Question

[fadge100]

i was rereading one of the earlier books, i'm sorry i forgot which one, but there was a part when egwene visited tel'aran'rhiod, i think it was the first time, and there was an elderly women, who was telling her stuff, while she was at the heart of the stone.

 

Can someone tell me who this women was, this is probobly a stupid question, and i might have missed something, but i really couldnt remember finding out who she was, could someone help me out.

 

Thanx

[Blackrose]

its one of the Aiel wise ones.. i'll go find the name now

[fadge100]

are you sure, because i seem to remember the elder women refering to egwene as a lady, and i think you might be refering to the time amys found egwen flying in some city

[RobertAlexWillis]

It was Lanfear, masquerading as a servant named Silvie.

 

TDR ch 27

[Graendals favourite]

She most certainly was Lanfear, and notice how Lanfear and Egwene had just met in the Tower, and she had seen the dream ter'angreal. So the old woman's reference of Egwene finally making it there makes sense.

 

I have wondered if it might be Moghedien, but it seems Lanfear makes much more sense.

[Blackrose]

Ah, forgot about that. ty RAW

[fadge100]

o alright thanx alot RAW

[Blackrose]

was moghedien even free at this time?

[RobertAlexWillis]

was moghedien even free at this time?

 

Yes.  All the Forsaken were free by this time.

[Blackrose]

ah ok, i'll just try and get this re-read done faster

[RobertAlexWillis]

We don't get precise release dates for all of them, but its pretty safe to assume that everyone except Aginor, Balthamel, and Ishamael, of course, all got out during the period between the end of TEOTW and the beginning of TGH.  They would have been active, but hidden (except Lanfear, of course, who we see), throughout TGH.  We finally begin to see them in TDR.

[mb]

was moghedien even free at this time?

 

Yes.  All the Forsaken were free by this time.

 

We cannot be certain of that.  The only ones whose release was certain would be Ishamael (Eye of the World), Lanfear (Great Hunt), Belal & Rahvin (Dragon Reborn Chapter 4).

Those last 2 with the rest I think would have been released at the beginning of Dragon Reborn at the earliest, more certainly after chapter 37 because of one of Egwene's dreams (men and women breaking out of a cage, then putting on crowns); actions & memories do not support them being released before then.

 

[ChildofLight]

We also knew Sammael was free at that time

[mb]

We also knew Sammael was free at that time

Sammael's first appearance was in Chapter 42 which was after the chapter.

 

[DemandredFO]

Wasn't Rahvin free by the end of tGH because he took command of a riots faction in caemlyn.  Didn't it go Ishamael, Aginor, Balthamel, Lanfear, Rahvin, Belal, Sammael and then everyone else.  I have a foresaken question; why didn't Moiraine seem to believe Perrin when he told her Lanfear was free.  Was it an Aes Sedai game or something

[RobertAlexWillis]

We cannot be certain of that.  The only ones whose release was certain would be Ishamael (Eye of the World), Lanfear (Great Hunt), Belal & Rahvin (Dragon Reborn Chapter 4).

Those last 2 with the rest I think would have been released at the beginning of Dragon Reborn at the earliest, more certainly after chapter 37 because of one of Egwene's dreams (men and women breaking out of a cage, then putting on crowns); actions & memories do not support them being released before then.

 

We have established time frames for Ishamael (never completely) Aginor and Balthamel (they're in TEoTW) and Lanfear (at or near the beginning of tGH). 

 

Given the time frames of comments in the story and what they needed to accomplish, it seems pretty clear that they were all out around the same time as Lanfear, or at worst, only a little later.  They all had to learn the new language (not too difficult, according to RJ, but it would take a LITTLE time, see his comments here: http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=183 Question 14), then learn local customs and political landscapes, and then set themselves up.

 

Sammael, for example, was already established as Lord Brend by the time of TDR ch 42.  According to Nieda, he had arrived the previous winter.  That is exactly the same time frame in which Rahvin arrived in Caemlyn.  (TDR ch 45)  The winter of 998-999 NE is before the beginning of The Dragon Reborn.  Be'lal, of course, shares the same timing, as does Mesaana, given their conspiracy to bring the wondergirls to Tear. (yes, I know her name is never mentioned in TDR, see LoC ch 6) The timing of Neferi's death and her replacement by Anath Dorje (aka Semirhage) puts it slightly earlier (just prior to the events at Falme, given Tuon's reminiscence in WH ch 14).  That means that all of these (Sammael, Rahvin, Be'lal, Mesaana, and Semirhage) had to be out before the events at Falme.

 

We don't have evidence of any time frame for Demandred, Graendal, Asmodean, or Moghedien.  Each seems to have been as established as they would get by the time we see them in the story, because none of them took overt control of a country.  But there is no reason to believe that it took them any longer to get out than the others.  Their POVs all indicate that they went to great lengths to remain hidden, so the fact that we don't see them until later in the story is not indicative of a later release date, it is indicative of their methods.

 

I believe that is all thirteen.  Lets see: Aginor, Asmodean, Balthamel, Be'lal, Demandred, Graendal, Ishamael, Lanfear, Mesaana, Moghedien, Rahvin, Sammael, Semirhage.  Yep, thats all of em.

 

So, it is all but certain that all the Forsaken got out, at the latest, during the events of The Great Hunt.

 

Edit: bloody spelling

[Guest dragonsworn1991]

I was wondering about Moiraine, do you think she is bonded to the wheel, or will she be found in the crazy world by someone?

[Kaznen]

From Lanfear's comments to Rand in tSR I got the impression she was at the bottom of the pile when the forsaken were sealed.  And Asmodean would have needed plenty of time to learn how to speek the langauge, learn to play a modern instrument, learn the musical stylings of the modern time and learn all the history, songs, stories, and poems he would need to know to pass as a gleeman.

 

General time frame:

tEotW ended at the beginning of spring.

tGH started at the beginning of Summer and ended at the middle to end of fall.

tDR started at the end of winter.

 

So about a year passed between the end of tEotW and the beginning of tDR.

[fadge100]

hey guys, appreciated the replies from my first question.

 

I actually have another one, and i didnt wanna start a whole new thread for every question i had (probably be a bunch).

 

Does anybody have any idea why mat felt, through his fox head ter' angreal, halima (aran'gar) channeling at him with saidin, i thought it only worked on saidar, because rahvin killed him?

[Kadere]

It works with Saidin as well. Rhavin didn't directly use Saidin on Mat. Saidin created the lightning, and the lightning affected Mat. Direct use of either Saidin or Saidar does not work on Mat when he's wearing the wolf head.

[fadge100]

o ok i see, hmmm, i always thought that lightning it'self was channeling directly (a weave), so it couldn't touch him.... ok makes sense

 

thanx Kadere

[Dark Justice]

yep. Kadere is correct there. You make the lightning, and where (more or less, depending on your control and strenght) you want it to hit, but from there on its only force of nature.

If the windfinders threw wind at Mat, he would be affected the same way. The power creates the wind, from there on, just force of nature.

[Eleint]

yep. Kadere is correct there. You make the lightning, and where (more or less, depending on your control and strenght) you want it to hit, but from there on its only force of nature.

If the windfinders threw wind at Mat, he would be affected the same way. The power creates the wind, from there on, just force of nature.

 

I would argue this, up to a point.  If you simply shape the natural world, it's like that.  IF you create a huge gust of air, your power is still shaping it, so it would dissipate.

 

What Rahvin did is draw on the clouds to rain down lots of lightning.  He triggered the blasts, but the blasts were just normal lightning.  He didn't do Air and Fire (or whatever) to form lightning, he used Fire and such to force the clouds to create lightning in a specific area.

 

In the same way, a Windfinder sending a blast of wind at Mat would have it dissipate.  The Windfinder shaping the weather to create a generalized weather effect like a tornado that is self-sustaining and not formed directly of the power would work.

[Dark Justice]

well. that was what I ment... You wouldnt sustain the weave, you make the wind first, and then let it go free.. Like the windfinders do. (wich is why I used them for the example...)

[Eleint]

well. that was what I ment... You wouldnt sustain the weave, you make the wind first, and then let it go free.. Like the windfinders do. (wich is why I used them for the example...)

 

Ah, okay!  I took it differently 'cause I don't think you can 'target' normal weather like that, I took it to mean more targeted, like boom, blast of wind at Mat, rather than 'create a weather pattern that makes it really windy in the area'. :)