New Army of the Dark?

[algspkr]

I have been thinking about what Elayne did to the leaders of her opposition in KoD and have been thinking that those people might be enticed to join the shadow bringing their armies with them.

[Ashaman Kovan]

I really don't think they're enough of a threat or considered powerful enough for the shadow to even bother trying to recruit them.

[Majsju]

We have seen quite a number of more or less foolish reasons for joining the shadow, but this would take the price. "We do not like the queen, lets all become evil..."

 

Not going to happen.

[Ashaman Kovan]

*cough*TheShadowDoesn'tNeedThem*cough* ;D

[schizm]

I don't think so. Without a doubt the Dark one will have his army, which will have Trollocs, Fades, and other creatures from the blight. Not to mention Dark friends will rise up as well. So all in all, the dark will have plenty of forces to bring to the battle.

[DemandredFO]

There is the possibility that one of Elayne's retainers may be a darkfriend and cause some mischief but I doubt anything major will happen.  Elanya, Nayon and Arimilla might turn but the Dark won't waste time on them.  Duhara is most likely black but one of the most damaging things done to Andor was done by Rand and Elayne.  She is a very powerful channeler and because she is pregnant she cannot channel with any certainty.

[Hybrid]

There is the possibility that one of Elayne's retainers may be a darkfriend and cause some mischief but I doubt anything major will happen.  Elanya, Nayon and Arimilla might turn but the Dark won't waste time on them.  Duhara is most likely black but one of the most damaging things done to Andor was done by Rand and Elayne.  She is a very powerful channeler and because she is pregnant she cannot channel with any certainty.

 

I think you mean Elenia, Naean, and Arymilla.  ;D

[Kaznen]

I think the end of KoD showed their would be darkfriend armies, like in the Trolloc Wars and War of Power.

 

The attacking army could clearly see that Tuon was not with Mat and had a way out so why did they keep their suicide run on the Band.

 

Because Mat was sitting on his horse in a green coat and his tradmark black hat with his distinctive black scarf around his neck holding his unique spear.  And every darkfriend in Randland has his and Perrin's description and have mark them for death.

 

The Seanchan commander could not of kept all 10000 men together unless all 10000 knew that Mat was wanted dead.  If their was a bounty on his head like Tuon's Thom or Julien or one of his other sources would have learned it by that point, but a secret darkfriend order, that's a bit tricky. 

[Hybrid]

I don't know about that, Kaznen.  Darkfriends may be more prolific than we think, but a 10000 man army of Darkfriends?  Unlikely, especially since the Darkfriends operate in small cells, not large armies.  Remember, Mat pulled this trick before, with the "protect the Lord Dragon" stunt against Couladin in tFoH.  More likely, the army could not believe that Tuon was not with Mat and his army, especially given the presence of the Deathwatch Guards.  Plus, battles are pretty chaotic, and they wouldn't have the ability to thoroughly search for Tuon, because of the large number of Band soldiers, plus they couldn't compare notes in the middle of a charge anyways.

[Mr Ares]

The Seanchan commander could not of kept all 10000 men together unless all 10000 knew that Mat was wanted dead.

Not true. All that is necessary would be a belief on the part of those soldiers that they should keep going until ordered to stop. An order that never came, or only came too late for anyone to get out. Some cultures are different to others. If their culture values obedience over survival....

[wconn1979]

The Seanchan commander could not of kept all 10000 men together unless all 10000 knew that Mat was wanted dead.

Not true. All that is necessary would be a belief on the part of those soldiers that they should keep going until ordered to stop. An order that never came, or only came too late for anyone to get out. Some cultures are different to others. If their culture values obedience over survival....

 

 

/agree

[algspkr]

I think the end of KoD showed their would be darkfriend armies, like in the Trolloc Wars and War of Power.

 

The attacking army could clearly see that Tuon was not with Mat and had a way out so why did they keep their suicide run on the Band.

 

Because Mat was sitting on his horse in a green coat and his tradmark black hat with his distinctive black scarf around his neck holding his unique spear.  And every darkfriend in Randland has his and Perrin's description and have mark them for death.

 

The Seanchan commander could not of kept all 10000 men together unless all 10000 knew that Mat was wanted dead.  If their was a bounty on his head like Tuon's Thom or Julien or one of his other sources would have learned it by that point, but a secret darkfriend order, that's a bit tricky. 

I've had this theory shot down too, and I doubt that we will ever see an answer as to weather it is correct or not.

The Seanchan commander could not of kept all 10000 men together unless all 10000 knew that Mat was wanted dead.

Not true. All that is necessary would be a belief on the part of those soldiers that they should keep going until ordered to stop. An order that never came, or only came too late for anyone to get out. Some cultures are different to others. If their culture values obedience over survival....

The only Seanchan in the attack was Elbar the rest was composed of men from Altarra, Amasadea, and Tarabon.  I doubt that they valued obedience over survival, at least to the Seanchan or any nation, but obedience to the Shadow comes before all else with Darkfriends.

[Mr Ares]

The only Seanchan in the attack was Elbar the rest was composed of men from Altarra, Amasadea, and Tarabon.

You have a quote to support that? I know there were others there (others with the promise of a not inconsiderable pile of gold), but was the army exclusively non-Seanchan?

[Hybrid]

The only Seanchan in the attack was Elbar the rest was composed of men from Altarra, Amasadea, and Tarabon.

You have a quote to support that? I know there were others there (others with the promise of a not inconsiderable pile of gold), but was the army exclusively non-Seanchan?

 

I'm pretty sure Suroth ordered Elbar to take only non-Seanchan so no one could connect him to her.

[Kaznen]

It was mainly an army of sell swords.  Not the most dedicated soldier when there is no reward coming.

[Majsju]

The soldiers where from Altara, tarabon and Amadacia, ie nations conquered by the Seanchan. It is not their place to question what a Seanchan officer tells them.

 

As for seeing that Tuon was not there, only those in the first lines could see that, and with thousands of soldiers pressing from behind, turning around is not really that much of an option. Better keep pushing and hope for the best, as they would also have seen how few soldiers Mat actually had there.

[algspkr]

The soldiers where from Altara, tarabon and Amadacia, ie nations conquered by the Seanchan. It is not their place to question what a Seanchan officer tells them.

 

As for seeing that Tuon was not there, only those in the first lines could see that, and with thousands of soldiers pressing from behind, turning around is not really that much of an option. Better keep pushing and hope for the best, as they would also have seen how few soldiers Mat actually had there.

I thought they were facing an army of equal size.  It's been awhille, but I could have sworn that Mat had 20,000 and he split his army in two one group being attacked and one group coming up behind the attackers.

[Majsju]

Talmanes brought three banners of horse and four thousand crossbowmen. I am not sure how much a banner is, but a total of 5-6 thousand soldiers. So Elbar would have had nearly twice as many soldiers.

[Hybrid]

The soldiers where from Altara, tarabon and Amadacia, ie nations conquered by the Seanchan. It is not their place to question what a Seanchan officer tells them.

 

As for seeing that Tuon was not there, only those in the first lines could see that, and with thousands of soldiers pressing from behind, turning around is not really that much of an option. Better keep pushing and hope for the best, as they would also have seen how few soldiers Mat actually had there.

I thought they were facing an army of equal size.  It's been awhille, but I could have sworn that Mat had 20,000 and he split his army in two one group being attacked and one group coming up behind the attackers.

 

He did split them, but he had much less.  Your confusion is probably due to the Seanchan's speculation on Mat's forces.  They had no idea about his capabilities though.  Mat is very good at logistics, plus he has new and improved crossbows which reload quicker.  So it was easy for them to overestimate his forces.  In any case, even if they were equal size and Mat split his soldiers, Elbar would have thought that he outnumbered him 2-1.  Also, Elbar had cavalry, while Mat had crossbowmen - remember all the infantry bias that most generals have (and those are for pikes, which are good against cavalry).