Random Questions

[xocist]

I've searched this forum for answers, in fact one of the sole reasons i signed up to this light forsaken forum was to get some answers. Now that I've realised NOBODY knows who killed Asmodean (or however you spell that funked-up gleeman's name) I decided to pursue a different line of questioning.

Firstly is there anywhere I can find a list of real-world references in WoT, I know there must be plenty, I spot a few every now and then, and I assume there are loads I missed. I've found some rather incomplete lists before and I just wondered if anybody has got furhter than the couple I saw. I mainly say this because it throws me into a fury whenever i spot the references (often by complete chance, the two that most messed me up were Lord Luc/Lord Lucan and Stone of Tear/Sword in the Stone kinda things) but yes... For the sake of my sanity, I want to have other people point them out rather than discover them for myself...

Another question, more speculative, is whether or not the Taint on Saidin is like the True Power (or maybe made from it)... I mean it seems similar enough, seems to have similar effects, only you can't use tha Taint at all... And if not, what is (or was) the Taint made from? I've never quite grasped that...

Another question is about balefire. If I balefired you and someone else balefired me, would you come back because my balefiring was undone? If so, then if the person who balefired me was then balefired by you, teir balefiring of me would be undone and therefore my balefiring of you would be redone and therefore your balefiring of them would be undone thus their balefiring of me would happen and mine of you would be undone and- the wheel unravels and the dark one breaks free... or something... bad shizzle happens, one assumes... but yes...

Also, I've read quite a few theories on what will happen next in WoT, what is the most absurd you've heard? (my friend and I once came up with a lot of stupid ones and i wondered if anyone else got bored enough to do it)

Yet another question, is it normal to be so addicted to these books?

Hehe... Does anybody else find it funny when Rand essentially goes "I'm not mad, but the voices in my head are!"? ^_^

Also, who here DOESN'T find Logain the absoloute SEX?!!

Erm... One last question... err... erm... how many Seanchan does it take to change a lightbulb?!!

[MikeRiley]

I think if you're balefired, you're done. So if somebody balefired the guy that balefired you, you still wouldn't come back. Everything about using balefire seems to suggest it brings nothing but chaos though and this could just be one of those ways.

[Roxinos]

I can't give you a list, I'm sorry.

 

Another question, more speculative, is whether or not the Taint on Saidin is like the True Power (or maybe made from it)... I mean it seems similar enough, seems to have similar effects, only you can't use tha Taint at all... And if not, what is (or was) the Taint made from? I've never quite grasped that...

 

Umm, no. The taint is merely the Great Lord's touch on saidin. As the name implies, it is just a taint for something so pure. And considering the taint is from an entity that is presumably pure evil (and considering what that entity's influence is on the Blight) you can imagine what it's influence would be on something as pure as the One Power.

 

If I balefired you and someone else balefired me, would you come back because my balefiring was undone?

 

Balefire doesn't work the same way most other weaves do. It reacts directly with the Pattern. Presumably, the thread that a person or object represents is simply burned away when balefired. So, if I used balefire on you, and someone does it on me in return, you're still gone.

[mb]

The Structured discussion section has a thread about Asmodean's killer.  Like I told in the thread, Graendal would to me the most reasonable candidate.

 

References to real life, the links on the following page discuss various references:

http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/3_sources/index.html

 

The taint was the Dark One's counter stroke to being sealed in the bore.

The True Power I doubt was the method used.  And the two do not seem to relate.

 

The following link talks about balefire:

http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/2_nondark/2.3_one-power/2.3.07_balefire.html

 

[Luckers]

The Structured discussion section has a thread about Asmodean's killer.  Like I told in the thread, Graendal would to me the most reasonable candidate.

 

Wow... scary moment, me and Mb agree with each other. lol.

 

Also, I've read quite a few theories on what will happen next in WoT, what is the most absurd you've heard? (my friend and I once came up with a lot of stupid ones and i wondered if anyone else got bored enough to do it)

 

Lol. Yup, I wrote out a point by point summary of what i guessed the plot would be which can be found here. http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,20038.msg527994.html#msg527994

 

Erm... One last question... err... erm... how many Seanchan does it take to change a lightbulb?!!

 

Three. The Imperial functionary to change it, the headsman to kill her for doing her duty to the Empire, and the seeker to somehow link it all to a plot by the White Tower.

[Majsju]

Also, I've read quite a few theories on what will happen next in WoT, what is the most absurd you've heard?

 

Most absurd...Must be the idea someone came up with about Verin being a timetraveller.

[Luckers]

Wasn't that the one where Dumbledore was her father or something? I may be getting mixed up.

[Majsju]

I do not think it was quite that absurd ;D

 

Actually, it was two conflicting ideas. One where she travelled forward in time, from the AOL. And one where she travelled back in time. In that one, Mat was her father, because of a comment Verin made about how her father used to say "It is time to roll the dice", a classic Mat-comment.

 

It is theories like this that shows that we have waited way too long for the next book... ;D

[Casco]

There is many real-world references in WoT series.

Crown of swords/jesus "crown" on the cross, is one of them (maby thats a saga to, but some think he did exist).

 

The sword dancing/samuraj ( same with the sword themself, they look like samuraj swords)

 

I realy hope Brandon dont miss this small things in AMOL, Jordan did put in small real-world references everywhere, and i like that alot.

 

The answer to balefire is easy, you cant undone a death to someone who did not exist in the first place. When you balefire him, he will never have existed, only the memories do remain. Hes pattern will be removed from the big pattern, totaly. You cant undo his death (he did not live or die according to the pattern)

 

The Verin theory is realy a nice one :D infact, i did react on the comment "It is time to roll the dice" when i did read the books, and she seems to know where to be, at the right time, all the time.

I was very unsure about Verin.... is she good or evil?? When she did that thing with the prisoned red sister in the ail camp, i did think that she must be evil, or know things that must be changed before they happens. She is prepeared to pay the price for it.

 

[Luckers]

I do not think it was quite that absurd ;D

 

Actually, it was two conflicting ideas. One where she travelled forward in time, from the AOL. And one where she travelled back in time. In that one, Mat was her father, because of a comment Verin made about how her father used to say "It is time to roll the dice", a classic Mat-comment.

 

It is theories like this that shows that we have waited way too long for the next book... ;D

 

Lol, I know--at the portal stone. I was making a bad joke because there was a similar theory about Ron being Dumbledore.

 

Crown of swords/jesus "crown" on the cross, is one of them (maby thats a saga to, but some think he did exist).

 

How was that a reference? The crown of swords and the crown of thorns were different in both look and effect--the Romans gave Jesus the crown of thorns as a joke--they were saying 'look what happens to him who would be king of the jews'. Rand claimed the Laurel Crown in victory. Beyond which the Laurel Crown has leaves and swords, no thorns. It certainly wasn't made of briars. If you were going to reach for that connection would not the Rose Crown fit better? At least roses have thorns.

[ROB_88]

about Balefire, i think that if A is BF'ed by B but very weak, just a few seconds. and then B is BF'ed more strong like a few minutes, then i think it may be possible to bring them back.

 

unless Jordan has straightforward said the opposite

[Roxinos]

Balefire doesn't work the same way most other weaves do. It reacts directly with the Pattern. Presumably, the thread that a person or object represents is simply burned away when balefired. So, if I used balefire on you, and someone does it on me in return, you're still gone.

 

That's why it wouldn't work the way you suggest, Rob.

[xocist]

Another question concerning Balefire... I wondered this shortly after discovering exactly what balefire was... Right, after Lews Therin went crazy he did a load of random shizzle and was given a moment of sanity so he could see what he had done... Then he went and killed himself or some such similar... Didn't the thought of simply balefiring himself to undo half the crazy rubbish he did occur to him? I mean... Sure he might not have been thinking straight at the time, but in those sorts of circumstances the Deus Ex Machina Weave seems must obvious... I mean Rand thought of it when going after Rahvin.

Incidently, this Verin theory seems ever so weird. Is time travel possible in the wheel of time? I mean with portal stones and some such? I mean balefire can kinda interfere with it... Or would you have to leap in a stasis box and wait until a rotation of the wheel is almost complete to go back in time. Circular time and all that. Makes, sense, I read it in a book once... I think it was a book about postmen or something. Anyways... Yes... Why not, eh?

[Sab]

Well first not sure if LTT balefired himself or if it was just a case of him drawing way too much of the power. Secondly depending on how long ago he did those things (say 30 minutes or maybe an hour) not sure even if at max power he could undo that far back.

 

Portal stones can't take you back in time (least not that I know of), just take you to alternate realities and live other lives.

[ROB_88]

Balefire doesn't work the same way most other weaves do. It reacts directly with the Pattern. Presumably, the thread that a person or object represents is simply burned away when balefired. So, if I used balefire on you, and someone does it on me in return, you're still gone.

 

That's why it wouldn't work the way you suggest, Rob.

 

yea, i never really believed that theory myself

 

 

Didn't the thought of simply balefiring himself to undo half the crazy rubbish he did occur to him?

the amount of Balefire needed to undo all that he did would unravel the patterm, atleast a little. it is afterall banned by all at that point.

and lets not forget that BF is something that comes out of you'r hands, in a straight line and on to a target every time that we've seen it

[mb]

Crown of swords/jesus "crown" on the cross, is one of them (maby thats a saga to, but some think he did exist).

 

How was that a reference? The crown of swords and the crown of thorns were different in both look and effect--the Romans gave Jesus the crown of thorns as a joke--they were saying 'look what happens to him who would be king of the jews'. Rand claimed the Laurel Crown in victory.

 

Actually, Rand did not claim the crown; Rand was offered it and he accepted, not the same as claiming.

The only similarities are that the person wearing is a savior and that each crown hurts.

 

 

Balefire doesn't work the same way most other weaves do. It reacts directly with the Pattern. Presumably, the thread that a person or object represents is simply burned away when balefired. So, if I used balefire on you, and someone does it on me in return, you're still gone.

 

That's why it wouldn't work the way you suggest, Rob.

 

Actually if the second balefire is strong enough to go to before the time of the first one, the first victim would come back.  Yet if the second balefire is not strong enough, the first victim would still be gone.

 

 

About Lews Therin, various sources tell that he did not balefire himself.  I am not sure if he could have if he wanted to.

Like another poster, I think he simply overdrawn on the One Power.

 

[Samudor]

Agreed, Lews Therin I don't think was even thinking about that at all- I think he simply drew on the Power until it consumed him- and there is no record of someone ever using balefire on themselves. As for Rand- he only thought of the effects of balefire after he used it on Rahvin. At the time of the fight with him, Rand was simply thinking to use the most powerful thing he knew in order to eliminate Rahvin- that would be balefire. Once it dawned on him that his balefire had saved Mat and Aviendha, Rand decided to use it on the Shadowspawn that remained in order to cut the number of people who died in the battle.

[Roxinos]

Lews Therin's death is not something you need to think about. He committed suicide. If it wasn't obvious in the scene itself, Lews Therin's voice in Rand's mind pretty much confirms his suicidal tendencies. He knew what drawing that much of the Power would do.

 

I would respond to mb, but I've decided that he/she is merely a troll. So, I'm ignoring him.

[Mr Ares]

Now that I've realised NOBODY knows who killed Asmodean...

Brandon Sanderson does.

For the sake of my sanity...

Too late. You've already signed up.

Also, I've read quite a few theories on what will happen next in WoT, what is the most absurd you've heard?

If you want absurd theories, you can't go wrong with CrazyMike - Masema is a Wilder, Asha'man should train their own Aes Sedai, Lan can learn to channel (hence his luck), Kari al'Thor was a Darkfriend ordered to kill Rand - these are some of the more plausible ones. Oh, and apparently Aes Sedai were "convicted felons sentenced to live in Bondage under the OAT RODS as punishment for their crimes" during the AoL,,,,,also, this: http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,6194.msg184367.html#msg184367

Yet another question, is it normal to be so addicted to these books?

No. That means you'll fit in much better with the rest of us freaks.

 

Also, who here DOESN'T find Logain the absoloute SEX?!!

I don't.

Erm... One last question... err... erm... how many Seanchan does it take to change a lightbulb?!!

Trick question - they use the Power!

[Luckers]

Actually, Rand did not claim the crown; Rand was offered it and he accepted, not the same as claiming.

The only similarities are that the person wearing is a savior and that each crown hurts.

 

Semantically, Rand, in accepting the offer, 'claimed' the crown. Legally speaking, anyway. Jesus was still nothing but a 'criminal' being mocked.

 

As for the rest, Jesus was a spiritual savour, Rand a warrior. The spiritual well being of his people matter nothing to him.

 

 

[Jethro]

Well first not sure if LTT balefired himself or if it was just a case of him drawing way too much of the power. Secondly depending on how long ago he did those things (say 30 minutes or maybe an hour) not sure even if at max power he could undo that far back.

 

Portal stones can't take you back in time (least not that I know of), just take you to alternate realities and live other lives.

 

Lews Therin drew an incredible amount of the Power, way more than he could handle, and as a result everything in a 500 foot radius was destroyed. Im pretty sure there was a crater left there, which I assume would have become Dragonmounts mouth.

 

As for balefiring yourself, there are those who believe you cannot do so. I cant see how it would work; if you balefired yourself, your actions would be undone, so you had no longer balefired yourself from the word go. I think its one of those weird situations like balefires touching creating a link between both wielders. If you shot balefire at your own foot, I think you would just die, but all your actions would remain, since the balefire effect wouldnt be able to undo itself. Maybe it would tie the persons thread in a knot hehe.

[pxnsolid]

Lews Therin drew an incredible amount of the Power, way more than he could handle, and as a result everything in a 500 foot radius was destroyed. Im pretty sure there was a crater left there, which I assume would have become Dragonmounts mouth.

 

I dont htink this is xactly how it would work. I think the amount of power he drew caused enough destruction that he essentially bored to the core of the planet and the ensuing , umm, bore, as it were, forced rock out and "grew" if he did create a crater in the first place, there would of been nothign left of it by the time the mountain was stable. a mountain. 

 

 

[Roxinos]

Man, you guys don't have that great of a memory.

 

He drew on the True Source deeply, and still more deeply, like a man

dying of thirst. Quickly he had drawn more of the One Power than he

could channel unaided; his skin felt as if it were aflame. Straining,

he forced himself to draw more, tried to draw it all.

      "Light, forgive me! Ilyena!"

      The air turned to fire, the fire to light liquefied. The bolt that

struck from the heaves would have seared and blinded any eye that

glimpsed it, even for an instant. From the heavens it came, blazed

through Lews Therin Telamon, bored into the bowels of the earth. Stone

turned to vapor at its touch. The earth thrashed and quivered like a

living thing in agony. Only a heartbeat did the shining bar exist,

connecting ground and sky, but even after it vanished the earth yet

heaved like the sea in a storm. Molten rock fountained five hundred

feet into the air, and the groaning ground rose, thrusting the burning

spray ever upward, ever higher. From north and south, from east and

west, the wind howled in, snapping trees like twigs, shrieking and

blowing as if to aid the growing mountain ever skyward. Ever skyward.

      At last the wind died, the earth stilled to trembling mutters. Of

Lews Therin Telamon, no sign remained. Where he had stood a mountain

now rose miles into the sky, molten lave still gushing from its broken

peak. The broad, straight river had been pushed into a curve away from

the mountain, and there it split to form a long island; it lay dark

across the land like the ominous hand of prophecy. For a time the

dull, protesting rumbles of the earth were the only sound.

[Vambram]

That appears to look like Balefire to me. But then again, maybe it wasn't?

[MikeRiley]

It's a bolt, not a shaft of light. Doesn't Ishmael say something to Lews Therin along the lines of "You fool, you'll kill yourself!" when he sees the amount of the power that's being drawn? I'd check it but the dog ate that part of my copy of Eye of the World.