Last Battle

[Lord Nik]

Read the Question and answer accordingly...  ::)

 

 

 

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I would like to think that if the Light wins this time. They win for good. Any other idea is just playing Russian roulette with your self; but you need to keep pulling the trigger till time finds the bullet.

[Roxinos]

Intellectually, I know that it is just another turning of the Wheel (the idea has been repeated constantly throughout the entire series. The cycle of time is a central tenet to the world Jordan created.) However, I naturally want a more definite ending.

[Vambram]

Intellectually, I know that it is just another turning of the Wheel (the idea has been repeated constantly throughout the entire series. The cycle of time is a central tenet to the world Jordan created.) However, I naturally want a more definite ending.

 

Ditto.

Although I voted for the third choice in this poll.

[Lord Nik]

I really thought there would be more people going for the Dark One getting killed.

 

The thing that throws me off on this is all the talks of "We have done this a thousand times a thousand times but this time the DO will kill time forever"

 

bla bla bla

 

It really has a taste of finality in this turning so I dont see why the DO cant get his a@s kicked forever as well.

 

And also if they have battled a thousand times a thousand times.. Has the light won every time???

 

If so the Dark has pretty s!@#$% odds against them.

[RobertAlexWillis]

It really has a taste of finality in this turning so I dont see why the DO cant get his a@s kicked forever as well.

 

I don't think the Dark One can actually be killed/destroyed, any more than the Creator can be.  And, what gives this one "a taste of finality"?  Do you have another account of a different turning to compare it to?  'Cause I would love to read it!  :D

 

And also if they have battled a thousand times a thousand times.. Has the light won every time???

 

Since the Wheel is still a-turnin, I'd say yes.  The Shadow may have won relatively small victories (the Breaking), but it has never completely triumphed.

[Lord Nik]

I don't think the Dark One can actually be killed/destroyed, any more than the Creator can be

 

Why do you think that? The creator created everything. Not the DO. I dont see why they would be on the same level at all. I dont have a clue where the DO came from in the WOT but making him invincible seems far fetched.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Why do you think that? The creator created everything. Not the DO. I dont see why they would be on the same level at all.

 

Just because their abilities are different doesn't mean that they aren't equal.  RJ compared his conception of this world to Manichean philosophy.  Look that up and you might know why I think the way I do.  (I don't mean look up the quote.  I mean look up Manichean philosophy.)

[Lord Nik]

This is from the other thread but I made this thread in response to the other one. People who know what Im talking about, good; if not carry on.

 

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I'm going to have to join the Ranks of the

"this is the Last Battle against the shadow"

 

I think there will still be wars but not against the DO.

 

Unless the DO wins!!!!!!

[RobertAlexWillis]

Actually, the reverse is true.

 

If the Dark One wins, no one will have to fight him ever again.  Game over.

 

If the Light wins, we get to do this all over next turning.

[Dark Justice]

Actually, the reverse is true.

 

If the Dark One wins, no one will have to fight him ever again.  Game over.

 

If the Light wins, we get to do this all over next turning.

 

You are just writing what I did in the other thread.. You parrot...  ;)

[RobertAlexWillis]

Um ... DJ want a cracker?  :P

[Dark Justice]

hehe.. sure.. I mean. I must have been the first one ever to even think the entire;

If DO wins... bla bla bla.. If team Rand wins... bla bla bla...  ;D

[arkinia]

What I don't get is if the Dark One is some undefeatable entity why has it been said multiple times in different contexts "...enough power [or something] to challenge the Dark One..." I mean I understand it could be some sort of hyperbole or idiom or something, but I think it has to mean... something. :O

[a5m]

Couldn't it be the opposite this time? After all, we have the portal stone experiences (I've won again, Lews Therin!)

 

The last battle could represent the Light actually winning. All the other times, the Light ended with a stand off with the Shadow hence the repeating effect due to the Dark One's luck. Yes, the DO could win too this time and remake the world in his own image too though I think that is much less likely.

[Dark Justice]

What I don't get is if the Dark One is some undefeatable entity why has it been said multiple times in different contexts "...enough power [or something] to challenge the Dark One..." I mean I understand it could be some sort of hyperbole or idiom or something, but I think it has to mean... something. :O

 

Im pretty sure Lanfear and Rand could have challenged the DO with Kick Ass Sangreal. But what does that mean? IMO it means they could have locked him up, and pretty much rule like they (well.. Her more than him, really..) saw fit. As for challenging the creator, not really likely, since he is not really aroud to be challenged.

 

Couldn't it be the opposite this time? After all, we have the portal stone experiences (I've won again, Lews Therin!)

 

The last battle could represent the Light actually winning. All the other times, the Light ended with a stand off with the Shadow hence the repeating effect due to the Dark One's luck. Yes, the DO could win too this time and remake the world in his own image too though I think that is much less likely.

 

No standoffs. A standoff doesnt make the DOs prison completely intact, like it was before Lanfear desided to do her stupid drilling.... There must have been a completely and utterly win in the last turn for it to be like that.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Or ... and here's a shocker ... Lanfear was drunk with the idea of power, and trying to do something that wasn't wise or even possible.

 

She drilled the Bore looking for power, remember?  Not a great track record.

[Rinkai]

If I was rand, I wuld try and find some way of incorparating the the seanchan territories in the last battle. There aren't any gateways there. No shadowspawn. There has got to be a way to use this without leaving the mainland open for raping.

[Mr Ares]

If I was rand, I wuld try and find some way of incorparating the the seanchan territories in the last battle. There aren't any gateways there. No shadowspawn. There has got to be a way to use this without leaving the mainland open for raping.

If I was Rand, I wouldn't get myself involved in that quagmire. It's a multi-sided civil war, and it's not pretty, and it's not going to end any time soon. Going to Seanchan is a pretty bad idea at the moment.

[Bela]

Everyone seems to think the Dark One is some overpowered omnipotent being. Yes he can touch the world and change the weather, which required only a circle of thirteen to change back. Not a very large amount of the power there, especially compared to Rand and the Choedan Kal. For all we know he/she/it could be a weak old entity/person. They say the Dark One could destroy all worlds. Rand could too.

[Hallow]

Everyone seems to think the Dark One is some overpowered omnipotent being. Yes he can touch the world and change the weather, which required only a circle of thirteen to change back. Not a very large amount of the power there, especially compared to Rand and the Choedan Kal. For all we know he/she/it could be a weak old entity/person. They say the Dark One could destroy all worlds. Rand could too.

 

As for power levels ive always imagined that the Dark one in his full force matches Rand linked with [insert name of very strong female channeler here] using both parts of the choeden khal, whilst Rand unaided is about the same strength of Ishamael unaided, just my interpitation of things.

[Bela]

Everyone seems to think the Dark One is some overpowered omnipotent being. Yes he can touch the world and change the weather, which required only a circle of thirteen to change back. Not a very large amount of the power there, especially compared to Rand and the Choedan Kal. For all we know he/she/it could be a weak old entity/person. They say the Dark One could destroy all worlds. Rand could too.

 

As for power levels ive always imagined that the Dark one in his full force matches Rand linked with [insert name of very strong female channeler here] using both parts of the choeden khal, whilst Rand unaided is about the same strength of Ishamael unaided, just my interpitation of things.

 

Easily acceptable and plausible. But like I said Ishy has never met the Dark One and for all we know he could be a frail guy behind a curtain. My whole belief on this matter is that the Dark One will be destroyed in the Last Battle. Not defeated momentarily, not imprisoned, but completely and utterly destroyed. So I try to reason out how this is possible without Rand getting some extreme luck or the Creator stepping in. Padan Fain is the scariest thing in the books imo.

[Hallow]

Everyone seems to think the Dark One is some overpowered omnipotent being. Yes he can touch the world and change the weather, which required only a circle of thirteen to change back. Not a very large amount of the power there, especially compared to Rand and the Choedan Kal. For all we know he/she/it could be a weak old entity/person. They say the Dark One could destroy all worlds. Rand could too.

 

As for power levels ive always imagined that the Dark one in his full force matches Rand linked with [insert name of very strong female channeler here] using both parts of the choeden khal, whilst Rand unaided is about the same strength of Ishamael unaided, just my interpitation of things.

 

Easily acceptable and plausible. But like I said Ishy has never met the Dark One and for all we know he could be a frail guy behind a curtain. My whole belief on this matter is that the Dark One will be destroyed in the Last Battle. Not defeated momentarily, not imprisoned, but completely and utterly destroyed. So I try to reason out how this is possible without Rand getting some extreme luck or the Creator stepping in. Padan Fain is the scariest thing in the books imo.

 

My basis for what I said was that the DO tainted saidin alone and Nynaeve and Rand with the sa angreal cleansed it, seems equal to me.

[Bela]

Everyone seems to think the Dark One is some overpowered omnipotent being. Yes he can touch the world and change the weather, which required only a circle of thirteen to change back. Not a very large amount of the power there, especially compared to Rand and the Choedan Kal. For all we know he/she/it could be a weak old entity/person. They say the Dark One could destroy all worlds. Rand could too.

 

As for power levels ive always imagined that the Dark one in his full force matches Rand linked with [insert name of very strong female channeler here] using both parts of the choeden khal, whilst Rand unaided is about the same strength of Ishamael unaided, just my interpitation of things.

 

Easily acceptable and plausible. But like I said Ishy has never met the Dark One and for all we know he could be a frail guy behind a curtain. My whole belief on this matter is that the Dark One will be destroyed in the Last Battle. Not defeated momentarily, not imprisoned, but completely and utterly destroyed. So I try to reason out how this is possible without Rand getting some extreme luck or the Creator stepping in. Padan Fain is the scariest thing in the books imo.

 

My basis for what I said was that the DO tainted saidin alone and Nynaeve and Rand with the sa angreal cleansed it, seems equal to me.

 

Yes but pouring oil into water is not the same as removing the oil from the top of the water. The strength and time needed to do each are opposites to the extreme.

 

Imagine taking a bowl of water and pouring a glass of oil into it. Task done and the oil will float to the surface. Now imagine scooping, sifting or funneling (as Rand did) that oil out. That would be nearly impossible.

[live.fast]

Um guys..

 

what about what that dead philosopher dude kept talking about...

 

how the Last Battle is not Tarmon Gaidon?

 

Did that not weird you out?

 

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that there's something VERY DECISIVE about whatever climax is going to happen in this series, for the WoT universe, and Light v DO clashes. If only for the fact that the philosopher dude got killed, and this is the last thing he ever really told Rand and Min.

[Lord Nik]

Hmm that Last Battle Not Last Battle does weird me out.

 

But I'm With Bela on this one. I dont know about the DO wizard of Oz behind a  curtain deal but I really think the Dark is going to get killed forever this time; Or the light!  :o

 

Just that talk with Ishy.. where was it.. in the dream as Balzamon? He was busy calling someone a beetle under a rock but he was like "this time the serpent will be slain hahahaha"

Well if the serpent could be slain why not the DO? People are defending that it's impossible to kill the DO but its fine and dandy that TIME can be killed. I say if you can tear the "beating heart" out of time you can kill the DO!