How do darkfriends recognize each other?

[GrandpaG]

There must be some special filter in their eyes that allows them to recognize a fellow shadow subject.

 

When Rand is fighting in Fal Dara, Ingtar shows up and tells Rand to go away that he'll take care of this one.  I get the idea that the fade somehow recognizes Ingtar as being a darkfriend.

 

The extra large halfman "marks as his own" the Black Ajah sister (Alvarin?).  This is supposed to be an identification of some kind.  It must not be visible to non-shadow people or it would raise eyebrows.

 

For a while, I thought maybe RJ had all of the darkfriends having really dark eyes/irises.  But, that idea faded quickly.  Too many "good guys" with dark eyes.

 

Someone (maybe Ishy in the dreams?) was making fun of Rand because he couldn't see the darkfriends in his midst...as if everyone should be able to see them.

 

I remember the one secret sign that was given in Salidar when the Black sister met the Chosen, but that is not always mentioned...just that one time...and doesn't seem practical...too much use would give it away.

 

In the Last Battle, darkfriends will look just like any other humans involved in the fighting.  I doubt that they will don special darkfriend uniforms.  They haven't needed them so far.  How the heck do they do it?

???

[RAND AL THOR]

I believe that DFs communicate via certain hand gestures, as we see with Halima and Delana. It's very effective, if you ask me.

[Roxinos]

I believe RJ answered this question once in one of those weekly questions he did.

 

By and large, each cell of Darkfriends recruits people it thinks are likely candidates, though they need to do so very carefully, studying them, sounding them out slowly. Darkfriends are always on the lookout for new members, since they feel very much like an oppressed minority and want to increase their numbers. Once a move to recruit is made, though, either it succeeds or the failed candidate dies.

 

For someone seeking actively to become a Darkfriend, generally one begins by trying to attract the attention of those who already are Darkfriends. One fairly safe way is to let comments drop that indicate that you don't think the Light is all it's cracked up to be, that praying to the Creator seems useless etc. If this comes to the wrong ears, you might be in varying degrees of trouble depending on what country you are in and who it is that overhears, but you are unlikely to get worse than a flogging from the authorities and possibly only a stern warning to watch your talk from somebody in a tavern, perhaps accompanied by a clout on the ear. Although someone might decide to slip a knife into you in some rougher areas of some towns. It's only relatively safe. By the by, claiming not to believe in the Creator is a good way to avoid recruitment by the Darkfriends. After all, if there is no Creator, how can the Dark One be imprisoned, and if he isn't, then why hasn't he taken over and rewarded the faithful? One of the fastest ways to attract attention is to show yourself willing to kill to advance yourself or simply for gain. That doesn't mean that every strongarm who's willing to slit a throat to steal a purse is a Darkfriend. Some of those might well be horrified by the suggestion. This method has its drawbacks, of course, since if you attract the attention of the authorities first, you are very likely to end up with a noose around your neck or a trip to the headsman's block.

 

In short, Darkfriends can't recognize each other just by sight or any other special way. A potential Darkfriend just has to hope that a Darkfriend is listening when they subtly hint at their dark thoughts. And Darkfriends who do recognize each other only do so because they keep to their own small cells.

[Sabio]

Fain seems to be the one who can reconize DF's on sight, he makes a comment about that to himself in one of the books about being able to do that which he thinks is werid since there shouldn't be anything to distinguish a DF from a non DF he comments.

 

 

[GrandpaG]

So what's with the "marking" thing?

 

My memory isn't real strong, but I seem to recall Ishy talking about marking Matt, Perrin, and Rand when he was pretending to be Balzamon in their dreams.  Why bother putting an invisible brand on someone?  Or was that all just bluff?

 

How did the Aiel know that Kadere was a darkfriend?  I think Rand suspected Asmo and Lanfear as being in disguise and his POV didn't trust Kadere or the girl.  Maybe LTT knows what to look for and was subconciously notifying Rand that something was amiss?  I don't know.

[Hybrid]

Rand described Kadere as having dangerous eyes which never changed even when he was smiling.  Perhaps it was LTT recognizing something, or perhaps it was just Rand's common sense.  The Aiel could have known of Kadere because of Lanfear or Asmodean's presence.  Either of the two could have informed the Aiel Darkfriend(s) via dreams about Kadere.

[Roxinos]

All of that is possible, but it still doesn't change what I posted which directly answers the topic creator's question.

 

As for the "marking".

 

Yes, the Great Lord has the power to mark people. He marks his Chosen so they can be easily identified and obeyed by the Shadowspawn and other creatures. Alviarin was marked by Shadar Haran in much the same way so that every Black Ajah member will know who she is.

 

So certain marks do exist, but they don't exist for Darkfriends on the whole.

[Tyrell]

Alviarin was marked by Mesaana in much the same way so that every Black Ajah member will know who she is

 

She was marked by Shadar Haran, to show that she 'belonged' to the Dark One. Although RJ made clear that she didn't receive the Chosen Mark.

[Roxinos]

Thank you for the correction. I had forgotten about her meeting with Shadar Haran.

[algspkr]

So what's with the "marking" thing?

There have been three refrences to marks of the shadow. 

1. The chosen mark which makes shadowspawn obey the forsaken.

2. Alvairin's mark from Shadar Horan which marks her out to shadowspawn and alerts them that she is not to be harmed, but it does not convey obedience.  Mesaana knows of the mark, I do not know if she can see it, but will not kill Alvairin without permission because of it.  Regular people, including Aes Sedai, cannot see this mark.

3. Padan Fain can see darkfriends.  He says that they have something like an ash smudge on their foreheads.  This is an abiltiy unique to Padan Fain that he came to through his melding with Mordeth.

My memory isn't real strong, but I seem to recall Ishy talking about marking Matt, Perrin, and Rand when he was pretending to be Balzamon in their dreams.  Why bother putting an invisible brand on someone?  Or was that all just bluff?

Ishy was not pretending to be Balzamon, the rest of the world simply believed that Balzamon was the trolloc name for the Dark One.

 

I would guess that whole bit about marking Mat, Rand and Perrin was to scare them, although it may have been something that allowed him to detect them, this seems unlikely.

How did the Aiel know that Kadere was a darkfriend?  I think Rand suspected Asmo and Lanfear as being in disguise and his POV didn't trust Kadere or the girl.  Maybe LTT knows what to look for and was subconciously notifying Rand that something was amiss?  I don't know.

The Aiel did not know Kadere was a darkfriend, if they had they would have killed him.  Rand suspected that Asmo and Lanfear were in charge of the peddelers and suspected that the peddelers were themselves darkfriends.  I believe that Asmo confirmed this after he turned.

[Luckers]

I would guess that whole bit about marking Mat, Rand and Perrin was to scare them, although it may have been something that allowed him to detect them, this seems unlikely.

 

Moiraine herself did consider the possibility and acted to remove any seekers that may have been placed on the boys at the beginning of tGH, but frankly i consider it unlikely.

 

My guess is he was speaking in more theatrical terms--marking them in the sense of letting his people know that they belonged to him.

 

 

[bad company]

The information that comes to mind about organisation of darkfriends is that in the 11th book is that each darkfriend cell has three members who know one member of another cell so 3 turn into 9 turn into 27 and so on. The only one that knows all the cells is the coordinator that is when alvarin get's the mark and is put in charge of the network. So in many ways it's like a spy network where everyone knows enough that they can do their jobs

[Roxinos]

Badco, that's referring specifically to the way the Black Ajah runs. Not all Darkfriends.

 

Though, it isn't inconceivable that the Darkfriends run on a similar mechanism. Though, I doubt there is a coordinator like there is with the Black Ajah.

[Hybrid]

Well, we do know that specific people are in charge of specific groups via Carridin's POV, where we learn about Old Cully and his cell, for example.  However, I don't think it mentions anything about the 3 members knowing 3 members thing.  Personally, I think that that network arrangement is only for the White Tower, where people can be compelled to tell the truth through means such as the Oath Rod.  In a small town, the Darkfriends are much less worried about discovery because small towns aren't anti-Shadow bases.

[bad company]

But generally you'd think that there would be some organisation so that darkfriends would have an inkling of other darkfriends

[GrandpaG]

Darkfriends and shadowspawn can see the Dark One's mark of authority but "normal" people cannot, right?  That way they know who is in charge.  I think I have that much straight now.

 

Padan Fain is special.  That I understand.

 

The Aiel darkfriends could have used normal logic and bits of conversation to determine that Kadere was a darkfriend I guess.  This would fit the RJ quote.

 

So.

There isn't any special "darkfriend detection device" that they acquire when they give their souls to the shadow, right?  Other than being able to see the special "obey me" marks.

Do I have it now?

???

[Hybrid]

But generally you'd think that there would be some organisation so that darkfriends would have an inkling of other darkfriends

Exactly.  In small towns, I'd think all the Darkfriends in one cell would know all the other Darkfriends in that cell.  Even in cities, it would probably make more sense.  The need for secrecy is only with important Darkfriends, like those in the Tower.

[bad company]

So then with what was mentioned before about a higher council then there would be the same interconnectivity between towns and cities as well? Like the council and white tower as two seperate hubs and then the network spreads into peripherals?

[Roxinos]

Other than being able to see the special "obey me" marks.

 

Just remove that bit. If anything, only those who would have traveled to Shayol Ghul would have developed any special ability to see the Dark One's mark, if even that. We merely know Shadowspawn can see the mark.

[son omerc]

I think the special FS mark is visible only to Shadowspawn as Asmo and Lanfear are stated to have given "signals" or "signs" to Kadere that showed them to be ranked at the very top of the Darkfriend hierarchy, yet not as FS per say. Something was also said by some DF that if a beggar gave the proper "signs" a Lord would have to obey. I'm afraid I can't even recall roughly where the later was stated but the first would be in TGH (err, I mean TSR).

[Sabio]

As with the BA, it seems unlikely a Darkfriend would know alot of other darkfriends. That way if you are captured you can't tell too much about the organization.

[Hybrid]

I think the special FS mark is visible only to Shadowspawn as Asmo and Lanfear are stated to have given "signals" or "signs" to Kadere that showed them to be ranked at the very top of the Darkfriend hierarchy, yet not as FS per say. Something was also said by some DF that if a beggar gave the proper "signs" a Lord would have to obey. I'm afraid I can't even recall roughly where the later was stated but the first would be in TGH.

 

Thanks to Ideal Seek, I believe the correct chapter is LOC, Chapter 30.  I don't know whose POV it is though.

[a pale tanned lover]

It was Delana's POV from when she met Halima. and she knew who it was from the name aran'gar, which had been mentioned in her dreams not from a sign or mark

[Charlz Guybon]

But generally you'd think that there would be some organisation so that darkfriends would have an inkling of other darkfriends

Exactly.  In small towns, I'd think all the Darkfriends in one cell would know all the other Darkfriends in that cell.  Even in cities, it would probably make more sense.  The need for secrecy is only with important Darkfriends, like those in the Tower.

A city like Caemlyn's gonna have 500-1000 darkfriends. You definitely don't want the average grunt knowing to much or an investigation by the Queens Guard could potentially snap up dozens of agents at once and cripple their operation.

[Sabio]

It was Delana's POV from when she met Halima. and she knew who it was from the name aran'gar, which had been mentioned in her dreams not from a sign or mark

 

She knew the name, but Aran'gar hooked her finger or something like that as a sign Delana would know, thus showing the DF's have signs and symbols they reconize.  Anyone can say I am Aran'gar but the hand sign proved who she was.