How did Rand Know?

[CUBAREY]

i don't have my books how the heck am i supposed to quote anything?  link sites for web books if you want to insist on a quote.

 

When you base your theories on statements that supposedly are contained in the books it is coutesy to sight the Book and Chapter that you belive the comment was made. Otherwise we have to take your word that you remember a specific line said in a specific way. You may be correct but it offers no evidence to others who remember the statements made in a different way or not made at all.

[Mr Ares]

compared to him killing people out of paranoia? yes, it makes him more human.

I'll bear that in mind. Magic makes a character more human than simple human emotions. I would have thought that as people really can be paranoid, but so far as I know they can't detect Grey Men, the one that actually exists in humans is the one that would make someone more human.

[Thor]

there's nothing magical about being able to sense a grey man coming close to you.  many people in this world can sense it when someone is watching him/her.

[metria31183]

Thor, would you please respond to my comments before continuing your claims. I mean, you claim LTT claimed that 'death was coming' yet no such comment appears in the books. You made specific reference to Alanna's bond as if it held significance, yet have not stated why. And you made claims about Rand's technical knowledge of the power that have clearly been proven false.

 

I'm very interested in discussing this with you, but you are ignoring responses. Please sustain your arguments.

 

 

i don't have my books how the heck am i supposed to quote anything?  link sites for web books if you want to insist on a quote.

 

FWIW, LTT does day "Death comes" in Rand's head.  In LoC, Chapter 28: Letters it was right after Rand Traveled to Caemlyn early in the morning, the day after his first meeting with the Tower AS in Cairhien.  But there was no Grey Man or even any Shadowspawn.  He was talking with Nandera and Jalani about not understanding women and LTT just started talking.

 

I can't give the exact quote since I'm listening to the audiobook and it's a little hard to try and transcribe it while I'm at work.

 

Edit:  There was a Grey Man that showed up later.  Sulin came with a letter from Alliandre of Ghealdan and Rand was reading it in his rooms.  Rand kept thinking about a "feeling of filth."  The Grey Man came into the room and Rand trapped him.  Taim came in and killed him.

[Thor]

/hug

/lick

/kiss

[agaga]

Thor, would you please respond to my comments before continuing your claims. I mean, you claim LTT claimed that 'death was coming' yet no such comment appears in the books. You made specific reference to Alanna's bond as if it held significance, yet have not stated why. And you made claims about Rand's technical knowledge of the power that have clearly been proven false.

 

I'm very interested in discussing this with you, but you are ignoring responses. Please sustain your arguments.

 

 

i don't have my books how the heck am i supposed to quote anything?  link sites for web books if you want to insist on a quote.

 

FWIW, LTT does day "Death comes" in Rand's head.  In LoC, Chapter 28: Letters it was right after Rand Traveled to Caemlyn early in the morning, the day after his first meeting with the Tower AS in Cairhien.  But there was no Grey Man or even any Shadowspawn.  He was talking with Nandera and Jalani about not understanding women and LTT just started talking.

 

I can't give the exact quote since I'm listening to the audiobook and it's a little hard to try and transcribe it while I'm at work.

 

Edit:  There was a Grey Man that showed up later.  Sulin came with a letter from Alliandre of Ghealdan and Rand was reading it in his rooms.  Rand kept thinking about a "feeling of filth."  The Grey Man came into the room and Rand trapped him.  Taim came in and killed him.

 

The exact quote in LOC chapter 28 Pg. 399 HB Is

Death Lews Therin whispered

Rand forgot everything else Death? what do you mean?

Death comes.

What kind of death? Rand demanded what are you talking about?

Who are you? Where am I? [lews Therin]

 

the grey man doesn't pop in for another five pages.

Meaning the grey man could have very well still been just entering the Palace.

 

You propose that LTT a mad man who didn't even know where he was could sense a grey man that was hundreds of feet away? I find that very very hard to believe.

 

Then again That's just my opinion.

[Thor]

he could tell exactly the nature of the shield at dumai's wells also, so whoa re you to say he can't sense a grey man?  and 5 pages is 5 pages, but could well be just 2 minutes in real time.  No humanoid can move 'hundreds of feet' in 2 minutes, not unless they are moving at sprinting speed, in which case any retard can detect them.

[agaga]

he could tell exactly the nature of the shield at dumai's wells also, so whoa re you to say he can't sense a grey man?  and 5 pages is 5 pages, but could well be just 2 minutes in real time.  No humanoid can move 'hundreds of feet' in 2 minutes, not unless they are moving at sprinting speed, in which case any retard can detect them.

 

Have you read the five pages? Rand has enough time to read two letters argue with maidens and himself and by the time the gray man comes he's not even thinking about LTT anymore.

 

Think about this then LTT is insane with moments of sanity not the other way around. So why give him the power to sense a grey man which no one else can do that we know of. When we can mark it off as the ravings of a mad man? How many times when LTT is around is he not either raving about death either for himself or for killing someone else, if he's not doing that he's wining about losing Illynia. (SP)

 

So all you're basing your argument off of is two words spoken by a mad man?

[Thor]

when he raves, he usual says something in the line of 'i deserve death' or 'i killed them all, now i must kill all again' or 'kill them kill me finish it'.

 

Death comes.  that is a distinct phrase.

[agaga]

when he raves, he usual says something in the line of 'i deserve death' or 'i killed them all, now i must kill all again' or 'kill them kill me finish it'.

 

Death comes.  that is a distinct phrase.

 

True It is distinct but in the end he's a mad man and there was no prove of him being able to do it in the AOL. Granted we don't know a whole lot about the AOL and what we do know is shaky and not positive at least most of it isn't I still don't see any reason to conclude that LTT can sense grey men

 

[metria31183]

 

Have you read the five pages? Rand has enough time to read two letters argue with maidens and himself and by the time the gray man comes he's not even thinking about LTT anymore.

 

 

 

Rand having the "feeling of filth" is mentioned when LTT says "Death comes."  I believe that is conclusive enough to determine that Rand can sense Grey Men because they are Shadowspawn.

[Yllek]

LTT said "death comes"  Not "death is here".  As preivously mentioned, they grey man showed up shorty thereafter and I think that 5 pages written by an author known for rich and lenthy descriptions can possibly encompass a "short" amount of actual time. 

 

I agree with Thor that the statement is indicative of the Grey Man.

[agaga]

 

Have you read the five pages? Rand has enough time to read two letters argue with maidens and himself and by the time the gray man comes he's not even thinking about LTT anymore.

 

 

 

Rand having the "feeling of filth" is mentioned when LTT says "Death comes."  I believe that is conclusive enough to determine that Rand can sense Grey Men because they are Shadowspawn.

 

Grey men are not shadowspawn

 

LTT said "death comes"  Not "death is here".  As preivously mentioned, they grey man showed up shorty thereafter and I think that 5 pages written by an author known for rich and lenthy descriptions can possibly encompass a "short" amount of actual time. 

 

I agree with Thor that the statement is indicative of the Grey Man.

 

true R.J can go into lengthy descriptions of things, but I just don't think it's possible that LTT can sense grey men I think there would have been more hints I think there would have been something else besides one time in camyln that's not even assured proof.

[metria31183]

 

true R.J can go into lengthy descriptions of things, but I just don't think it's possible that LTT can sense grey men I think there would have been more hints I think there would have been something else besides one time in camyln that's not even assured proof.

 

Then what is the feeling of filth that was mentioned at least twice in that scene?

[agaga]

alright I re-read the passage and I think maybe you're right LTT might be able to sense grey men At least that seems to be what R.J. is getting at him or Rand one.

 

 

[MikeRiley]

It does seem that Lews Therin can sense grey men, but I think if there's any special ability Rand has to detect them it is his being taveran. He happened to notice something he might have missed otherwise and put two and two together.

 

Aes Sedai and Warders can't detect grey men so it wasn't Alanna's bond. We know this because Lan and Moraine were surprised that Perrin saw the grey men on their run to Illian. The grey men were in the room and they didn't even notice anything was wrong. Perrin didn't even see them at first, it was their smell that got him looking.

[Telzen]

Can't channelers sense those that are deep in the shadow? Rand says "She was the most dangerous", as he goes to kill the merchant. Couldn't he have sensed that she was a long time darkfriend? I thought this had been stated, but now that I think back I don't remember it ever working.

[agaga]

Can't channelers sense those that are deep in the shadow? Rand says "She was the most dangerous", as he goes to kill the merchant. Couldn't he have sensed that she was a long time darkfriend? I thought this had been stated, but now that I think back I don't remember it ever working.

 

Not exactly Warders can Sense shadowspawn and sometimes Warders can sense someone very very deep in the shadow like as evil as fain probably wouldn't pick up much then that.

 

In that passage my own thinking is that Rand took her for the leader because of her clothes. He thought she was a lady or a merchant. He was still probably wet enough behind the ears to think that someone with nice clothes would be the leader and the leader would be the most dangerous.

[Fox]

Doesn't Moriaine say something to the effect of being able to detect shadowspawn. Thats why Lan and her started yelling about trollocs before anyone in the Two River knew. She also stated somewhere in the same explaination that she can't tell who darkfriends are unless they were very deep in the shadow? That being the case Rand could of sensed the women if she was deep in the shadow. Also, i agree that gray men are shadowspawn and can be "picked-up" by channelers. When the gray man is in the white tower (i can't remember who it was, egwene I think) egwene felt something "wrong" in the air before the gray man tried to kill her. I could be wrong. 

[MikeRiley]

That could have been a feeling of being watched. It's an extra sense everybody has. Channelers can't detect grey men, we know this from.. The Dragon Reborn I believe. It's the scene where Lan, Moraine and Perrin are in a tavern or inn and Perrin spots a bunch of grey men crossing the room. Lan and Moraine had no idea they were there.

 

Aes Sedai can sense shadowspawn as a rule but grey men are an exception due to their not having a soul.. or something like that. They can't detect darkfriends or the Black Ajah would have been discovered long ago.

[Mr Ares]

there's nothing magical about being able to sense a grey man coming close to you. many people in this world can sense it when someone is watching him/her.

That is something diffrent. You attribute to LTT a unique power to sense the presence of Grey Men.

[agaga]

there's nothing magical about being able to sense a grey man coming close to you. many people in this world can sense it when someone is watching him/her.

That is something diffrent. You attribute to LTT a unique power to sense the presence of Grey Men.

 

It's true he is but if you go and read the passage at least it looks like that's what RJ want's us to believe or at least to some extent with Rand's comments on a feeling of filth "like the faintest brushing of the taint" Even before the Grey man comes into the room

[Mr Ares]

there's nothing magical about being able to sense a grey man coming close to you. many people in this world can sense it when someone is watching him/her.

That is something diffrent. You attribute to LTT a unique power to sense the presence of Grey Men.

It's true he is but if you go and read the passage at least it looks like that's what RJ want's us to believe or at least to some extent with Rand's comments on a feeling of filth "like the faintest brushing of the taint" Even before the Grey man comes into the room

Which is not relevant to my point. My point is that giving someone extra powers, that humans don't have, does not make someone more human but less so.