD. Chapter 7, right after she stopped Mat from spanking Joline. In fact, Joline even asked how did she know Cadsaune while the other two talked about how she said "How could you have passed the test for the shawl if you freeze at moments like this?"

 

It's one of my favorite scenes. Mistress Anan deftly side steps both comments and in Chapter 9 admits she was Aes Sedai to Mat and the sisters are too blind to see it. We also know that Nynaeve has one that unravel's webs. (See Cyndane POV and her attack on Alivia.) Satalle thinks that Cadsaune also has one. This might be different that the one Cadsaune uses to disrupt Semirhage's Illusion since that weave is a passive weave that is not aimed at Cadsaune.

 

About the gholam, it sort of like asking what will kill Superman. Maybe you can't kill the gholam directly with hand weapons but you could bury it under tons of debris without ever touching it with the power. Buried, it would eventually die of starvation. In fact, I'd wonder what "rolling fire and earth" that the Asha'men used would do to it. True that might take a linked circle or even one with men too. It will be interesting to see how the Gholam is done away with.

 

I was wrong about the number of trained Aes Sedai we have. The three currently with Mat are also trained as is Satalle Anan. (Joline, Teslyn and Edesina.) That brings the number to 6. (7 if Satalle gets healed.)

 

In the chapter, Setalle says that Cadsuane "supposedly had one or so rumor said." No actual proof that she has one that is the same as Mat's medallion, so I am still unconvinced.

 

I doubt beating the gholam would be that easy. First, he could simply fit through the gabs like he's able to do and done before. Secondly, I'm pretty sure if you try to collapse a building on him, he's more than fast enough to get out of the way.

 

There are no Aes Sedai "trained" to beat the gholam. The only fight we've seen between the gholam and channelers ended very badly for the channelers. In the Rahad, he almost killed Elayne herself. All she remembers is that the flows didn't affect him like it does mat. Nynaeve and Aviendha never saw the thing. I doubt the 6 channelers Mat has with him (Edesina, Joline, Teslyn, Bethamin, Seta, Setalle) would do anything except for die quite frankly . No one is trained to fight a gholam which is why they were so effective and feared in the war of the Shadow.

 

As to use your Superman analogy, yes Superman might be defeated a few times, he never really dies and always comes back because he has one weakness, kryptonite, and not that many people have access to it. The same goes for the only thing we know that is able to hurt the gholam is Mat's medallion and not that many people have access to it.

[Mr Ares]

Regardless, the term Dreadlord refers to a channeler who fight for the Shadow so they were still there in the War of the Shadow. No need to argue minute details.

 

I don't believe Cadsuane and Nynaeve's ter'angreal are immune to the Power like Mat's medallion. I believe they just have wells, ter'angreal that can detect men and women's channeling and angreal and sa'angreal but I'm not completely sure. In the Chapter "A Plain Wooden Box" from KoD, it wasn't their ter'angreal that disrupted Semirhage's illusion. Nynaeve knew one of them was channeling but had masked her ability to channel and inverted the weaves and Cadsuane said she could "do something when they got closer." To the best of our knowledge, Mat's medallion is the only one tht can dsisrupt flows of the One Power.

It wasn't an opinion, and it wasn't up for debate. Nynaeve's ter'angreal is used by Alivia at the Cleansing, and we see it dissolve Cyndane's weave. Cadsuane has one as well. You can disbelieve if you want, but it is fact. To the best of our knowledge, Mat's is not the only one. As for no need to argue minute details, you're new here, aren't you? That's what we do.

 

In the chapter, Setalle says that Cadsuane "supposedly had one or so rumor said." No actual proof that she has one that is the same as Mat's medallion, so I am still unconvinced.

Nightstrike has already given you the proof. "For Krassos, yes, a channeler could still channel wearing Mat’s amulet. Cadsuane has one much like it." How much proof do you need?

[Achoo]

We now have at most three items that are able to damage a gholam. However, the fact remains that the damage is slight, there are up to 5 gholam and each could kill hundreds or even thousands before one of the three get there. Even once someone with one of the needed ter'angel gets there, they have to best an extremely fast and strong opponent using only a medallion or something of that nature as weapon.

 

Cadsuane's and Nynavae's ter'angel might also be very small, like one of the former's hair ornaments, and therefore next to useless against a gholam.

[luftstark]

About Gholam i have to say a few things:

 

1- We know that 6 were created. We can assume that the one we have seen may have been found in one of the statix-box (sp) that Sammael found. So we can assume that maybe some of the others were locked on those boxes and since not all of the boxes were found (if they even remain) they may be lost forever. Also since the breaking changed so much, we can assume that some of the 5 may be unreachable, like burried under montains caused by mad channelers or locked at the deeps of the sea. I would be surprised if all 6 had survived... i think we will see, maybe, another one or two. One of the female Gholam would be nice, since most of the Shadowspawn are male centered (trollocs, fades, the ratio of forsaken, etc) and RJ has a tendency to seek a balance between the genders.

 

2- Gholam were designed to be ASSASSINS ... it means.. sneaking behind enemy lines and killing important channelers. Not open combat or mass genocide. To kill peasants we have trollocs, to kill soldiers we have Myrddral, to kill generals we have gray man and those bats i forgot the name, to kill ta'veren we have darkhounds and to kill channelers we have gholams... The shadow trully has a tendency to do things the nasty way... not open combat. So i would be surprised to see gholam marching with an army or something like that.

 

3- About it's resistance to endure wounds and non-channeling ways to kill it. Well, since Gholam is almost a vampire, one could assume it is really hard to kill. I can see it being killed by havin' it's head chop off. But not by being pierced by spears. Also Gholam IIRC, and i may be wrong, but i think they are able to sniff the OP and break weaves that were not pointed to them. That would make him nearly impossible to kill by a channelers... so i say... chop it's head, it's members, slice it's torso, take each part far away, burn it, bury it under tons of stone and hope no one saw you doing it. ^^

 

And.. well.. i know it's preatty much late for anything new to have an impact in TG.. but... i could see a new kind of Shadowspawn emerging from the blight (it has been too quiet later). It would be nice to see a surprise, created by the DO himself (since he can touch the world even more that he could at AoL), to turn the odds of the war.

 

[Achoo]

Although the gholam were meant as assasins, they could still be used in combat. They're really an all-purpose killing machine. I don't think killing a gholam will be as easy as cutting off its head. I would not be surprised if they could reform smaller or reabsorb the head and reform at regular size. I also don't doubt that they would be difficult, if not impossible, to burn. Remember, these things were meant to be nearly indestructible. As for cutting it into small bits...if you did manage it, it would be anyone's guess as to whether it would survive to reassemble, die or even become many tiny little gholams.

[Achoo]

Also, I wonder if the gholam shares the general Shadowspawn weakness of being unable to pass through a gateway?

 

The weave might dissolve when they try to pass through even if they didn't have the typical Shadowspawn weakness. If not, one could be rid of them by sending them to some remote location.

[Muad Cheade]

I was saying that RJ's statement wasn't clear enough to say that Cadsuane's ornaments did exactly what Mat Medallion did.

 

From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadsuane_Melaidhrin

                "She has nearly black eyes and wears her iron gray hair in a bun with many gold ornaments. The ornaments in her hair are angreal and ter'angreal. These include one that tells her the direction of somebody channeling the One Power be it the male or female half, one that senses a man's ability to channel, one that stores a small amount of saidar, one that goes cool when a woman embraces saidar and one that gives her the ability to disrupt an illusion when in close proximity to it."

 

So like I said earlier, her ornament doesn't negate the One Power but simply disrupts weaves of Illusion. Incidentally, how would that be handy prior to the events of the first book. No one knew that weave.

 

I'm not sure beheading would work. Remember how Mat's dagger had no effect when he threw it at "him." Also, who would be able to get that close. I think there is a failsafe with gholam though. The Forsaken had to be uneasy that assassins created to kill channelers could potentially be used against them.

 

And RAW, gholam could be the T1000 of the Wheel of Time. Gotta love Terminator references.

 

I can't really see a gholam fighting an army of thousands for some reason.

 

Finally, I'm not sure about gholam not being able to enter gateways. The ability to disrupt flows of the Power never kept Mat from Traveling. However, to the best of our knowledge, every other Shadowspawn can't so there's that. Then again, would gholam really be classified as Shadowspawn? I don't think there's a clear answer for gholam and gateways.

 

What do y'all think about balefire being able to stop them?

[water_seeker]

Then again, would gholam really be classified as Shadowspawn?

 

They were created by Aginor just like Trollocs...so yes, they are shadowspawn.

[Nightstrike]

I was saying that RJ's statement wasn't clear enough to say that Cadsuane's ornaments did exactly what Mat Medallion did.

Why wouldn't they? They are ter'angreal, they have the same effect, and channelers can wear them without any "problems".

 

From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadsuane_Melaidhrin

                "She has nearly black eyes and wears her iron gray hair in a bun with many gold ornaments. The ornaments in her hair are angreal and ter'angreal. These include one that tells her the direction of somebody channeling the One Power be it the male or female half, one that senses a man's ability to channel, one that stores a small amount of saidar, one that goes cool when a woman embraces saidar and one that gives her the ability to disrupt an illusion when in close proximity to it."

 

So like I said earlier, her ornament doesn't negate the One Power but simply disrupts weaves of Illusion. Incidentally, how would that be handy prior to the events of the first book. No one knew that weave.

Cadsuane has several ter'angreal. One disrupts weaves and one works as Mat's foxhead medallion. Are they one and the same? No, probably not, since Mat's doesn't disrupt weaves.

 

I'm not sure beheading would work. Remember how Mat's dagger had no effect when he threw it at "him." Also, who would be able to get that close. I think there is a failsafe with gholam though. The Forsaken had to be uneasy that assassins created to kill channelers could potentially be used against them.

The gholam are no immortals. People can defeat them. Six were made, but only one survives (as far as we know).

 

And RAW, gholam could be the T1000 of the Wheel of Time. Gotta love Terminator references.

I think the similarities with the vampires (as mentioned by RAW) are fitting better. A theme that RJ has used is that stories get changed during time, but that some truth of them remains.

 

Then again, would gholam really be classified as Shadowspawn? I don't think there's a clear answer for gholam and gateways.

They are classified as Shadowspawn in the BWB. Aginor made the gholam. They are evil constructs. I think it is very reasonable to expect them not to survive passing through a Gateway.

 

What do y'all think about balefire being able to stop them?

It probably depends whether the Balefire is a weave in itself, or if it is a phenomenon that arises from the Balefire weave. I'm not entirely sure. The channelers themselves must know for sure, though.

 

 

[Nightstrike]

I thought about Balefire and the Gholam. I think non-channelers can see the Balefire streams. And that saidin/saidar channelers can see each others Balefire streams. So, now I'm leaning towards Balefire being a phenomenon CAUSED BY a weave, and not a weave in itself. I'm thinking that Balefire might kill a Gholam after all. But maybe there are faster/more efficient things that could kill the Gholam... With less damage done to the Pattern, and so on. Bolt of lightning, Earth Singing, Deathgates, or maybe something else. Ultimate anti-Gholam weapon would be a sword that was also made into a ter'angreal (same properties as the foxhead medallion). The special combat skills of that Gholam might make it difficult to kill, even considering those possibilities.

 

 

[Mr Ares]

I was saying that RJ's statement wasn't clear enough to say that Cadsuane's ornaments did exactly what Mat Medallion did.

You were wrong. It is.

 

So like I said earlier, her ornament doesn't negate the One Power but simply disrupts weaves of Illusion.

Said it earlier, was wrong earlier.

Incidentally, how would that be handy prior to the events of the first book? No one knew that weave.

Moiraine did, for one. We don't know if that is the limit of what it can do. And as the set was created some time during the Breaking, it might have been very handy to the person who created it if more people were using Illusion then.

 

And if you wish to quote wikipedia, I shall counter with Wotmania:

Two intertwined moons go cool when a woman embraces saidar nearby:

 

    One of her ornaments, intertwined golden crescents, went cool on her temple

 

    - A Crown Of Swords, New Alliances,

 

when Alanna embraced saidar. This is similar in function to Mat’s medallion, which goes cold when he is touched with saidar or saidin. Like Mat, Cadsuane even wears the ornament touching her skin, which may be as much a necessity for the terangreal to work (as it is for Mat’s) as a way of feeling the temperature change. However, Cadsuane never mentions it going cool when a man seizes saidin, although she certainly knows when one does (Knife of Dreams, Vows), and it is unknown if it will stop direct weaves of the power, since no one has dared to touch Cadsuane with a weave yet. In his blog, Jordan confirmed that one of Cadsuane’s ornaments is like Mat’s and stops direct weaves of the power, so this ornament probably is it. Setalle Anan, a former Aes Sedai (probably Martine Janata of the Brown Ajah) had heard a rumour that Cadsuane had a ter’angreal that stopped a direct weave (Knife of Dreams, A Cold Medallion). Speculation: that function could be performed by another, as yet undescribed ornament, instead.

http://www.wotmania.net/faqtopic.asp?ID=108

[luftstark]

I'm not sure beheading would work. Remember how Mat's dagger had no effect when he threw it at "him." Also, who would be able to get that close. I think there is a failsafe with gholam though. The Forsaken had to be uneasy that assassins created to kill channelers could potentially be used against them.

 

IIRC, Mat dagger did perfurate the Gholam "flesh", but the wound had no effect on the Gholam, so we could assume he feels no pain, does not need internal organs to survive, and can regenerate itself. But is not "immune" to cuts and bruses.

 

So if Steel can cut it, he could be beheaded. Not saying it's an easy task, just that it's possible. And may be a good way to kill it, as it may (not sure, no reference at all) need it's brain to function. I don't think that Aginor could make a sencient creature, with clear ability to think and reason by itself (as we see on it's PoV) without some sort of Brain.

[Roxinos]

You know what would be cool? If the effects of Mat's medallion and the gholam's immunity to the Power cancelled each other out when they are both touching. So Mat touches the medallion to the creature, and then a channeler blasts it apart.

[mb]

The gholam are no immortals. People can defeat them. Six were made, but only one survives (as far as we know).

People can defeat them?  From the gholam's POV in Path of Daggers and from the incident in Crown of Swords, only the foxhead medallion could harm it.  The books might have told if an item with the same function existed in the Age of Legends; my guess is that the Eelfinn created it shortly before they released Mat.

The other 5 probably died of starvation.

 

[Mr Ares]

The books might have told if an item with the same function existed in the Age of Legends; my guess is that the Eelfinn created it shortly before they released Mat. The other 5 probably died of starvation.

We know from WH that Lanfear had never encountered one prior to the Cleansing. We have no reason to believe the Eelfinn created Mat's medallion, nor do we even know if they could do it. Why is it probable that the other 5 died of starvation?

[Luckers]

I'm pretty sure Rand will unite all of Randland behind his banner yet I doubt that's enough. Remember there have been two major wars against the Shadow: the War of the Shadow and the Trolloc Wars in which all of mankind was united against the Shadow.

          In the War of the Shadow, they had better technology, more powerful channelers and more numerous channelers at that. We know that the were Dreadlords but I'm pretty sure the Light outnumbered them. The Light also had superior generals for most of the war, yet the Light was still fighting a losing battle.

 

There were no Dreadlords in the War of Power--but as for Forsaken--there were hundreds of thousands, if not millions, just as there were Aes Sedai. Remember too though that the strength of such numbers was limited by the far greater presense of angreal and weapons like shocklances--we see a shockpistol used against channelers successfully in KoD, and such things need not be used by channelers.

 

It was a different game.

 

Another thing I forgot to add was that in the War of the Shadow and the Trolloc Wars is that the Light was unprepared. While there was the Collapse in the Age of Legends, the Light was not ready for the armies of Trollocs that came out of the Blight. The same goes for the trolloc Wars.

 

There was no Blight in the Age of Legends--and the Light was relatively prepared. The War of the Shadow began AFTER Lews Therin led the Light's forces to foil an attempt by Friends of the Dark to free the Dark One. The Light essentially struck the first blow.

 

And we have no statements about the Light's preparation for the Trolloc Wars one way or the other.

 

I don't believe Cadsuane and Nynaeve's ter'angreal are immune to the Power like Mat's medallion. I believe they just have wells, ter'angreal that can detect men and women's channeling and angreal and sa'angreal but I'm not completely sure. In the Chapter "A Plain Wooden Box" from KoD, it wasn't their ter'angreal that disrupted Semirhage's illusion. Nynaeve knew one of them was channeling but had masked her ability to channel and inverted the weaves and Cadsuane said she could "do something when they got closer." To the best of our knowledge, Mat's medallion is the only one tht can dsisrupt flows of the One Power.

 

They are, RJ states that Cadsuane's one (the two-intwined moons) is such, and we witness Nynaeve's version in the fight between Alivia and Cyndane. And it was Cadsuane's that broke the weave too.

 

Here is my list of Cadsuane and Nynaeve's ter'angreal.

 

Cadsuane’s and Nynaeve’s ter’angreal

 

Cadsuane’s

 

1. First Star - Vibrates when a man who can channel is nearby.

2. Hummingbird - Is a Well

3. Swallow - Detects channeling and indicates direction of channeler. Does not detect cross-gender links.

4. Shrike - Angreal

5. First Fish - Possibly breaks a distant weave (the way she took out Semirhage)**

6. Second Fish - Use Unknown to Cadsuane.

7. Third Fish - Use Unknown to Cadsuane.

8. Two intertwined Moons - breaks direct weaves (like Mat's).

9. A Crescent Moon - Use Unknown to Cadsuane.

10. Unmentioned Star - (The stars were mentioned in plural) Possibly breaks a distant weave (the way she took out Semirhage)**

 

These are that have been listed or implied, though there may still be more.

 

**It's unknown which ter'angreal allowed her to break Semirhages disguise though my money is on the Fish because Cadsuane states that she doesn't know the use of 'two of her fish' suggesting she knows the use of the third. Still, its uncertain.

 

Nynaeve’s

 

1. Rings and Bracelet - Angreal

2. Long Necklace with Rubies - Use Unknown**

3. Belt with Rubies - A Well for Saidar.

4. Bracelet with Rubies - Covers the user with Armour made from Air.

5. First Bracelet with Emeralds - Use Unknown**

6. Second Bracelet with Emeralds - Use Unknown**

7. First Ring with Green Stones (one single stone) - Detects channeling as much as three miles away, and vibrates differently for saidin or saidar (note: If the person has their weaves inverted then apparently the ring can't tell the difference between saidin and saidar).

8. Second Ring with Green Stones - Use Unknown**

9. First Ring with Saphires (one single saphire) - Goes cold when someone nearby is feeling hostile or angry.

10. Second Ring with Saphires - Use Unknown**

 

Unlike Cadsuane we know this to be every piece in Nynaeve's collection.

 

**One of the unknown ter'angreal breaks direct weaves, like Mat's medallion.

 

Since balefire seems to be a weave, rather than the indirect effect of a weave (like lightning) both Mat's ter'angreal and the gholam should be immune to its effects.

 

Maybe, in opposition, it always leaps from the hands of a channeler as a bar. This might suggest that the weave creats an effect, like lightning. The weave is the source from which the effect leaps.

 

But yeah, we don't know.

 

Regardless, the term refers to channelers who fight for the Shadow as I previously stated. If I saw so and so was a Dreadlord in the War of the Shadow you know he was a channeler who fought for the Shadow even if it is technically "wrong." The same goes for people who say that Taim will be leading the dreadlords at Tarmon Gai'don.

 

No it doesn't. The term dreadlord has already been used within the story to apply to those who will fight for the shadow in Tarmon Gai'don.

 

Dreadlord does not apply to those who fought in the Age of Legends, they are Chosen, or Forsaken.

 

Anyhoo, back on topic. According to the blog, Robert Jordan said Cadsuane has one that is very much like it." This fits in with what I said about it disrupting "illusions." Also, I don't remember Setalle Anan talking about Cadsuane or her ter'angreal in KoD. In fact, I think the only thing she said was that she was an Aes Sedai and was found by Jasfer when she couldn't channel and was nearly dead.

 

The one that breaks distant weaves is a different ter'angreal.

 

 

 

About Gholams--there are weaves that would effect them--lightning, the weave that Bethamin used on the Aes Sedai (sparks, akin to the effect of the shocklance) which Joline employed against Mat. Probably Deathgates too--gateways are stated to have little to do with the power once formed, and shadowspawn can't survive the passage. Create a Deathgate big enough and simply scoop the creature up.

 

 

[Muad Cheade]

Thanks for the article, Mr. Ares. I was not away the Jordan said in his blog that Cadsuane and Mat's ter'angreal were exactly the same.

 

There were no Dreadlords in the War of Power--but as for Forsaken--there were hundreds of thousands, if not millions, just as there were Aes Sedai. Remember too though that the strength of such numbers was limited by the far greater presense of angreal and weapons like shocklances--we see a shockpistol used against channelers successfully in KoD, and such things need not be used by channelers.

 

It was a different game.

 

Refresh my memory. I don't remember a shockpistol in KoD. I wasn't aware they even existed or we had knowledge of them.  Also, I believe Robert Jordan that there was increasing reliance on "uncivilized" things of war such as swords and horses due to technology be unreliable in the war.

 

There was no Blight in the Age of Legends--and the Light was relatively prepared. The War of the Shadow began AFTER Lews Therin led the Light's forces to foil an attempt by Friends of the Dark to free the Dark One. The Light essentially struck the first blow.

 

And we have no statements about the Light's preparation for the Trolloc Wars one way or the other.

 

There was no Blight originally but I think ever since the Bore it expanded. The Forsaken reminisced about how Shayol Ghul used to be a tropical island so the Blight mostl likely did.

 

Yes. Lews Therin Telamon started the war yet they weren't prepared for the Shadow to use constructs like the Shadowspawn. They probably thought they were just dealing with a human uprising.

 

At first the forces of the Dark advanced against an unprepared populace, taking vast swathes of territory and a number of cities. When the forces of the Light fought back, they pushed the Dark Ones forces back heavily, retaking a number of cities and considerable territory. But it was during this they discovered the terrible atrocities the armies of Trollocs and Darkfriends had committed, both when conquering areas and under the administration of the Dark One's followers. Cities retaken were little more than blackened wastelands, where people refusing to swear for the Dark One were burnt alive at the corners.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Events_in_the_Wheel_of_Time_series#The_War_of_Power

 

While the Compact of the Ten Nations was created eight hundred years prior to the Trolloc Wars, they were still unprepared.

The wars began with a series of increasingly heavy raids by Shadowspawn into the then-Borderlands of Jaramide and Aramaelle. However, the intensity of the attacks only became clear when the city of Barsine in Jaramide was destroyed. At this point the Aes Sedai and the Ten Nations rallied to face the threat, but were unable to contain it. The Trolloc armies struck deep into the Westlands, destroying the great Ogier-built city of Mafal Dadaranelle in Aramaelle amongst many other fortresses and settlements.

 

Aramaelle was eventually overrun and completely destroyed, although Jaramide managed to survive. With Aramelle gone, the Shadowspawn were able to sweep into kingdoms further south such as Aridhol and Coremanda, and around this time may have launched the first of four major assaults on Tar Valon.

 

The mid-war period saw the most desperate fighting, as humanity was pushed back on almost every front and the Shadow advanced. During this period the human armies began to develop new tactics which favoured encircling and destroying Trolloc forces they had split off from the main armies, since pitched field battles against superior numbers of Trollocs usually led to defeat unless large numbers of Aes Sedai were present.

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Trolloc_Wars

 

No it doesn't. The term dreadlord has already been used within the story to apply to those who will fight for the shadow in Tarmon Gai'don.

 

Dreadlord does not apply to those who fought in the Age of Legends, they are Chosen, or Forsaken.

 

As for the Forsaken and Dreadlords, only Rand/Lews Therin and the Forsaken knew that there were more than thirteen Forsaken. Therefore, that's why the term "dreadlord" refers to any channeler for the Shadow who isn't one of the thirteen known Forsaken.

 

If a scholar read "so and so was a channeler for the Shadow in the War of Power," he would instinctively call that person a dreadlord since he wasn't one of the known Forsaken.

 

[Muad Cheade]

Thanks. I just read that part. I wonder if Elayne could reproduce them. They could kill or injure a man at a hundred paces. That would be useful. And it doesn't need a channeler to use it. I doubt they'd duplicate it though.

[The Doctor]

Maybe the Foxhead was made by the people that made the Portal Stones.

[The Doctor]

Don't quote me and correct me, I think I might have been kidding.

[Muad Cheade]

I'm not sure about that because weren't they made before the Age of Legends? Channeling and technology wasn't that advanced. And the technology or knowledge needed to create something that repels the One Power seems to be a lot.

[The Doctor]

I was semi kidding, but...  wouldn't the portal stones be from a time more advanced than the age of legends?  I mean the Aes Sedai of the time didn't even fully understand them, and they same capable of doing some crazy Stargate kind of stuff that even the AoL AS can't do.

[Luckers]

There was no Blight originally but I think ever since the Bore it expanded. The Forsaken reminisced about how Shayol Ghul used to be a tropical island so the Blight mostl likely did.

 

I was speaking more to the local of Shadowspawn armies--in reference to this comment "While there was the Collapse in the Age of Legends, the Light was not ready for the armies of Trollocs that came out of the Blight."

 

There were indeed 'Blighted Lands' in the Age of Legends (or at the very least we have references to them in the early days of the Breaking.

 

But the Shadowspawn did not, as far as we know, spill out of them. Shadowspawn were spread accross the length and bredth of the land during the War of the Shadow, they weren't driven back to the Blight till much later.

 

Yes. Lews Therin Telamon started the war yet they weren't prepared for the Shadow to use constructs like the Shadowspawn. They probably thought they were just dealing with a human uprising.

 

Certainly the shadow surprised them, but you said the Light was unprepared. The Light was able to learn to the Shadow's attempt to free the Dark One, and able to thwart it--that suggests a relative degree of preparation to me.

 

While the Compact of the Ten Nations was created eight hundred years prior to the Trolloc Wars, they were still unprepared.

 

Quote

The wars began with a series of increasingly heavy raids by Shadowspawn into the then-Borderlands of Jaramide and Aramaelle. However, the intensity of the attacks only became clear when the city of Barsine in Jaramide was destroyed. At this point the Aes Sedai and the Ten Nations rallied to face the threat, but were unable to contain it. The Trolloc armies struck deep into the Westlands, destroying the great Ogier-built city of Mafal Dadaranelle in Aramaelle amongst many other fortresses and settlements.

 

Aramaelle was eventually overrun and completely destroyed, although Jaramide managed to survive. With Aramelle gone, the Shadowspawn were able to sweep into kingdoms further south such as Aridhol and Coremanda, and around this time may have launched the first of four major assaults on Tar Valon.

 

The mid-war period saw the most desperate fighting, as humanity was pushed back on almost every front and the Shadow advanced. During this period the human armies began to develop new tactics which favoured encircling and destroying Trolloc forces they had split off from the main armies, since pitched field battles against superior numbers of Trollocs usually led to defeat unless large numbers of Aes Sedai were present.

 

Again you are describing a war, not an assault on an unprepared foe. The Shadow destroyed the bulwark of human defence--which sat in place specifically to deal with this attack.

 

The borderlanders did not go 'oh my, what is going on?'. They were defeated, but that is not being unprepared.

 

As for the Forsaken and Dreadlords, only Rand/Lews Therin and the Forsaken knew that there were more than thirteen Forsaken. Therefore, that's why the term "dreadlord" refers to any channeler for the Shadow who isn't one of the thirteen known Forsaken.

 

If a scholar read "so and so was a channeler for the Shadow in the War of Power," he would instinctively call that person a dreadlord since he wasn't one of the known Forsaken.

 

He'd also be wrong, as were you. Assuming of course that such a scholar would not have access to this information.

[Charlz Guybon]

 

Don't know, it seems to me even if they pull millions of Trollocs, Myrddraal and other shadowspawn out of the Blight they'll still get their asses handed to them. I'm basing this conclusion on the fighting we've seen at Dumai's wells and the attack on the manor house in KoD, where a small group of channelers completely destroyed a vast army sent against them.

 

There were no enemy channelers at the manor house. If there had only been a handful of Black Ajah it would have been enough to change the tide. The Shadow only needs enough Dreadlords to occupy the Light's channelers long enough for their shadowspawn to close and get into melee range.