Favourite and most hated characters

[alexbjt]

I'm sure this topic has been done before, but I can't find any recent incarnation, and Brandon Sanderson's notes on the characters made me think about the growth of each character through the series, so here's my thoughts to get things started;

 

Rand - Not sure what you are doing reading the series if you don't like the main man! He has many issues, sure, but the way RJ developed Rand from the naive farmboy to the hardened leader of men he is now was brilliant.

 

Perrin - The transformation into Lord Perrin and battling the Trollocs are some of my fav chapters, however Perrin is a tad simplistic, and like many others I do not like Faile which can't help but impact my opinion of Perrin!

 

Mat - Cops a bit of flak, but he is my favourite character.  Is loyal and courageous, and is a more complex character than he gets credit for, and he stil manages to have fun where most characters are being crushed by their own importance/seriousness..

 

Aviendha - Seems to get a bit of criticism for attributes that are simply a result of her cultural upbringing, and I think she is a favourite of mine despite the fact that we very rarely get a POV from her.

 

Elayne - Self obsessed, petty and overall not that bright.  While she was raised to be the Queen, that is no excuse for her shortcomings.  Hate that Rand fell for her as well as Aviendha and Min.

 

Min - I love Min, and certainly don't agree with the view she is a pointless character.  She is the rock for Rand when he desperately needs someone to treat him as Rand rather than the DR.  Might not be able to channel or wield a sword against 3 blademasters, but she is just as important to Rand as Mat or Perrin in her own way...

 

Nynaeve - Totally agree with Brandon Sanderson on this one - hated her on the first read through, but on subsequent reads i love her growth, and appreciate the way she looks out for the Two Rivers people - feels an obligation to look after them.  Despite her obvious narrowmindedness on occasions (esp re the intelligence of men), is a great character.

 

Faile - In short, can't stand her.

 

Berelain - Quite like Berelain, despite her man-hunting ways.  Is a good leader of people and I like the way she goes about things (other than her pursuit of Perrin, which I think is immature - just wanting to get something to prove she can)

 

Moiraine - Can't wait to see what happens in AMoL with her, she has been missed in the last few books!  New Spring was great to see more of her.

 

Egwene - Quite liked the chapters on her establishing herself as Amyrlin, and is clearly quite intelligent, but overall I REALLY don't like her.  She thinks she is more intelligent than she is for one, is quite condescending to Rand and men in general, and not sure she will be any less domineering than Elaida as Amyrlin!

 

OK that's enough from me, thoughts?

 

 

[DhaiMon]

Didn't we have this before...?

 

Rand - Not sure what you are doing reading the series if you don't like the main man! He has many issues, sure, but the way RJ developed Rand from the naive farmboy to the hardened leader of men he is now was brilliant.

No argument here; I do hope the poor boy gets to live in a post-Last Battle world where he is finally rid of his sickness, maimed hand and the twin wounds. And can lord it over his three women as the pimp that he is. *chuckles*

 

On another note, something absurd such as Rand simply "respawning" on the spot where he "dies to live" would kind of make me laugh. It really would. Not as elaborate as the body-swap theory, but still. :D

 

Perrin - The transformation into Lord Perrin and battling the Trollocs are some of my fav chapters, however Perrin is a tad simplistic, and like many others I do not like Faile which can't help but impact my opinion of Perrin!

...

Faile - In short, can't stand her.

What would this series be without a little soap-opera, undying love, relationship problems and all that? These two fill their parts out quite well according to that. I see Faile as the better Elayne, really. Or what Elayne might end up to be. I like Faile. I don't like Elayne as she is now.

 

Mat - Cops a bit of flak, but he is my favourite character.  Is loyal and courageous, and is a more complex character than he gets credit for, and he stil manages to have fun where most characters are being crushed by their own importance/seriousness..

Why good ol' Matrim would deserve "flak" in anyone's eyes...pfff

Guess the same people don't like Tyrion Lannister. Who kicks ass. Who I want to stomp on his "dear sister" laughing all along and then step up on the "throne" of House Lannister. He deserves it.

Tyrion rules, Mat rules. That's the way I see it.

 

Aviendha - Seems to get a bit of criticism for attributes that are simply a result of her cultural upbringing, and I think she is a favourite of mine despite the fact that we very rarely get a POV from her.

I want her to disabuse Rand's notion(which he has, admit to it people, he's a man after all!) of easily handling her, Min and Elayne. I want some of her fierceness to return again.

RAND: Avi, wanna-

AVIENDHA: *knife in hand* Don't think about it, Rand al'Thor.

 

:D

 

Elayne - Self obsessed, petty and overall not that bright.  While she was raised to be the Queen, that is no excuse for her shortcomings.  Hate that Rand fell for her as well as Aviendha and Min.

I don't like her as well. It's a positive "not like", though, since I enjoy seeing a stupid, nosy noblewoman fail over and over again. Might have the stuff to be a "dignified queen"(as dignified as queens of her sort can be, anyway) in the end. No competition to Faile, though. Hope Rand will beat some sense into her, if nothing else will.

 

Min - I love Min, and certainly don't agree with the view she is a pointless character.  She is the rock for Rand when he desperately needs someone to treat him as Rand rather than the DR.  Might not be able to channel or wield a sword against 3 blademasters, but she is just as important to Rand as Mat or Perrin in her own way...

Agreed. Min's lovely.

 

Nynaeve - Totally agree with Brandon Sanderson on this one - hated her on the first read through, but on subsequent reads i love her growth, and appreciate the way she looks out for the Two Rivers people - feels an obligation to look after them.  Despite her obvious narrowmindedness on occasions (esp re the intelligence of men), is a great character.

Nynaeve rules. In the end, she'll beat the Dark One back into his prison with her braid. :D

 

Berelain - Quite like Berelain, despite her man-hunting ways.  Is a good leader of people and I like the way she goes about things (other than her pursuit of Perrin, which I think is immature - just wanting to get something to prove she can)

Let her marry Galad already. Perfect couple, perfect twist(good-and-perfect-to-a-fault knight marrying a quite...liberal...monarch.

I smell drama. :D)

 

Moiraine - Can't wait to see what happens in AMoL with her, she has been missed in the last few books!  New Spring was great to see more of her.

Hope she'll have sense enough to see that she's been gone for too long, and needs to help Rand as advisor. And not boss around as much anymore as before.

 

Egwene - Quite liked the chapters on her establishing herself as Amyrlin, and is clearly quite intelligent, but overall I REALLY don't like her.  She thinks she is more intelligent than she is for one, is quite condescending to Rand and men in general, and not sure she will be any less domineering than Elaida as Amyrlin!

I want to see her face when she finds out that the Oath Road was meant for criminals.

 

 

(Yes, I support that theory. :D)

 

 

 

OK that's enough from me, thoughts?

Hope mine are clear. ;)

 

EDIT: "Soup-opera" indeed. I still wait for that gun.

[Tyrell]

Min - I love Min, and certainly don't agree with the view she is a pointless character.  She is the rock for Rand when he desperately needs someone to treat him as Rand rather than the DR.  Might not be able to channel or wield a sword against 3 blademasters, but she is just as important to Rand as Mat or Perrin in her own way...

Agreed. Min's lovely.

 

Min would be awesome, in a Phedre kinda way, as a heroine who doesn't need to be able to kick arse, unfortunately she's also a walking talking plot device, capable of dispensing the sorts of BS prophetic imagery and whatnot that gets people on internet message boards discussing and running around in circles changing "foreshadowing, foreshadowing, foreshadowing". And which I hate.

 

I don't really like Rand, I wouldn't invite him around for a tea-party the state he's in right now anyway, he's become a true Tyrant, and hasn't the brains to atleast lay down the Tyranny on those who deserve some (cough Taim cough).

 

Elayne, I hate with a passion. She's a selfish little child with a superiority complex and an overdeveloped sense of her own importance and entitlement, because of her horrific character traits a hell of a lot of people die.

 

Galad is awesome, Gawyn is a psychopath who follows much closer to his sister when it comes to bad character traits (guess Morgase is carrying the gene necessary to create little monsters from hell).

 

Egwene I can take or leave, she's bearable and other times not. I'd certainly pick her for Amyrlin over Elaida, but I'd pick anyone and everyone short of Else Grinwell for Amyrlin over her.

 

Perrin is alright in theory, but I hate him anyway. He sidetracked for how many books - how many chapters, how many damn pages - chasing after his bitch wife? And he's whipped, so very whipped.

 

Berelain rocks. No holds bared bitchery when she wants to bring it, and willing to do absolutely whatever is necessary to secure the safety of her nation; no pretentions here.

 

Mat you can't help but like, he's the real hero here.

 

I like Tuon.

[alexbjt]

 

I see Faile as the better Elayne, really. Or what Elayne might end up to be. I like Faile. I don't like Elayne as she is now.

 

Despite my not liking Faile - I would certainly take her over Elayne.  Faile has strength and determination, which like her or not, I do respect.

 

And Tyrell, I like Tuon too.

[DaTaimsta]

Rand: I'll just start off by saying that as a character, Rand is quite annoying to me. He doesn't realize simple things (such as the fact that Lews Therin raves whenever he's around Taim for a REASON) and he either uses too much force in certain situations, or too little. However, I can't help but feel attached to his character and just like some of my more favorite characters, I'd hate to see him die.

 

Egwene: I've disliked Egwene's character since she started feuding with Nynaeve in the Eye of the World after they leave the Two Rivers. She's nosy, overeager, and after she stopped loving Rand she became even worse to me. But I will admit....I DID feel sorry for her when she gets captured and made damane.

 

Moiraine: Absolutely love this character. Moiraine is my favorite character in the entire series and I nearly weeped when she went out in Fires of Heaven. It's the main reason why I badly want to read New Spring. I don't know if I'd like a young, impetous Moiraine as much, but being my favorite character, I want to read more and more about her.

 

Galad: I've always liked Galad for some reason. At first I said "meh" but the obligation he shows to those he cares about is pretty cool to me. Elayne is right about his one character flaw; always doing what is right, but I loved his character since the Fires of Heaven when he said "Yes, Nynaeve, I do have a sense of humor." or something along those lines. Also, wouldn't it be interesting if he had ended up with Nynaeve? Elayne did say later in the series that he fancied her earlier on.

 

Nynaeve: Speaking of Nynaeve....I rather like her character. Many, and I mean many people find her intolerable because of her attitude, but I've always liked fiery women and Nynaeve is the definition of fiery. I like how she matures over the course of the books and how her relationship with Lan mellows her out later on.

 

Elayne: I despise Elayne ever since she was introduced in the Eye of the World. I think the fact that she falls for Rand so quickly is kind of stupid to be honest. She is arrogant, a know it all, and quite frankly I don't care about her tinkering with ter'angreal. The only thing I relatively like about her is that she can show a caring side at times.

 

Min: I think Min is ok...I don't like her that much but I don't hate her either. I just don't like how she fell in love with Rand....and by the next character I tell you about, you'll find out why.

 

Aviendha: I think she's the only one for Rand.....seriously, I do. Hate on me all you want, but I think she's much better with Rand than the other two. Now, don't get me wrong, I didn't write WoT and I don't think RJ screwed up by having Rand fall in love with three women, but since Aviendha was introduced I liked her paired with Rand.

 

Faile: Many people do not like Faile...and I respectfully disagree with them. At first I think Faile is a bit immature and expects to beat Perrin around like the wuss he is. However, as she grows to love Perrin and they get married, I feel she matures and becomes a woman, just as Perrin becomes a man.

 

Mat: Love the character. Probably in my top three favorites. When he gave the coins to the woman and her starving kids in Shadow Rising (was that it?) and then tried to act like it wasn't a big deal, I loved his character and it's only increased since then.

 

 

[Tumeric]

Matt's an easy character to like; he's a larrikin, hasn't met a toffy-nosed unit that he couldn't try to knock down a peg or two, would rather drink beer and play cards than do anything resembling work, and plays off the front foot if there's a fight he can't avoid.... must be an Aussie, I reckon...

 

Tuon's another good one: despite all the sense of duty and pomp instilled in her as heir to an Empire, she's got a pretty good sense of the ridiculous and a keen intelligence, putting a lot of effort into analysing her reactions to given inputs before formulating her opinion...

 

Egwene, as of KoD, is coalescing into a mature and powerful leader, ready to come into her own as an undisputed and legendary Amyrlin Seat.

 

Many of the other female characters seem to have a bit too much of a stereotypical outlook for me to warm to them completely...

 

Perrin seems a little too small town for the events which are being put upon him, but I guess if you look at human nature, he's credible... a good mix of characters: not everybody's a virtuous hero, and they all display completely believable human foibles.

[DemandredFO]

Remember one of the things that makes this series great is that there are characters that we can love and hate.  As to some of the characters not realizing what they should do is that we as readers are seeing the whole picture whereas the decision-makers only have their information.

Egwene:  As everyone who reads my posts that wander onto the topic of Egwene, I despise her, I didn't but now I do.  I think she exemplifies power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.  I think the biggest issue with Egwene is she was given almost complete independence too young.  Nyneave was a wisdom, and Elayne was trained to be a queen.  Enough said

Faile:  I didn't like Faile on the first few listens but now I do like her.  Her tricking of Loial is a big sore spot but I regard her time with the Shaido as penance for that.  Over the books she seems to get more mature as Perrin gets less mature.  If Perrin doesn't kill her for love I think she will do well.

Perrin:  Perrin and Egwene are the only two characters I really hate.  I get that Perrin deeply loves his but his screw the world if only I can have Faile.  He knows his destiny and if he saved faile and sidestepped fate everyone will die, including Faile.  I realize Perrin did a great amount of good by accident but he didn't mean to.  I know people, in the story, probably see him as a genius since they can't read his mind but hopefully after his slaughter of Rolan at least Faile sees him for the monster he has become.

Mat:  Great character

Rand:  Great character, despite his shortcomings.

Nyneave:  See Rand

Elayne:  Complex, her brother, Gawyn, should be killed.  She has the strength be a great queen.

[Treblkickd]

Yeah this seems like a decent way to start out with a posting career.  I started reading WoT back in 97 but went on hiatus for the past few years and only recently picked it up again for a re-read, so everything is fresh in my head.

 

Rand: So it's impossible to really empathize with Rand and what he's had to deal with throughout the series, but you've gotta feel some sympathy for him.  It's also pretty difficult to really like him in that by the later part of the series 'grumpy' is him in a good mood. I like him in that I really really hope that he ends up with either some happiness, or at least some peace and a sense of satisfaction that he's done the best that he could trying to save the world.

 

Egwene: Frustrating.  I disliked her in the first ~2 books but was beginning to warm to her by LoC.  She has had some of the best opportunities of anyone in the series for personal growth and perspective, but she doesn't really seem to have gained all that much wisdom from them by the time she's Amyrlin. In a lot of ways I think she's making many of the same mistakes that Rand is (or at least experiencing a lot of the same negative personality developments) but with far less justification. Her situation in KoD may be helping to give her a smidgen of humility though, so I'm hopeful that she rebounds at the end of the series.  She's kind of a megalomaniac at this point, though (or at least she certainly was by the end of CoT).

 

Moiraine: The way the books are written it's pretty tough to like Moiraine for a long while, as she never gets many POVs, but her courage facing Be'lal and Lanfear (not to mention single-handedly carving the Emond's Field gang a path through tons of shadowspawn in the first book) is remarkable.  And by the time the later books come around I feel like I've gained a ton of perspective as a reader that really reveals Moiraine as a hero.  So I'm a huge Moiraine fan, and consider her one of the absolute most heroic characters in the story.

 

Galad: Galad is a good guy, but has been tangential to the main story.  He's admirable in that he possesses a sense of self (possibly due to being a bit older) and a strong moral compass. And he's more human than anyone seems to really give him credit for.

 

Gawyn: Gawyn is one of the most tragic characters in my eyes (and not only because he's gonna end up with Egwene - the poor guy).  His world has really been torn down around him, and he's been placed in some miserable positions.  His decision-making looks bad from the reader's perspective, but then again he's been mis-informed about so much.  Maybe he'll break down and come out as a good guy if he can reuinite with Egwene, Elayne, and Morgase - but even that seems a stretch to me given his current worldview.

 

Nynaeve: I've gotta echo the sentiment that I used to detest Nynaeve, but re-reading the series and looking back over all the books she's now one of my favourites.  Also, her awesomeness increased like 10-fold in The Golden Crane chapter of KoD - that was one of the most amazing scenes ever.

 

Elayne:  I seem to be in the minority on this one but I really like Elayne.  She's got the courage, and I also think she does the best job maybe of anyone of balancing her obligations (to Andor, to Rand, to being Aes Sedai).  She is prone to jump before she looks but the truth is you need some folks like that if you're in the business of saving the world and being a leader.  A world of Elaynes would probably be a terror, but having one around is fantastic.

 

Min:  Meh, Min is boring.  Agree with the above opinion that she's mostly a walking talking plot device.

 

Aviendha:  Aviendha is really cool but she doesn't get nearly enough POVs.  Those that we do have are great, though.  She's deeply humble and she knows who she is and who she wants to be.  I'd really like to see more of her in AMoL (and preferably she could replace Min as the one with Rand, as Min is just lame).  I loved it when she tried to sell Elayne on them conspiring to do Min in, and was disappointed that never happened.

 

Faile:  Yeah, I don't really like Faile, but nor do I really dislike her.  She's kind of an intrusion on the plot in my mind.  For example, I'm really annoyed that she's getting POVs in the story and Aviendha is not.

 

Perrin: Perrin was excellent early on in the series, but I've definitely soured on him since the whole Masema/Faile/Shaido storyline.  He doesn't seem to be able to hold more than one idea in his mind at a time, and that whole "there's a job in front of me needs doing" mantra is getting pretty old.  It's a complex world, and it's about to go up in flames, so it's time to expand your thought process a little bit.  Now that Faile is free he has a chance to redeem himself and so something useful, but I'm not too optimistic.  Probably most of my negative thoughts re: Perrin (and Faile) stem from the length of that Faile/Shaido plot line.  There's just no sense in letting that drag out so long (or rather in devoting so much redundant POV and storytime to it).

 

Mat: The greatest.  The absolute greatest.  Always does the right thing and is all about winning.  At everything.  All the time.  But what really makes Mat is his self-image as a guy who just does what he has to in order to get by.  It's a kind of humility born of self-delusion, and somehow it's awesome.  Sure, Mat was really irritating through the first ~4 books or so, but by the end of ACoS he's all grown up.  His adoption of Olver is probably the most compassionate act in the series to date.

 

 

Overall I'd list Mat, Moiraine, and Nynaeve as my favorites with Min, Egwene, and Perrin as my least favorites.

[alexbjt]

Overall I'd list Mat, Moiraine, and Nynaeve as my favorites with Min, Egwene, and Perrin as my least favorites

 

All well made points, and other than Min I'm pretty similar.

 

Still don't get why people (and I think there are many of them out there) think Min is a boring character.  Admittedly she doesn't go out killing Myrdraal, or defeating Forsaken, but a book with ONLY characters that can kick ass at every important point in the story will truly be BORING.

 

I do agree with the point that Min seems to be used as a plot device to introduce glimpses of the future, which i think is overused by RJ (sorry!).  But that shouldn't affect everyone's opinion of Min. 

 

She is tough and resourceful from her days growing up in Baerlon.  She has had to deal with a gift that seems like a curse to her, and no doubt made it very difficult to have any close friendships, let alone relationships.  She knows she will fall in love with Rand (and admittedly I don't like how quickly both Elayne and Min fall head over heels,) and takes it in her stride.  She would do anything to protect the ones she loves, and tries her damnedest to help Rand retain some humanity against all the obstacles he has to negotiate.  Brilliant character IMO.

[Jethro]

I have several favorites so I will just list a few.

 

Rand. Not simply because he is the main guy, but because his development from farmers son to saviour of the world seems so realistic. His reactions to everything, from being the strongest channeler he is aware of to beating himself up mentally over the women that have died for him, all make for brilliant reading, especially with the PoV-style of RJ.

 

Taim. Taim, Taim, Taim! What else do I need to say? He is so in-your-face with his hostilities towards Aes Sedai, so eager to do them harm; Im surprised Rand didnt realise something was up before. Let the Lord of Chaos Rule! The one thing about Taim I dont like is the way he commands the Ashaman like theyre animals. "Kill! Sit! Play dead!" I wouldnt stand for that if I was Ashaman. Everything else he does is great though.

 

Moridin. His image is brilliant. An immortal man reincarnated, the Nae'blis, the only True Power user we know of, and linked to the Champion of the Light. As Ive noted in other threads I have been anticipating a fight between Rand and Moridin for a lifetime it seems. The one thing I want though, is for Rand to find out who Moridin is without Moridin telling him. Maybe through the link they can communicate, and Moridin begins taunting him, Lews Therin recognises the Ishamaels voice (I imagine that even though Moridins voice is different to Ishamaels that in his mind he still has Ishamaels voice, if you get what I mean) and starts ranting and raving, and then Rand figures it out.

 

Moiraine. She is by far the best female character in the series. Sometimes people think that a character can only develop is you watch him start "from scratch" like with Rand and all that lot, yet Moiraine does. She is the first Aes Sedai that really realises that Rand must be allowed to do what he will, and what he must. Shes immense, I cant wait till shes back.

 

As for dislikes, Elayne does my tree in, with her nose in the air, the little brat! I cant wait till she drowns, Brandon told me she would. And Egwene as well, she became Amyrlin as a puppet, and then RJ seemed to suddenly have decided she could actually do something with her brain. If she popped her clogs as well it would be sweet

[Mr Ares]

Egwene: I think she exemplifies power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

How so?

Perrin: hopefully after his slaughter of Rolan at least Faile sees him for the monster he has become.

Monster? How so?

 

Matt's an easy character to like; he's a larrikin, hasn't met a toffy-nosed unit that he couldn't try to knock down a peg or two, would rather drink beer and play cards than do anything resembling work, and plays off the front foot if there's a fight he can't avoid.... must be an Aussie, I reckon...

But Mat is actually important to the fate of the world. Can't be an Aussie, then.

[DemandredFO]

First of all Egwene abuses her power over Nyneave when that particular power shifts, she go out of her way after that shift to assert her power over Nyneave.  I have audiobooks so don't have quotes but I do remember at one point Nyneave disappears, It might be in winters Heart and Egwene says to Elayne I understand why she did it but I still intend to make her sit up and take notice.  There are many other instances but as I said I don't have quotes.

As for Perrin being a monster, he is a Zealot, he will do ANYTHING for Faile.  His screw the world mentality is the clearest example, he only did good because he was pursueing Faile, he is a simple-minded giant.  He only has one idea at a time, he is ready to kill Rand over the Aes Sedai prisoners, I forget why but he blows up at Gaul for no reason, other than Faile and there are many others; again I don't have quotes.  He doesn't seem to realize that if he kills Rand for some inconsequential reason or allows key people to die because he is pursuing Faile, shaitan will will and Faile will die anyway.

Mr Ares, if you want all the quotes I will come back to this topic and list them

[Majsju]

First of all Egwene abuses her power over Nyneave when that particular power shifts, she go out of her way after that shift to assert her power over Nyneave.  I have audiobooks so don't have quotes but I do remember at one point Nyneave disappears, It might be in winters Heart and Egwene says to Elayne I understand why she did it but I still intend to make her sit up and take notice.  There are many other instances but as I said I don't have quotes.

 

 

How is that "abusing" her power? Nynaeve is Aes Sedai, which means that Egwene as Amyrlin is her boss. Egwene expects Nynaeve to do a job, but instead Nynaeve runs off without a word.

Imagine how a general would react if he had officers in his army do what Nynaeve did...

[xntric]

As for Perrin being a monster, he is a Zealot, he will do ANYTHING for Faile.  His screw the world mentality is the clearest example, he only did good because he was pursueing Faile, he is a simple-minded giant. 

I don't think you can lay this black and white mentality all on Perrin. Rand was willing to let the world burn because he couldn't lift a finger to kill Lanfear!

 

I take Perrin as is - a simple blacksmith. If it weren't for his ta'vereness, I don't think he would be able to lead and inspire many people.

 

I've noticed a lot of characters in WoT have this extreme mentality. Mat would ALWAYS keep his promise. Galad will ALWAYS do what he thinks is right. Loial will ALWAYS keep his oath (all Ogiers in fact).

 

 

[mb]

First of all Egwene abuses her power over Nyneave when that particular power shifts, she go out of her way after that shift to assert her power over Nyneave.  I have audiobooks so don't have quotes but I do remember at one point Nyneave disappears, It might be in winters Heart and Egwene says to Elayne I understand why she did it but I still intend to make her sit up and take notice.  There are many other instances but as I said I don't have quotes.

 

I think you might be mixing up scenes.

Winter's Heart, Nynaeve goes with Rand to Far Madding; but it is not brought up in the next Tel'aran'rhiod visit.

Maybe you should get the books in printed version; that way you could quickly find whatever scenes.

 

[Hybrid]

All right.  I'll provide my own thoughts on a number of characters:

 

Rand: Mixed feelings here.  He's awesome, but he's also becoming short-sighted and stubborn.  I can understand how Sorilea and Cadsuane want to teach him to be human again.

 

Perrin: Ugh.  He started out thinking too much, and now thinks very little.  Honestly, I don't like his obsession with Faile and I don't really like his character development.

 

Mat: Awesome, for all the reasons everyone else has posted.

 

Egwene: Mixed feelings.  While she is very strong willed and respectable, she also is way too superior about Rand and seems to have adopted the Aes Sedai attitude that the Dragon Reborn needs to be led around on a leash.

 

Elayne: Can't stand her.  Whiny, stupid, and annoying.  Hopefully will suffer a messy death in AMOL.

 

Faile: Gained some respect from me during her time in the Shaido camp.  Hopefully, that will allow her and Perrin to have a healthier relationship.

 

Moiraine: #1 Aes Sedai, IMO.  Not too stubborn to realize or too afraid to admit she's wrong, and willing to adapt.

 

Cadsuane: I honestly can't see why people dislike her.  While she does seem overbearing, she has the right to be, as she is powerful, wise, and experienced.  Also, Rand NEEDS people to tell him that he is wrong when he is wrong.  #2 Aes Sedai, IMO.

 

Gawyn: Can't stand him.  Stupid and annoying, but fortunately not whiny.  Whatever.  Hopefully will also suffer a messy death in AMOL.

 

Tuon: Awesome.  Calm, serene, and deceptively dangerous.  Perfect for Mat.

 

Taim: Totally awesome and always in control.  Will hopefully cause a lot of bloody death and epic battles in AMOL.

 

Bashere: One of my favorite minor characters.  I really, really hope he doesn't turn out to be a Darkfriend.  I also hope he doesn't die, but it's starting to look that way.

[erickm001]

In defense of Perrin

 

Perrin takes a lot of knocks on this forum. I want to put a few words in  his defense. Most of the animosty seems centered around Faile’s capture and Perrin’s reaction it.

 

By the end of Winter’s heart, Perrin is a casualty of war. Perrin has suffered more than Rand and Mat, or many in the entire series. He lost his entire family – mother, father, brother, sisters, aunts, uncles. All of them. Their deaths were hidious. His only relatives left are a few cousins. In addition to the loss, he had the guilt of not being there in time help them. A loss of this magnitude is enough to utterly overwhelm someone. But Perrin survived for two reason: Duty, to do what had to be done, and Faile.

 

In addition to the losses he suffered, he’s been engaged in bloody, savage warfare and has watched friends and enemies die horribly. He hates war and it’s savagry, yet part of him glories in it. The wolf within him comes out. This he tries to suppress. Parrin does not want to fight, to kill, to command men in battle, but he does what has to be done.

 

In KOD, Perrin is devistated by Faile’s capture. Had Mordrin showed up at that time, Perrin would have sold-out to the Dark One to get Faile back. Perrin, a decent, honest man, would have turned to the dark to get his wife back. With the loss of his wife, his devotion to duty detoriated. His only duty was to get his wife back, and if that demanded selling out a new Manetherian, or making deals with the Sanchean, he would do it.

 

This is honest characterization in my mind. Perrin is not perfect or invulnerable. None of the WOT characters are. Perrin reminds me of Ingtar, who did sell out to the Dark One, and in the end returned to the light. I’m wondering if this theme of a good man turning to the bad is something Jordan experienced himself after years of war.

 

Perrin is a good man, but so much loss, suffering and war pushed him to the brink. This happens to people in real life, too. Talk to enough Iraq war veterens and you’ll meet some.

 

In the end, it turned out well. Perrin made powerful friends with the Shanchan, and he saved his wife without selling his soul.

 

 

 

[Jethro]

It'd have been good if Perrin did sell his soul. There needs to be an evil Ta'veren

[Babalu]

First of all Egwene abuses her power over Nyneave when that particular power shifts, she go out of her way after that shift to assert her power over Nyneave.  I have audiobooks so don't have quotes but I do remember at one point Nyneave disappears, It might be in winters Heart and Egwene says to Elayne I understand why she did it but I still intend to make her sit up and take notice.  There are many other instances but as I said I don't have quotes.

 

 

How is that "abusing" her power? Nynaeve is Aes Sedai, which means that Egwene as Amyrlin is her boss. Egwene expects Nynaeve to do a job, but instead Nynaeve runs off without a word.

Imagine how a general would react if he had officers in his army do what Nynaeve did...

 

The thing about that though is that Egwene ackowledges that Nynaeve was perfectly within her rights to do what she did, but still thinks about (and seemingly looks forward to) setting her down hard. I'm not sure as to whether that would really qualify as abuse of power, but I do think that any time Egwene has power over Nynaeve she does enjoy displaying it.

[DhaiMon]

"In defense of Perrin

 

Perrin takes a lot of knocks on this forum. I want to put a few words in  his defense. Most of the animosty seems centered around Faile’s capture and Perrin’s reaction it."

"In KOD, Perrin is dev[e]stated by Faile’s capture. Had Mordrin showed up at that time, Perrin would have sold-out to the Dark One to get Faile back. Perrin, a decent, honest man, would have turned to the dark to get his wife back."

 

The two reasons I like Perrin. He's dogged honest in a classic in-your-face way. Characters that are ready to do anything for those they love are just...great...to read. And Perrin is very well and very believably executed.

 

Same reason I like Lanfear so much. Only because Therin claims that she was too power-hungry for his taste does not mean that's the whole reason. Or the true one. One party in a couple will always blame their partner to be responsible for the relationship to break up.

Not always, necessarily, but often. Not all have the ability to reflect on their own faults, sadly. To admit to them.

 

Adam and Eve. Therin and Lanfear.

 

Rigney executed that masterfully, originally. Which makes me love the "goddess of love" Lanfear all the more. Which makes me hope that she makes a great comeback in "A Memory of Light", as humiliated Cyndane.

 

However A Memory of Light turns out to be, even if the ending will disappoint me with a lame "Machine-God"* move. I respect the world he has created, the characters, it all. Deeply.

 

I liked Faust as well. Despite the ending that sucked 4$$. Might rewrite that to better suit me. Mephisto deserves his victory.

 

And I don't need any great "scientific" evaluation to support that. In my book. IMHO.

 

*=I mean the "deus ex machina" principle by this.

 

PS: For one or two seconds, I considered writing "orginally" there...*giggles*

[Majsju]

The thing about that though is that Egwene ackowledges that Nynaeve was perfectly within her rights to do what she did, but still thinks about (and seemingly looks forward to) setting her down hard. I'm not sure as to whether that would really qualify as abuse of power, but I do think that any time Egwene has power over Nynaeve she does enjoy displaying it.

 

"Enjoys it"? Funny, I can not recall any such thing from Egwene. Granted, she does not express being sad about having to pull rank, the way she has done with Elayne, but that would be a result of the history Egwene and Nynaeve shares.

 

Thing is, Egwene has to be hard on Nynaeve (and Elayne). Not only because she is their boss, and there is a war going on. But also because she can not be seen as giving them any benefits just because they were friends before she became Amyrlin. She has already crossed that line, by first raising them to Aes Sedai, and then sending them to Ebou Dar, despite such action going against all tradition.

Anything more, and Nynaeve and elayne would be looked upon as the Amyrlins pets, which would ruin what little authority they have managed to get, and undermine Egwenes quite a bit as well.

[Mr Ares]

First of all Egwene abuses her power over Nyneave when that particular power shifts

Hardly seems to be abuse of power. Nor does it seem like absolute power corrupting absolutely.

As for Perrin being a monster, he is a Zealot, he will do ANYTHING for Faile. His screw the world mentality is the clearest example

Rand was willing to let the world burn to save a woman he hated. Perrin was willing to let it burn to save a woman he loved. Perrin seems slightly more rational, based on that. Also, Perrin found a solution to his problem, as he saved Faile. Rand did not find a solution. If Moiraine hadn't sacrificed herslef, he would have died, or been captured by Lanfear. Yet you call Perrin a monster? Why not give Rand his share of the blame? Also, Faile is just about all he has left.

[Babalu]

The thing about that though is that Egwene ackowledges that Nynaeve was perfectly within her rights to do what she did, but still thinks about (and seemingly looks forward to) setting her down hard. I'm not sure as to whether that would really qualify as abuse of power, but I do think that any time Egwene has power over Nynaeve she does enjoy displaying it.

"Enjoys it"? Funny, I can not recall any such thing from Egwene. Granted, she does not express being sad about having to pull rank, the way she has done with Elayne, but that would be a result of the history Egwene and Nynaeve shares.

 

In Fires of Heaven she was quite giddy about her bullying of Nynaeve in Tel'aran'rhiod. Tiring of Nynaeve's temper is understandable, but threatening rape rather than talking about it? Not so much. Of course, that's a seperate issue, but Egwene was disturbingly happy about her disgusting treatmeant of a friend and was very much looking forward to seeing whether it had stuck with her.

[benr]

Like all of the main characters, Egwene is still very young, and has been thrust into a position of major responsibility long before she was prepared for it.  I've always thought that RJ did a masterful job with this story line, not just in the seeming inevitability of her rise to AS, but in her forced preparation for the post.  Remember, she takes the AS without any of the power and respect that normally go with the position; she has to earn and create her power base.  While her time with the Aiel gave her many qualities she previously lacked, there is no training to replace maturity.  Her treatment of Rand is frustrating; she can't seem to get beyond how she felt about the EF folks back when they were "children", but this is very realistic.  We take people we meet at face value when we don't know their past.  When we have known them all of our lives, it is very easy to fall back into the original patterns of our youth; especially with family members - and Emonds Field was a very isolated and insular community, where you knew the same people intimately all of your lives.  And isn't Egwene a little younger than the other Emonds Fielders?  She is one of my favorite characters, and her walking into the hopelessness of being under Elaida's thumb back in the Tower, knowing that this was the only way to avoid open warfare between the rebels and the tower (short of surrender), is one of my favorite developments.  I eagerly await the resolution of this line in AMoL.

[Treblkickd]

 

It's interesting to me to step back and ask the question, what are we really critiquing when we write opinions of characters?

 

The simple thing is to consider each character and ask yourself whether this is someone you would get along with and/or respect if you were to encounter them.  The other approach is to look at the way each character is written throughout the WoT and assess whether or not you can comfortably sympathize (or maybe occasionally empathize) with how that character has changed and developed, given what he or she has experienced over the course of the story.  The first approach is purely a question of style and taste, but the second strikes me as a more interesting starting point for a discussion of writing and character development.  Of course the second approach also opens things up to critiques and criticisms of RJ's writing and character development, which some folks may not be interested in.

 

Anyway, this all just popped into my head as I read a little of the back-and forth re: a few specific characters.  I think that some of those arguments involve a lot of talking past one another that could easily devolve into "Egwene is stupid!" - "No, you're stupid!" - "Well, your mom is stupid!" kinds of exchanges.