The Lord of Chaos

[Gholam]

I'm gonna get yelled at for this.  I think that there are actually three things the "Lord of Chaos" could actually be.  I do know that it is a message from the DO.  It could be that he is reffering to himself; telling his minions to be evil.  It could also mean to let Rand rule for the moment while they plot.  Honestly, the Dragon Reborn is bound to cause chaos.  My last idea is that he's telling them to create chaos.  Like when the one Forsaken (i forget which) delivered the letter in Arad Doman.  (Sorry, i forget the details.)  But, i believe she said something about the DO telling her to create chaos.

[Roxinos]

Last time I heard this brought up, I believe it was generally accepted that the "Lord of Chaos" refers to Rand. Rand's mere existence causes chaos in the world, and the Dark One wanted to let Rand do all that harm.

[Leopoled Boothe]

I think the Lord of Chaos is a metaphor rather than and actual person.  The prophecies say that in order to win TG that the DR must unite the nations thus bringing order to the world.  Thus, order in necessary for The Light to win and what is the opposite of order?  Chaos.  So I think that the DO was commanding his followers to keep the nations of the world at each others throats.  Also remember that just before this phrase was first uttered Demandred was thinking about how he deserved to be Nei'blis so perhaps the DO was saying that the one who caused the most chaos would be named Nei'blis thus the one who caused the most chaos would be Lord over the other Forsaken and thus the Lord of Chaos would rule.

 

I think the answer can most likely be found in the events that occur in "Lord Of Chaos".  Remember that volume 6 was bookended with Demandred being summoned to the DO and given the order "Let the Lord of Chaos rule" and with Demandred returning to the DO and saying "I have done well have I not?" and the DO seemingly agreeing.  Therefore, we can reasonably assume that Demandread had something do with the events that unfolded in LOC.  The question is which events was he responsible for and how did they cause chaos?  To this I don't have the answer but I think it will be a good point for discussion.

[Alderthal]

Hmm, I'll have to re-read the book and brush up on where each Forsaken is at, but I thought the DO was laughing in scorn or mocking Demandred. Did he appear past LoC?

[Ganth]

I don't think the DO was mocking Demandred at all. Rand, the Dragon Reborn, is referred to as the Lord of Chaos because, obviously, all the chaos he brings to the world. The DO wants the Lord of Chaos to rule because Rand unintentionally brings more ruin on the world than all of the Forsaken and DF's combined.

 

Granted, the DO knows at some point Rand is going to have to be brought down, and I'm sure he was pleased Demandred assisted in the chaos (I'm assuming he had a hand with the Shaido somehow)

[Alderthal]

Hmm, I think you're right. Curious, I checked out some of the Prophecies that're written at the beginning and end of each of the books, and here's something I found:-

 

The unstained tower breaks and bends knee to the forgotten sign.

The seas rage, and stormclouds gather unseen.

Beyond the horizon, hidden fifes swell, and serpents nestle in the bosom.

What was exalted is cast down; what was cast down is raised up. Order

burns to clear his path.

—The Prophecies of the Dragon

translation by Jeorad Manyard

Governor of the Province of Andor for

the High King, Artur Paendrag Tanreall

 

So yeah, guess the LoC is Rand.

[Leopoled Boothe]

Granted, the DO knows at some point Rand is going to have to be brought down, and I'm sure he was pleased Demandred assisted in the chaos (I'm assuming he had a hand with the Shaido somehow)

 

I've gotta disagree with you there, I think the Shaido was all Granedal and Sammael's project.  I think Demandred is more tied into Taim and the Black Tower.  Turning a bunch of men who could channel the OP and were destined to go mad loose on the world certainly would cause Chaos.  I'm assuming that Rand got his info on how to cleanse Saiden from the Finns and so he already had his plan for The Cleansing at the time he declared the amnesty.  But Demandred didn't know that.  I can't remember for sure, but wasn't Demandred in charge of the forces of The Shadow at The Cleasnsing?  It would make since that he would have a special interest in stopping the cleansing since it would throw a wrench into his plan.

 

[Fryn]

Actually Rand got the idea of how to clense Saidin from the wound in his chest, and not from the finns. He noticed that the DO's evil and the evil of Shadar Logoth fight each other. So he guessed that syphoning it by SL would help seperate the taint from Saidin as those 2 forces fought each other (or they were pulled apart/together - I didn't get the whole clensing completely).

 

The way a few of the forsaken use the title LoC though, it makes it sound like Rand in any case.

[Majsju]

It might be a good idea to recall what the focus of LOC is. The last 1/3 or so focuses on the kidnapping of Rand, an event Mesaana should have had a fair amount of influence over. Mesaana who traditionally has worked together with Demandred.

 

Kidnapping Rand seems like a quite odd way to let him rule...

 

It would however be quite a good way to increase chaos throughout the world.

[RAND AL THOR]

It might be a good idea to recall what the focus of LOC is. The last 1/3 or so focuses on the kidnapping of Rand, an event Mesaana should have had a fair amount of influence over. Mesaana who traditionally has worked together with Demandred.

 

Kidnapping Rand seems like a quite odd way to let him rule...

 

It would however be quite a good way to increase chaos throughout the world.

 

Yes, yes, YES!

 

My take is that the order was to increase chaos in the world, and has little to do with Rand at all, but I brought that up around 3 months back and most people here disagreed so I dropped it. That thread got over 60 replies, I believe. I won't put forth any reasons here, but you know my view on it now.  :D

[Ganth]

Would it be plausible to say the entire thing was a Forsaken plan? Mesaana aided in the kidnap and Demandred assisted in the Asha'man rescue. The result: Rand will never trust Aes Sedai and he'll trust Taim's DF Asha'man.

 

It may seem a stretch, but so many people bash the Forsaken's blunders. I just want to give them some credit  :-X

[Majsju]

Would it be plausible to say the entire thing was a Forsaken plan? Mesaana aided in the kidnap and Demandred assisted in the Asha'man rescue. The result: Rand will never trust Aes Sedai and he'll trust Taim's DF Asha'man.

 

It may seem a stretch, but so many people bash the Forsaken's blunders. I just want to give them some credit  :-X

 

No, it is not plausible. It takes time to make a plan such as the one to kidnap Rand, so it would have been set in motion beofre there were enough Asha'man around to be able to free Rand.

[Mr Ares]

Wasn't Demandred in charge of the forces of The Shadow at The Cleasnsing?

No. Nobody was. They acted like a bunch of indiviuals, rather than a co-ordinated force. That was part of the problem.

[Cockta]

Which is good, because it let Rand do his work.

[RAND AL THOR]

Which is good, because it let Rand do his work.

 

Indeed, and it also made them look like a bunch of useless idiots. I can't believe that Demandred actually gatewayed INTO Shadar Logoth, knowing that it is the focus of whatever Rand is doing. Could it get any more brainless?

[Cockta]

Maybe he didn't know that Rand was planning to destroy SL. Anyways, even if he didn't know, gating into Shadar Logoth is a very stupid idea. Mashadar is dead, right? And SL is definately destroyed. I mean, there is a big hole where SL stood.

[RAND AL THOR]

Maybe he didn't know that Rand was planning to destroy SL. Anyways, even if he didn't know, gating into Shadar Logoth is a very stupid idea. Mashadar is dead, right? And SL is definately destroyed. I mean, there is a big hole where SL stood.

 

Demandred seemed to know exactly what Rand's plan was. He thinks:

 

He had reasoned out what al'Thor's plan had to be as soon as he realized

where the access key was. A brilliant scheme, he did not mind admitting, however insanely dangerous. Lews Therin had always been a brilliant planner, too, if not so brilliant as everyone made out. Not nearly as brilliant as Demandred himself.

 

 

So he 'reasoned out the plan' even before coming to the scene-and yet the gateways into SL knowing that Rand is using the most powerful sa'angreal in the world!!!!

[Cockta]

Ok, then Demandred is seriously stuoid to do something like that!!!!

[Sabio]

They went cuz Mordin told them to go, and if they didn't like was stated, if the taint is gone the male forsaken would no longer need the DO's special portection.  And why not go, they most likely figured no one could stop them and Rand would be helpless.  They didn't count on Aes Sedai linked to Ashaman and Cas's male source detecting angrael.

[Gholam]

I have changed my mind.  I believe the Lord of Chaos is a metaphor.  At the end of KOD (i think,) when the Red Ajah approached Mazrim Taim to bond some Asha'man, he says "Sure, (or something like that) you know the old saying, 'Let the Lord of Chaos rule.'"  This statement had nothing to do with Rand, and it is probable that the bonding would cause chaos.

[RAND AL THOR]

I have changed my mind.  I believe the Lord of Chaos is a metaphor. 

 

Welcome aboard.  ;D

 

Now, we just need a few more people to block the patches on our sinking ship to keep it afloat till AMOL releases.

[Roxinos]

I have changed my mind.  I believe the Lord of Chaos is a metaphor.  At the end of KOD (i think,) when the Red Ajah approached Mazrim Taim to bond some Asha'man, he says "Sure, (or something like that) you know the old saying, 'Let the Lord of Chaos rule.'"  This statement had nothing to do with Rand, and it is probable that the bonding would cause chaos.

 

He may or may not have been referring to Rand in that situation. However, he said it himself, "...you know the old saying..."

 

It's just that. An old saying. It is taken from the Prophecies of the Dragon. The line itself goes:

 

The lions sing and the hills take flight.

The moon by day, and the sun by night.

Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.

Let the Lord of Chaos rule.

 

It's not particularly out of the ordinary for someone who has the phrase on his mind to repeat it to other people. Especially when the phrase itself may ordinarily be used by people to mean disorder. It's like how we personify death.

[Hybrid]

I have changed my mind.  I believe the Lord of Chaos is a metaphor. 

 

Welcome aboard.  ;D

 

Now, we just need a few more people to block the patches on our sinking ship to keep it afloat till AMOL releases.

 

I agree with this theory as well.

 

An old saying. It is taken from the Prophecies of the Dragon. The line itself goes:

 

The lions sing and the hills take flight.

The moon by day, and the sun by night.

Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.

Let the Lord of Chaos rule.

 

 

Actually, the line in question is part of a 4th age children's game.  See the opening prophecy/history in LOC.  It is likely that it is a new saying, perhaps even taken from this incident, and Taim was just being his usual arrogant self and throwing his Dark orders in the face of AS.

[Roxinos]

I knew it didn't sound right that it was part of the Prophecies. Thanks for clearing it up. I don't actually have the book with me.

 

It is likely that it is a new saying, perhaps even taken from this incident, and Taim was just being his usual arrogant self and throwing his Dark orders in the face of AS.

 

That is a possibility. But unlikely, I think. No way to know for sure, though. So I'll just leave it be.

[Hybrid]

I suppose "likely" isn't the best word for the situation.  I was only going on Pevara's thought that she'd never heard any old saying like it.  Of course, Pevara may be AS but she's surely not the expert in old sayings of Randland.  On the other hand, I got the feeling that Taim was mocking the AS with that quote, since all his cronies started laughing.