Anyone else mad at Alanna?

[Andrew B.]

Recently rereading came to that dreadful chapter in Lord of Chaos were Alanna bonds Rand :evil: My copy of Lord of Chaos paperback is in very bad shape because I threw it at the wall. That's definitley a sign I'm way to in to a book, but who cares! I'm frickin pissed at Alanna. She is a jerk, then in Winters Heart she claims Rand is hers. I hope she gets like exiled in book 12, because I'm pissed at her. Anyone else want to express their anger at her.

[Guest cwestervelt]

If you want to do a poll you should make it objective. Yours is deliberately biased to your point of view. You left no option for people who are indifferent or who like her.

 

I, for one, am neither mad at her, nor do I dislike her. While it is true that Rand was not asked, nor did he agree to be bonding, Allana's comments in Winter's Heart that he was hers are valid and accurate. Rand could have pressed the issue and Alanna would have been obligated to release him from the bond, especially after she swore allegiance to him. By not doing so, he accepted her bonding of him and thus accepted his roll as one of her warders.

[Andrew B.]

I wanted to put a I like her option, but whenever i edited it it always took it out, if you could tell me why it keeps editing out the I like her, I would try that and see if it put it up their. Can you tell me how? If you don't know then just tell me you like her in your post. Also Rand will never be one of her warders. Even if he agrees to it Elayne, Min, and Avihenda are going to hunt her down and force her to release him. He didn't say he accepted it either, he asked her to release him and she refused.

[Guest Majsju]

It might turn out that it was a good thing Alanna bonded rand. At least it opens for the possibility. An Aes Sedai would not be able to use the One Power as a weapon to protect Rand, because of the oaths. But because of the bond, that doesn't apply to Alanna, she can do whatever she wants if she sees someone attack Rand. And none of the bad guys knows about the bond, so they wouldn't expect Alanna to have that ability.

 

Now, that's just a possibility, but then, there has to be a reason why RJ made her bond Rand.

[Andrew B.]

good point majsju, I never thought of it like that, she might help Rand win the last battle by protecting him at some vital moment. Good idea :P

[Luckers]

By not doing so, he accepted her bonding of him and thus accepted his roll as one of her warders.

 

He still doesn't know that she can do that, she only mentioned passing the bond on to another.

 

Moreover, if someone were raped in a way that they couldn't say no, because they had no time to or were in shock, would that be tacitly accepting what occured?

 

I do not hate or dislike Alanna, i concider her a rapist.

[Inara]

yes, what she did was unforgivable, and she is paying, cadsuane is giving her hell....i'm not saying thats enough...but its something.

 

imo, the main characters are incredibly lucky...none of the mains are raped/beaten/murdured/tortured...really

this series is a little tame compared to most other series i have read, a couple of lesser characters are murders and an offhand mention of tairen lords getting their way with farmers daughters...

 

though rand seems to be the whipping boy of the series, anything that happens to him, stays happened, the others get healed and get over it.

[Andrew B.]

Luckers is write, she is a rapist, and I hope she pays for it in the Last Battle when Rand dies (sorry for all you hoping that Rand is going to live, but I think he is ganna die) she is ganna like get messed up because of the death. My only regret is that Min, Elayne, and Avihenda will share this pain. I hope that in some sort of epilouge she is stripped of her warders or something, I have been waiting since Loc for her to get some sort of payback for doing what she did to rand.

[Leafburner]

I agree. I HATE Alanna. Granted, she didn't do anything Elayne didn't do to Birgitte, but Elayne's reasons for doing so were morally just. Alanna wanted a prize and power. I hope she dies.

 

Bloody Aes Sedai and their superiority complexes. I can't wait for the Asha'man to kick arse in the Last Battle.

[Kaznen]

imo' date=' the main characters are incredibly lucky...none of the mains are raped/beaten/murdured/tortured...

[/quote']

 

What do you call Rand and Min's treatment by the Aes Sedai in Loc of Choas? Rand was let out of the box, where he was bent double, to be beaten. And the box was black and in the open to saok up the sun's heat. Min was beaten too.

 

And I think Faile got thrashed a few times by Sevenna. And she was almost raped once, and that Queen was raped at least once.

 

And I think what the Finns did to Mat could be considered attempted murder.

 

And then WAY back in Eye of the World Perrin was constanly being beaten by Byar.

[Andrew B.]

leafburner there is one problem with Alanna dying, Rand will go like suicide, but I hope Egwene will give her one heck of a penance when she gets the tower back together.

[Guest cwestervelt]

I'm not saying that what Alanna did was right. What I am saying is that Rand ultimately did accept it. He has had ample time to learn that he can be released from the bond.

 

Bonding a Warder without asking isn't illegal under Tower law. It doesn't even appear to be something that is considered to be rape by the all Aes Sedai. There are even comments made in the books that indicate when an Aes Sedai asks there are few who would dare refuse and that the Warder really doesn't know what he is agreeing too.

 

It's interesting how nobody is complaining about Logain being a rapist. He has done exactly the same thing as Alanna, and not just once, but twice. The two Aes Sedai that he bonded were not asked and were bonded without any choice.

[Kaznen]

I'm not saying that what Alanna did was right. What I am saying is that Rand ultimately did accept it. He has had ample time to learn that he can be released from the bond.

 

Bonding a Warder without asking isn't illegal under Tower law. It doesn't even appear to be something that is considered to be rape by the all Aes Sedai. There are even comments made in the books that indicate when an Aes Sedai asks there are few who would dare refuse and that the Warder really doesn't know what he is agreeing too.

 

It's interesting how nobody is complaining about Logain being a rapist. He has done exactly the same thing as Alanna' date=' and not just once, but twice. The two Aes Sedai that he bonded were not asked and were bonded without any choice.[/quote']

 

Those Aes Sedai had the choice of being killed or bonded. I think those AS are more pis*** that the Asha'man aren't afraid of them.

[Leafburner]

"leafburner there is one problem with Alanna dying, Rand will go like suicide, but I hope Egwene will give her one heck of a penance when she gets the tower back together." - Andrew B.

 

I disagree. Rand is the Dragon. He'll do what he needs to do, regardless of the pain he feels, just like he has done throughout the entire series.

 

Alanna better bite the big one.

[Andrew B.]

well now that the matter of Alanna dying and Rand going crazy is cleared up, then I'm all for Alanna bitting the big one. Oh and Cwestervelt Logain's choice was let Aes Sedai gentle me, or bond against will. We've learned that the power is considered greater then life itself by a channeler, that is sort of a no brainer.

[Guest cwestervelt]

I'm not saying that what Alanna did was right. What I am saying is that Rand ultimately did accept it. He has had ample time to learn that he can be released from the bond.

 

Bonding a Warder without asking isn't illegal under Tower law. It doesn't even appear to be something that is considered to be rape by the all Aes Sedai. There are even comments made in the books that indicate when an Aes Sedai asks there are few who would dare refuse and that the Warder really doesn't know what he is agreeing too.

 

It's interesting how nobody is complaining about Logain being a rapist. He has done exactly the same thing as Alanna' date=' and not just once, but twice. The two Aes Sedai that he bonded were not asked and were bonded without any choice.[/quote']

 

Those Aes Sedai had the choice of being killed or bonded. I think those AS are more pis*** that the Asha'man aren't afraid of them.

 

Maybe you need to re-read "The Extra Bit".

 

Logain issued orders that none of the Aes Sedai were to be harmed during their capture so there was no threat of death. When Tovienne was bonded by Logain, she wasn't given any choice. Logain had her shielded and restrained with Saidin and simply rode up and bonded her. She had less ability to defend herself than Rand did when Alanna bonded him. There is nothing to indicate that Logain's other Aes Sedai was given any choice either.

 

You're trying to justify Logain's actions while condemming Alanna's.

 

1) Rand was not bound or sheilded, Tovienne was. Rand could have defended himself sooner, he was just too slow. Tovienne could defend herself at all.

2) Logain was mentally stable and in full control of both his emotions and the situation. Alanna was still a mental wreck because of the recent loss of one of her Warders and wasn't incontrol of either her emotions or the situation.

3) Rand could go totally insane because of the Taint. Alanna willingly accepted the risk of that affecting her. Logain also could go totally insane because of the Taint. Tovienne wasn't asked if she wanted to take on that risk.

 

Sure, Rand wasn't a threat to Alanna at the time she bonded him. He was just an exceptionally powerful male channeller who might go totally insane at any moment. By bonding him, Alanna at least stood a chance of controlling him and preventing him from harming anyone should that happen. She didn't know until afterwards that Rand was too strong for her to control him with the bond. Tovienne wasn't a threat to anyone when she was bonded. Because of the strength difference, Logain can essentially force her to do whatever he wants. Logain's actions were less excusable and no more justifiable than Alanna's.

 

To be honest, it took serious guts on Alanna's part to bond him. Who knows what would happen to her should Rand get taken by insanity. She sure didn't. As it turned out, that bond is very one sided. Alanna hasn't gotten much benefit as Rand refuses to act as her Warder and generally treats her like dirt. In return, the bond may have stabilized his mental decline for all we know. It most likely did help Rand through the treatment he received at the hands of Elaida's people. Not to mention that a Warder's ability to shake off more wounds than non-bonded people probably helped him survive when Fain stabbed him with the Shadar Logoth dagger.

[Guest cwestervelt]

well now that the matter of Alanna dying and Rand going crazy is cleared up' date=' then I'm all for Alanna bitting the big one. Oh and Cwestervelt Logain's choice was let Aes Sedai gentle me, or bond against will. We've learned that the power is considered greater then life itself by a channeler, that is sort of a no brainer.[/quote']

 

The Aes Sedai were already sheilded and restrained before they were bonded. They weren't of any threat to Logain or any other Asha'man. Especially not when they where outnumbered something like 4 or 5 to one.

[Kaznen]

The Tower AS committed an unprovoked Act of War. And it wasn't Logain's orders that said don't harm the AS it was Rand's. I think Logain would have killed them, in a heartbeat. He was also under the impression that it was by Rand's orders to bond them.

 

What could the BT have down without bonding them. Turn them into POWs that could escape (didn't hear about what happened to the Aea Sedais' warders), hold them as hostages, or open a gateway and push them through?

 

Rand said he didn't want to turn the BT into a prison. The AM guarding the AS wouldn't be able to practice with the OP turning themsleves into killing machines.

[Guest cwestervelt]

The Tower AS committed an unprovoked Act of War. And it wasn't Logain's orders that said don't harm the AS it was Rand's. I think Logain would have killed them' date=' in a heartbeat. He was also under the impression that it was by Rand's orders to bond them.

 

What could the BT have down without bonding them. Turn them into POWs that could escape (didn't hear about what happened to the gregarious African or Asian perissodactyl mammal' warders), hold them as hostages, or open a gateway and push them through?

 

Rand said he didn't want to turn the BT into a prison. The AM guarding the AS wouldn't be able to practice with the OP turning themsleves into killing machines.[/quote']

 

Rand's orders were to stay away from the Aes Sedai and not provoke them. He was always quite clear that he if the Aes Sedai started it, he wasn't going to hold them back.

 

The Path of Daggers Chapter 26: The Extra Bit

... Behind her, shouts. And one voice, roaring through all the cacophony. The tall man's voice.

 

"Take them alive, by order of the Dragon Reborn! Harm an Aes Sedai, and you'll answer to me!"

 

While the order to take them alive may have come from the Dragon Reborn, it is doubtful. Rand didn't know that the Black Tower was about to be attacked, so he couldn't have issued the order. It is more likely Logain's extension to the order to not attack first. Since Rand regularly made it quite clear that he wasn't going to tell the Asha'man they couldn't protect themselves, the second part, "Harm an Aes Sedai, and you'll answer to me!" definitely originated with Logain.

[Kaznen]

Ya, the order coming from Rand is doubtful. Taim was doing a lot of things and making a lot of rules saying "the Lord Dragon said so." And Logain being the only AM in the field would be the one to keep the Dedicated and Soldiers in line, because he thought the order to not harm AS came from Rand. It's the whole "Let the Lord of Chaos Rule" thing.

 

If an obvious war party was destroyed the world would probably agree with the BT, I know Elyane wouldn't be to keen to know that a TV army is operating in Andor, but to not only defeat them but humiliate and subjugate them is something different.

[Krista Borba]

I think Alanna was very wrong in bonding Rand without permission, but A.S do what they do for their own reasons, she is selfish and self centered. Alanna has been getting payback, Rand does treat her like "the red-headed stepchild". Alanna didn't have time to make Rand subserviaent to her so don't worry if she dies he won't commit suicide, also now he has bonded his "too be wives" so Alanna has to deal with that x 3, and she doesn't get any of the luvin herself :lol: , and if Avienda gets a hold of her the light help her. :twisted:

[Andrew B.]

lol :D On the whole Logain bonding Aes Sedai I'm going to have to say that he was just as wrong as Alanna bonding Rand. He thought they gentled me so I'll get payback, which he shouldn't have done. On the rest of the BT I think that is Taims work to stir up Chaos, which it is already doing.

[Great Lord of the Dark]

i was frickin pissed at alanna because she and verin wanted to control him. I think rand should have killed her. :D :D :D :D :D

[Avalanchemike]

i was frickin pissed at alanna because she and verin wanted to control him. I think rand should have killed her. :D :D :D :D :D

And driven himself insane? Ingenious. He tries to kill himself because she dies and because of the taint. "Thats showing 'em Rand. 'Atta boy. OH SWEET JESUS THE PAIN IS IN MY SOCKS." *DIE*

 

I mean seriously think about it for a moment :/

 

lol :D  On the whole Logain bonding Aes Sedai I'm going to have to say that he was just as wrong as Alanna bonding Rand.  He thought they gentled me so I'll get payback, which he shouldn't have done. On the rest of the BT I think that is Taims work to stir up Chaos, which it is already doing.

 

That wasn't his thinking at all. There is a bit of Compulsion in the Warder Bond, it is easier to control 50 odd angry Aes Sedai by bonding them rather than shielding them the whole time.

Ya, the order coming from Rand is doubtful.  Taim was doing a lot of things and making a lot of rules saying "the Lord Dragon said so."  And Logain being the only AM in the field would be the one to keep the Dedicated and Soldiers in line, because he thought the order to not harm AS came from Rand.  It's the whole "Let the Lord of Chaos Rule" thing.

 

If an obvious war party was destroyed the world would probably agree with the BT, I know Elyane wouldn't be to keen to know that a TV army is operating in Andor, but to not only defeat them but humiliate and subjugate them is something different.

 

I was under the impression it did come from Rand? He has that whole "If-another-woman-dies-in-my-name-I-am-going-to-make-a-new-Dragonmount" Emo thoughts going on. :)

 

If the war party was destroyed nothing would happen with the rest of the nations. They all have their own problems to worry about. With the Prophet, Shaido, and various Rebels and Dragonsworn all over the world not to mention the Seanchan I think everyone has their hands full. They will shake their fists and console the White Tower but that is the most that would happen.

 

The world isn't going to ally themselves with the Black Tower. If you have the choice (And you do) you can chose between men that are going to go insane and possibly create a new Breaking, or woman would could possibly prevent it, you are going with the women.

[DemandredFO]

Alanna was wrong to bond rand but as someone said she still in bad shape over losing Owen.  Oogain also has some excuse because he could've killed, bonded or imprisoned them.  If he had killed them and it ever got back to Egwene, I think, no matter why they were killed, she would've joined forces with Eliada to go and destroy the Black Tower.  I mean see still is pissed at rand for holding sisters when she KNOWS they attacked him, she would settle for nothing less than IMMEDIATE and TOTAL DESTRUCTION if they had been killed.  As for imprisonment, that would take up alot of resources that could be otherwise engaged.  Bonding them was the only choice left and alls far in love and war.  For most Aes Sedai, this is war to the knife.