Length and weight in WOT

[Auld Manriva]

I don't know about Europe but Universities here do not preclude enjoyment of "the rustic". Pennsylvania State University for example is in an extremely rustic area. And it's one of the great University's of this country. Under different circumstances Reykjavik could be (and who knows what may be 200years from now) one of our planets great centers for knowledge and research. I don't think anyone could deny its' "rustic" qualities.

 

"Definitely NOT V'saine" seems a bit definitive for there not being anything saying where it actually was. Unless you have some source of information unavailable to anyone else, I don't think you are justified in making that claim...

 

Can it be explained to me why if the Bore is/was not in V'saine then why did the drilling of it destroy the Collam Daan and the Sharom?

 

The "thinness in the pattern" is where the drilling was done. The hole drilled has been known ever since as "The Bore". The Hundred Companions went to Shayol Ghul to seal The Bore. The Bore would therefore be at Shayol Ghul, would it not?

 

No, if memory serves RJ said the Bore is "everywhere", Shayol Ghul is just the place in this world where there is a "thinness in the pattern" that allows one to sense the Bore. (I hope I got that right)

 

Yeah, on his blog in Oct'05 he mentioned something to that effect about Balthamel and Aginor, "You might say that being trapped where they were, in a Bore that existed everywhere at once, allowed them to see the whole world."

 

So the Bore is "a hole" drilled into the Pattern to the place outside the Pattern where The DO is imprisoned. But this hole exists everywhere at once and SG is merely the place where the Bore (a hole, a physical hole) can be sensed... OK, this has gotten way too metaphysical for me.. Forget I've posted anything other than the measurement junk at the beginning...

 

I'll just wait for this convoluted and contradictory story to mercifully end.......... Someday.. soon hopefully.

 

 

 

[Majsju]

A university can of course be located in a more rustic area. One of the greatest cities on the planet however, that is quite a different story.

 

[Auld Manriva]

Maybe in Europe you can't have rustic and great city cheek by jowl.. Your experience would be some different so your imagination I concede is understandably stunted..

 

But Yeah OK... You can post whatever contrarian view you want. It's a circular argument rife with speculation anyway with no winners as there is NOTHING declaring who might be spot on.

[Thorum]

Ugh, there was a city above Shayol Ghul? Man, poor people who lived there!

 

Why? You wouldn't enjoy living on a tropical island?

[Cockta]

No, the poor people who lived at the time when the entire city exploded because of the opening of the Bore.

 

It's like you get nuked while you are cooking your noodles man.

 

Still, if Rand and co managed to seal off the bore so completely it would result in a new fool going there and being like "yes now I'ma going to get myself a new Nobel prize 'n' stuff for finding another source!"

 

But then he/she opens it and finds the worst nightmare he/she can imagine. end of story. That's how it's all going to happen, if someone doesn't actually take some measures to inform people that there is an evil there greater than anything else, except the Creator. I once again suggest making a cuendillar sign that will say that this is the location of the sealed Bore. There will be a garrison there, yes, and the garrison will protect it from any remaining darkfriends. It will be a big garrison featuring AS and and Asha'Man if they still exist, but I think they will.

 

The entire people of the entire planet will know of the DO forever, just as how humanity will rmember the second World War. It's written down, and eventually they will come up with computers to have it digital.

 

If no one can kill the Do, they will have to seal him off, permanently.

[Thorum]

So ... You would like to die in lots of agony and pain, instead of simply ceasing to exist?

[Cockta]

No, it would give me time to flee. Or at least fight and die like a warrior, and not like a sissy girl in a big explosion while at the same time being a civilian.

[Auld Manriva]

No, the poor people who lived at the time when the entire city exploded because of the opening of the Bore.

 

It's like you get nuked while you are cooking your noodles man.

 

Still, if Rand and co managed to seal off the bore so completely it would result in a new fool going there and being like "yes now I'ma going to get myself a new Nobel prize 'n' stuff for finding another source!"

 

But then he/she opens it and finds the worst nightmare he/she can imagine. end of story. That's how it's all going to happen, if someone doesn't actually take some measures to inform people that there is an evil there greater than anything else, except the Creator. I once again suggest making a cuendillar sign that will say that this is the location of the sealed Bore. There will be a garrison there, yes, and the garrison will protect it from any remaining darkfriends. It will be a big garrison featuring AS and and Asha'Man if they still exist, but I think they will.

 

The entire people of the entire planet will know of the DO forever, just as how humanity will rmember the second World War. It's written down, and eventually they will come up with computers to have it digital.

 

If no one can kill the Do, they will have to seal him off, permanently.

 

 

How many languages are there today that existed 5000 years ago? Yes, some few long dead, can be read by scholars but with how much nuance... How many tombs, containing possibly (in their time) evil beings that should never be loosed again, have been opened and looted. For example, have we seen any Hittite garrisons lately guarding some crypt of some "monster" or other person who in their time was considered the bane of humanity?*.... Historians/Archaeologists today would consider warnings found (and have) to be simply the superstitions of an unsophisticated people and just open em' like a tuna can.... (*Notwithstanding The Ark of the Covenant being guarded by one old African monk in a stone shrine in Axum, Ethiopia....or so "legend/myth/belief" claims)

 

"The Wheel of Time turns and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend becomes myth and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again." Jordon does not repeat that beginning for no reason. It's a lynchpin to his tale. Memories of real events/people change over time and distance to become entirely different from how the reality began....

 

My point being, any warning would be ignored in a relatively short period of time.

[Cockta]

That's been thought of before. Scientists are wondering how they are going to label the caverns where they are depositing nuclear waste. They know that even the symbol of radioactivity may not be used 10 000 years from now, and they made signs showing death skulls, human death skulls, plus other signs that I can't remember.

 

The same thing with SG. Make a sign out of cuendillar. It doesn't have to be very large. They could bury lots of trolloc and human bodies to make the point more clearer. It isn't that hard to think forward in time and do something that will make future people stay away from that mountain. It is almost limitless how you could warn someone.

 

Ohh, and about the languages thing. Why not write on the sign that the Dark One resides here in all languages. That way if at least one language survived, they would be able to read it. If not, they would have the sign and bones. Some records of the DO would survive in some library, I believe.

 

I also got another idea. Why not make an army of shadowspawn and humans in stone, just as how they did in China for the first Chinese emperor. That could also be of some warning. Perhaps they could make the statues in such an order that they looked like they were in one massive battle.

 

There are really dozens of possibilties of how to warn future people to not go even near Shayol Ghul.

 

I rest my case.

[ROB_88]

That's been thought of before. Scientists are wondering how they are going to label the caverns where they are depositing nuclear waste. They know that even the symbol of radioactivity may not be used 10 000 years from now, and they made signs showing death skulls, human death skulls, plus other signs that I can't remember.

 

The same thing with SG. Make a sign out of cuendillar. It doesn't have to be very large. They could bury lots of trolloc and human bodies to make the point more clearer. It isn't that hard to think forward in time and do something that will make future people stay away from that mountain. It is almost limitless how you could warn someone.

 

Ohh, and about the languages thing. Why not write on the sign that the Dark One resides here in all languages. That way if at least one language survived, they would be able to read it. If not, they would have the sign and bones. Some records of the DO would survive in some library, I believe.

 

I also got another idea. Why not make an army of shadowspawn and humans in stone, just as how they did in China for the first Chinese emperor. That could also be of some warning. Perhaps they could make the statues in such an order that they looked like they were in one massive battle.

 

There are really dozens of possibilties of how to warn future people to not go even near Shayol Ghul.

 

I rest my case.

 

no, there will be no case-resting here

 

in some cultures skulls is a good thing, maybe they would just see the warning as a way to scare them away from a great treasure.

they could even see it as being sacred ground from a civilisation long gone, and not something evil.

 

and when have hundreds of bodies ever got archeologysts go: "maybe we should not dig in this giant deposit of ancient culture and artifacts"?

 

human curiosity will always prevail over any kind of warnings.

 

plus the Bore is not something you can find in a certain place, it is something that can be opened anywhere and it is impossible to put a sign anywhere.

the only thing i can imagine would be if when sealing the Bore they would do something extra with the Power which would hurt/kill the person opening it thousands of years later, but we have no idea if that can be done or how long it would last

[Auld Manriva]

Make whatever signs and warnings you wish. There are also dozens of reasons why they would not be heeded. Misunderstanding, ignoring them etc..

 

There were probably more languages in our world 5000 years ago than today. How many yet live? None...... How many can be read? a handful and those only sparingly. To paraphrase ROB88.. Who's to say how any of it would be interpreted? And this is OUR universe with Linear Time we're talking about.. We can learn (on the rare occasion) from history and do things differently.

 

The WoT universe is "Circular Time" where everything that happens will happen again. Jordan himself spoke to that point in an interview done at the end of several of the audiobook versions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cockta]

I've never heard RJ speak about that matter. If something like that could not be prevented, I would have every DF killed. They can't hide forever. Even if they completely sealed off the DO, there would still be trollocs and myrdraal around and living entities would not be forgotten so easily, especially not their creator.

[Cillian]

Sealing of the Dark One won't end the world's troubles. There will always be something going on. RJ had ideas for novels set about 10 years after the Last Battle.

[CUBAREY]

 

 

Some records of the DO would survive in some library, I believe.

 

 

Actually that's incorect. In the AOL all knowledge of the DO had been lost.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr Ares]

I would have every DF killed.

Even if there were no more Darkfriends, when Shai'tan returns some people will join His cause.

Living entities would not be forgotten so easily, especially not their creator.

Living entities may be remembered, where they came from may be forgotten.

[Cockta]

I know that people would eventually join the DO when some dude opens up his prison, but until then peace will regin, which is far better from the current situation >.>

[Mr Ares]

I know that people would eventually join the DO when some dude opens up his prison, but until then peace will regin, which is far better from the current situation >.>

Don't need Darkfriends for wars.

[pxnsolid]

From The Big White Book pg.145

 

mile: A measure of distance equal to one thousand spans. Four miles make one league

 

hide: A unit of area for measuring land, equal to 100 paces by 100 paces.

 

span: A measure of distance equal to two paces. A thousand spans make a mile.

 

units of weight:

10 ounces = 1 pound

10 pounds = 1 stone

10 stone = 1 hundredweight

10 hundredweight = 1 ton

 

I'm 6 feet tall. A long pace for me is 3ft. (I measured it for playing golf) almost exactly. A normal pace about 2.5 feet(x2 that'd be 5). A mile therefore would be about 5,000 feet. Just under a standard mile. A WoT league would be roughly 3.8 miles then.

 

On page 146 there is a map of the WoT World with a mileage scale. The Aryth ocean is about 9000 miles wide. "Randland" itself about 3000 miles wide (Toman Head to Dragon Wall) and 2500 north/south. The "Waste" about 1500 miles wide. Shara is about the same 3000 miles wide but 6000 north/south... Seanchan is huge in comparison. Roughly 4000 at its widest but near 9000 north/south.

 

I'm not too sure about that map and its scale though. I seem to recall there are several mentions of being "a thousand leagues" from here or there in Randland but that would be near 4000 miles! Unless I'm recalling the distance references wrong.

 

when i first started reading the wheel of time, i noticed in the glossary that the above weights and distances were there, it also stated that a foot = 10 inches. with 10 ounces = 1 pound and 10 inches = 1 foot, our estimations of people heights in the series is somewhat mislead. i am 5 foot 8 inches tall, approx. 210 pounds. somewhat on the short side, and a little heavy. by the wot measurements id be 6 foot 8 336 pounds.

 

I would place Rand at around 2 meter, which would be roughly the average of Aiel in general. For the Two Rivers, given the lack of reactions to Rands height, I would guess that the average height is around 1.75-1.80. Much shorter than that, and Rand would be towering in a way the book does not support.

 

actually, Rand is stated to be quite a bit taller then Mat, whom is said to be tall for a two rivers man. Therefore hes probably quite a bit taller then your average two rivers man.

 

 

[Majsju]

 

 

actually, Rand is stated to be quite a bit taller then Mat, whom is said to be tall for a two rivers man. Therefore hes probably quite a bit taller then your average two rivers man.

 

 

 

Depends on what you mean with "quite a bit". For example, lets say that the average TR bloke is around 1.75, and Mat 1.85. A decimeter above average does make you stand out, and it would leave Mat 15-20 centimeters shorter than Rand if we use my figures (When I say "around" 2 meters, up to 2.05 works just fine), and that is in my eyes quite a bit. I myself get the feeling that people start towering over me when the difference is around 10 centimeters, and I am not exactly a short bloke.

 

[FallingBullets]

Back onto the "sealing off DO forever". No chance, simply because nobody is that smart... Foresight is what we have that they dont, and nobody ever does. And then theres the old trouble of communication, which NEVER exists. Nobody ever tells anyone anything useful.

 

just my op

 

also thanks for the distance things :) gona go make a map....

[Cockta]

If there are no DF's, there would be no sabotage and spies, and that would disatvantage the Dark very much :)

[pxnsolid]

Depends on what you mean with "quite a bit". For example, lets say that the average TR bloke is around 1.75, and Mat 1.85. A decimeter above average does make you stand out, and it would leave Mat 15-20 centimeters shorter than Rand if we use my figures (When I say "around" 2 meters, up to 2.05 works just fine), and that is in my eyes quite a bit. I myself get the feeling that people start towering over me when the difference is around 10 centimeters, and I am not exactly a short bloke.

 

im too lazy to dig through and get quotes, but i seem to remember that perrin is somewhere around half a head shorter then rand, though bigger, and mat is somewhat shorter, possibly as much as a head shorter then rand. if this is the case, then lets say we put mat at 6 feet tall. that would place perrin at a few inchs over, and rand in the 6 foot 6 or possibly a bit more range. if the general run of men in the two rivers is 5 foot 9 to 5 foot 11 that would make rand quite tall in comparison.