Swirls & Goldeneyes

[Matrim DeLaneous]

Skimming through KOD's again and noted something unusual in ch 12 "A Manufactory". 

 

We know and have seen a great deal of chatter about the Taveren (sp) swirls / images seen by Rand, Perrin, and Matt when they think of or hear about each other.  Links & connections to each other. 

 

However, in the ch referenced above, when Perrin is riding with the Seanchan through their stronghold, he tells them he knows another man (Elyas) who has golden eyes.  The two Seanchan with him then exhange a long / knowing look.  Perrin then asks himself if there is a Seanchan prophecy regarding 2 men with Golden Eyes.  At this moment, Perrin sees swirls which he then "stamps out". 

 

Seemed unusual and different than the colors / images / swirls between Rand, Perrin & Matt. 

[Guest Dreadlord]

Thats interesting, could you get a page reference?

[wvlr]

Skimming through KOD's again and noted something unusual in ch 12 "A Manufactory". 

 

Could someone please post an exact quote on this!    I don't have that book with me and would would like to know exactly what it said.    My memory thought that it had been another thought about Rand that has spured the "swirls" but maybe I misread/remembered.  Damn - I'm not even sure which one of my friends borrowed that book.

[Luckers]

Here is the quote.

 

Light, he hoped there wasn't anything in the prophecies about two men with yellow eyes. Those colours whirled and he dashed them.

 

[KoD: A Manufactory - 303]

 

I'd assume the colours happened because he was thinking about himself. Like, specifically in the third person considering his own nature. Sure Elyas was in there, but so was Perrin--he even placed special emphasis on including both of them in the 'two men'.

 

Still it's an interesting little moment, since as far as we know neither Rand nor Mat were doing anything specific at the moment to induce the colours onto Perrin. Good catch.

[wvlr]

Here is the quote.

 

Thanks Luckers.

 

Damn - I can't believe that this was not caught before!    What in the heck is going on there?    Was this a mistake on RJs part?    Is Elias Tavern also?    Are the "Swirls" expanding to encompas more than just the 3 Tavern?

 

 

[Matrim DeLaneous]

I'd assume the colours happened because he was thinking about himself. Like, specifically in the third person...

 

I did consider that, but am inclined to think otherwise.  I Don't have specific references, but I think the Matt POV chapters include sections where he considers himself / himself in prophecy, (i.e. daughter of the nine moons)and doesn't experience any "swirls" or "colors".

 

I think a little research of recent chapters written from the POV of any of the 3 Taveren would include instances where they consider themselves and/or their place in the prophesies. 

 

Not 100% sure, but confident. 

[Kaznen]

Whenever Mat and Perrin think about the Prof. the pattern takes it as thinking of Rand.  So they get a quick peak at what Rand is doing.

[Luckers]

I did consider that, but am inclined to think otherwise.  I Don't have specific references, but I think the Matt POV chapters include sections where he considers himself / himself in prophecy, (i.e. daughter of the nine moons)and doesn't experience any "swirls" or "colors".

 

But he didn't consider himself in the objective third person, as seems to be the method of inducing the colours, and as Perrin did here. He thinks of himself as a person as a whole--not just his position in the prophecies, or something that refers to him, he thinks of himself as a seperate whole being.

 

I can't think of any other reason for it to have happened, and it does fit the method... but yeah, it's definately wierd.

 

 

[Alderthal]

The prophecies of the dragon

 

When Perrin talks to Masema, he does mention that he has to stamp down on those swirls because Masema is always going on about the Dragon this and the dragon that.

[Luckers]

Mmm, thats a good point, but usually the colours require a more specific realisation of the person. This side reference seems too limited.

 

Still, i'd probably say thats the strongest explanation we have so far.

[Vemynal]

either i can think that the cause for the colors are expanding, or that because the pattern is trying to bring the ta'vern together its causing the colors at random times now, showing the need of the pattern.

 

or the other is that when pattern thought of the prophecies a bit of his mind wandered to think about rand.

[RAND AL THOR]

The prophecies are centered on Rand. I'm sure that that is the reason.

 

Perrin thinks of himself all the time subconsciously. When he thinks, "What will I do today?" -that is thinking about him. So is every decision he takes.

 

So I don't think we can say that in this particular instance the colours came since he was thinking of himself. If that were the case, then the colours should be present almost continuously.

[Matrim DeLaneous]

Here is the quote.

 

Light, he hoped there wasn't anything in the prophecies about two men with yellow eyes. Those colours whirled and he dashed them.

 

[KoD: A Manufactory - 303]

 

Not sure that Randland prophesies would have a different effect than Seanchan prophesies, and not to question anyone's accuracy, but does the text say "...anything in [/i]the[/i]prophesies..." or "anything in [/i]their[/i]propesies..."?  Something's making me think Perrin was referring to Seanchan prophesies that may include 2 with golden eyes. 

 

 

[Matrim DeLaneous]

Based on the reply above, I'm obviously still working through some of the mechanics of the forum & text.  I beg pardon!    ::)

[Vemynal]

modify= edit button

 

and previewing is your friend^^

[Luckers]

Perrin thinks of himself all the time subconsciously. When he thinks, "What will I do today?" -that is thinking about him. So is every decision he takes.

 

The point of my suggestion was that in that particular moment he thinks of himself in the objective third person. He doesn't think 'what will i do today' he thinks of himself as a figure, a whole, a being seperate to himself.

 

 

[Matrim DeLaneous]

Light, he hoped there wasn't anything in the prophecies about two men with yellow eyes. Those colours whirled and he dashed them.

 

[KoD: A Manufactory - 303]

 

Not to question anyone's accuracy, but is it the prophecies or is it their prophesies?

 

 

[Luckers]

It's the prophecies. The Karetheon Cycle.