Why not channel?

[dashel]

I was just listening to COT and Elyane was complaining about cool bath water and wondered why none of the channelers use the power for simple things that make life easier for everyone. All this about having servants bring in water by thr bucket when she can warm it back up herself.

[Hybrid]

It's Elayne.  ;D

[Guest Dreadlord]

Ive had the same thought myself Dashel. I love it how the Black Tower rises so quickly, and the Ashaman grow in strength very quickly BECAUSE they do everything with the Power.

 

PS You read some Raymond E Feist by any chance?

[Dreadlady]

Dashel: I've wondered that myself quite often.

[Luckers]

I don't know if it helps but its stated that heating water with the power is finicky thing, and that great care has to be made to avoid turning the water into steam--and that was with a tea pot. Maybe with the amount of water in a bath 'finicky' becomes 'impossible'.

[Guest Dreadlord]

And yet the Ashaman either get the hang of warming up their food with Saidin or eating cold meals...

[Luckers]

Men are stronger in fire Dreadlord--which has a specifically functional aspect. Consider how they can draw heat into themselves but women cannot. This difference in the ability to carefully control fine manipulations of heat does not seem much different to men.

 

And, of course, you're ignoring the possibility that they simply wove fires under which their kettles of food sat.

[Guest Dreadlord]

You didnt specify any particular method earlier. If you do it the wrong way then its finicky. If you do it right, then you're ok. I doubt it requires the strength difference in fire between men and women for that kind of control. None of all that makes a difference anyway, since we've never seen the Aes Sedai do things the way the Ashaman do. Its not as if the Aes Sedai thought "Lets not heat our meals with the Power, because its finicky, and men could do it better." Could a woman simply not weave fire under the kettles? As I said, its not as if women cant do that simply because they are weaker in fire

[Luckers]

You didnt specify any particular method earlier. If you do it the wrong way then its finicky. If you do it right, then you're ok.

 

What? No, it's stated by Suian that directly heating water with flows of fire is finicky. There is no wrong way or right way about it. They could create a fire under a kettle and let it boil the normal way, though that requires they have at hand in their bathrooms great kettles and alcoves capable of taking the heat, and that they personally handle such chores--which given the radiant heat of such an endevour would probably be unpleasent.

 

Elayne's bathrooms would not have such things, but who knows maybe sisters apartments in the Tower would.

 

I doubt it requires the strength difference in fire between men and women for that kind of control.

 

Well, we've never seen men directly heat water with flows of fire, so who knows if its finicky for them. As I said, it's entirely possible they simply used the power to create fire in order to cook the old fashioned way, which any Aes Sedai could to if she had the set up and the inclination.

 

None of all that makes a difference anyway, since we've never seen the Aes Sedai do things the way the Ashaman do.

 

Actually we have--Egwene directly states that many Aes Sedai take their food in the room with the current unpleasentness in the Tower, and that that requires reheating food with the Power.

 

Indeed, if anything we've never seen Asha'men do what Aes Sedai can do.

 

Its not as if the Aes Sedai thought "Lets not heat our meals with the Power, because its finicky, and men could do it better." Could a woman simply not weave fire under the kettles? As I said, its not as if women cant do that simply because they are weaker in fire

 

That makes no sense dude... Aes Sedai have limited knowledge of what men could achieve--and besides, Aes Sedai do heat their own food. They can do that--but there is a direct states difficulty in heating water.

 

So yeah, again, i don't see how thats a good analogy. To date we've seen Aes Sedai do everything the Asha'men have, but have as yet to witness the Asha'men in return, or know how difficult it is for them.

[trakand_01]

In Elayne's defence (don't shoot me), if I remember rightly, this particular part was AFTER conception of the babes, but BEFORE the Aiel Wise One told her that channeling would hurt the babes 'no more than breathing would' - during the time that Aviendha and Birgitte wouldnt let her channel more than absolutely necessary.

 

Being elayne, and wanting to seem self-sufficient (which I believe she does, noble/royal or not), she wouldnt ask for someone ELSE to heat it up for her, and they wouldnt let her do it herself, so she bathed in it cold, and complained quietly.

[Kaznen]

Two instances of AS using the power to heat food/water.

 

1. tSR- When Perrin and Co. meet up with Alaana and Verin the AS are using the OP to heat water to a boil for tea.  One of them even say, "The water is ready."  I took that as meaning it took time to heat up and didn't flash into a boil.

 

2. KoD- When Egwene is working in the kitchens she notices that lots of servants are bringing meals up to the AS.  She then comments how the food would be cold when it gets to them and they would have to use the OP to reheat it.

 

So women can use the power to make life easier.

[mb]

I have not yet read the book yet, but I would agree that it relates to her pregnancy.

 

Though if Min interpreted her viewing (in Winter's Heart) correctly, both babies would be healthy and strong; the statement sounded unconditional.  (Got this from the Encyclopaedia site, not from reading the book.)

 

[Paviel]

None of all that makes a difference anyway, since we've never seen the Aes Sedai do things the way the Ashaman do.

 

Aes Sedai CAN'T do things the way Asha'man do. It was established back in book 2, possibly book 1 (damn my memory...) that "fish cannot teach birds to swim, nor birds teach fish to fly", and we got incontrovertible proof of that back in book 4 when Rand described how he put out the fire.

[Charlz Guybon]

Ive had the same thought myself Dashel. I love it how the Black Tower rises so quickly, and the Ashaman grow in strength very quickly BECAUSE they do everything with the Power.

 

PS You read some Raymond E Feist by any chance?

 

Don't men grow in the power in intermittent jumps while women do so gradually?

[Indiangangster]

correct me if i am wrong but isn't because that is the way female channelers are tought?

 

Men and women learn the power differently.

Women use the power carefully and delicately and men use the power forcefully and well, not so delicately.

 

Women call what men do, "forceing". Siun said the forceing is extremely bad for developing channelers (imagine a 12 year old constantly weight lifting). But so far we have see no negative effects for males, so i think this only applies to women. And i am guessing that if males were to learn the same way as women then it would have negative affects on them.

 

 

After men or women reach their full potential they can use the power anyway they want

so im guessing that elyane has not reached her full potential or is just stuck in habit, or that she is just stupid ;p

[Arath Faringal]

Actually, according to Taim there have been accidents in forcing the Asha'man.  Many are due to the taint, but others were simply from pushing the student too hard and either killing themselves or burning themselves out.

 

Aes Sedai don't force themselves simply to eliminate that possibility.  Not because it's an extremely bad way, just a dangerous one.  Look at Egwene.  When she was captured by the Seanchan they forced her training, and she developed much more quickly.

 

Really it just boils down to the attitude of the group doing the training.

 

Aes Sedai: You're not going to gain the shawl for another 20 years anyway.  No point in learning too quickly.

Asha'man: You need to be able to destroy an entire fist of trollocs yesterday ...

[Hybrid]

It's a difference in training methods, like Arath Faringal said.  The Aes Sedai are a well-developed society who have existed for hundreds of years.  While declining in numbers, they are stable and have a strong veteran pool to train the new Aes Sedai.  In addition, the Aes Sedai serve a variety of purposes.  The Asha'man are a new society developed specifically for fighting in the Last Battle.  They have to start from scratch, with only Taim and Rand as veteran channelers.  Thus, they rush to get as many Asha'man as possible for the Last Battle.  It's a gamble, really.  Those who can't learn fast enough will die, but those who can will grow in power much faster.

[Luckers]

On the subject of male/female power training and strength aquisition. Everyones sort of been right so far, but touching different aspects. Men in the Black Tower are indeed forced, and that has tragic consequences--upwards of 50 burned out or severed every week, i believe were the numbers stated in the book, but don't quote me on that. The point is that its a nasty buisness.

 

The same can be done to women, with the same results (it was done to Egwene, for instance).

 

Now from there, if trained slowly and safely, men and women's aquisition of strength are different. Women climb slowly and evenly at a constant rate over the course of between about eight and fifteen years, men however jump randomly in strength. We don't know how long it would take a man to naturally develop (without forcing), but we do know its shorter than women, probably between about three years and seven years.

 

So, men when forced jump randomly in strength, but when trained properly still jump randomly but over a longer period of time, and safely. Women when forced jump randomly in strength, but when trained properly slowly gain their strength at an even rate. Women take longer to gain their strength when trained properly than men do.

 

1. tSR- When Perrin and Co. meet up with Alaana and Verin the AS are using the OP to heat water to a boil for tea.  One of them even say, "The water is ready."  I took that as meaning it took time to heat up and didn't flash into a boil.

 

2. KoD- When Egwene is working in the kitchens she notices that lots of servants are bringing meals up to the AS.  She then comments how the food would be cold when it gets to them and they would have to use the OP to reheat it.

 

So women can use the power to make life easier.

 

Yes they can, but--at least with water--we know its tricky and require concentration and a careful touch--Moiraine states as much in New Spring whilst watching Suian heat water for Tamra's tea.

 

 

[Navaros]

I was just listening to COT and Elyane was complaining about cool bath water and wondered why none of the channelers use the power for simple things that make life easier for everyone. All this about having servants bring in water by thr bucket when she can warm it back up herself.

 

In the earlier books it's mentioned that too much channeling gets you more and more addicted to touching the Source and drawing from it, and thus increases the probability of a channeler being tempted into drawing more of the OP than he/she can handle. I can't really dig up quotes at the moment but I recall that novices and accepted are trained to continue to do chores and run errands the normal way without using the OP. I also recall a passage where Moraine was thinking how much easier something could have been done with the OP but then (probably remembering her training) became reconciled doing it without channeling. It was a talk about grabbing a teapot with a weave of Air or something like that.

[trakand_01]

I remember that. I think it is one of the reasons Rand started using the power to do mundane things like re-heat mulled wine and hurtle the glasses across the room to him - to emphasise the difference between him and them.

[jaldy3]

Elayne, does not get morning sickness because of the ability to channel, but

being pregneant she can not reliably grasp saidar.

So no hot water without buckets and servants.

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

Elayne, does not get morning sickness because of the ability to channel, but

being pregneant she can not reliably grasp saidar.

So no hot water without buckets and servants.

I doubt that's why her bath is cold.

 

She complains about it, she doesn't try to grasp the source, fail, and then complain.

 

She doesn't even try to heat the water, suggesting to me, that her inability to reliably grasp the Power is not the reason.

 

More likely, I think, is that she's worried it'll harm the babies.

[Fryn]

Nope she doesn't channel because she can not reliably grasp the source, and when she does it doesn't always do what she wants (I think the second part is right as well, been a while). The wise ones point this out to Elayne when she mentions it, and they say it is normal. She could of had avi boil her water though.

 

For all intents and purposes Elayne is useless until she has given birth to the twins. Add to that the fact that she thinks she is safe because of Min's viewing and you have a rather large mess. Which of course is why so many soldiers had to die in KoD.