Aes Sedai: Or why we have no function

[Kaznen]

I was re-reading tDR when Rand left the camp for Tear.  Mo told Min that a King coming to see the Am could be left waiting weeks but ANY women could get an audience that day.  Why are they so biased?

 

And keep in mind the symbolism for the White Tower, in a literary sense, is that of an Ivory Tower which has been used to show people disconnected from the world and not really understanding how the world works.

[Lemno]

I was re-reading tDR when Rand left the camp for Tear.  Mo told Min that a King coming to see the Am could be left waiting weeks but ANY women could get an audience that day.  Why are they so biased?

 

And keep in mind the symbolism for the White Tower, in a literary sense, is that of an Ivory Tower which has been used to show people disconnected from the world and not really understanding how the world works.

I always thought Jordan was showing us that a world where the women had the power was just as unfair as a world based on sole male rule.

 

The balance that must arise between ashaman and female channelers would then symbolise the best way is togetherness.

[42Bonzo88]

    I agree on some of the things on this thread about how the Aes Sedai could be helping the world they live in alot more, but you need to look at some other things as well.

 

1. Aes Sedai have to stay together now, for thier own fault of not leaving the tower more often and disspelling the rumours that the common man has of them. If they set up thier libraries and make the highways, the common people would be so scared of them, that they would not use what the Aes Sedai made or they would kill them for lack of understanding.

 

2. Once they disspelled the rumours, they could start going from town to town and set up places, but now you need to take everything from the white tower and spread it to the new places. It's possible, but may take some time.

 

3. The main thing that needs to happen before any of my suggestions or others on this thread can occur is the changing of attitude of the Aes Sedai themselves. When they 'discover' that they are supposed to be Servants to All like they were in the Age of Legends instead of thinking themselves as Royalty, then the commoners will see by the Aes Sedai's help, acts of kindness, universities, hospitals etc. that they are not as bad as they feared and people will send thier children (male and female) to learn and the towers will grow. The Attitude needs to change first, and sorry to say, that most of the Aes Sedai now living would have to die out before the changes could occur. It would be almost impossible for some of them now to 'change thier spots'.

[Snowy Dawn]

First of all, I suspect that the Aes Sedai were more active in the world prior to, and to some extent during, the Trolloc Wars. The original missions of the Ajah were set up during that period. The destruction of the Ten Nations during the Trolloc wars would have to have set back any tendency towards a more active role for Aes Sedai outside Tar Valon. Hawkwing's hostility towards the White Tower, as influenced by Ishamael, also kept the sisters confined to Tar Valon during a time when they might otherwise have begun to spread out into the rest of the Westlands.

 

So far as the roles of the Ajah's go

 

Brown -> Gathering knowledge.... in Tar Valon

 

The Browns are meant, I think, to be analogous to the monastic orders that preserved knowledge during the Middle Ages. Much of what they gather is the sort of thing that gratifies curiosity, but does not have a use given the limited technology and social/cultural development of the post Hundred Wars period. Consider the discussion that Verin and Nesune get into about snakes in <i>Crossroads of Twilight</i>, and Cadsuane's disgust at what she sees as useless nonsense. She simply lacks the curiosity about the natural world that the two Browns---and modern day herptologists---have.

 

Yellow -> Gathering healing skills... in Tar Valon.

 

They, of course, besides gathering healing skills, also offer healing in Tar Valon. I have the vague impression, tho', that one would normally go to the tower for this service, but might they also be active elsewhere in Tar Valon, or perhaps in the surrounding villages? Anyone have any textural evidence on this point?

 

Observe that the Aes Sedai that is sent out by Elaida to work with Gawyn and the Younglings---once the siege of Tar Valon is under way---is Yellow Ajah. Besides healing for the Younglings, Narwenwin also is available to the inhabitants of the village, yes? Or maybe not: maybe she is just there for the Gawyn and troops and the rest, including the mayor, can depend on the Village wisdom, if there is one, so far as she is concerned.

 

To the extent that Yellows are active as Aes Sedai advisors to monarchs (and other nobles?) they would be available for healing in the royal courts. (This raises the following possibility, viz. that besides initiates of the Tower and warders, Aes Sedai healing is primarily confined to royalty and other nobility and perhaps wealthy merchants, and that they leave all others to the town and village Wisdoms, Wise Women, and the like.)

 

The Green -> Preparing for war... in Tar Valon

 

IIRC, they prepare only for combat against Dreadlords, and only that even for what they are to do in the Last Battle, I think. Such was their role in the Trolloc Wars, according to the few references in the series. One would think that they would be of particular use against the more dangerous Shadowspawn---in particular Myrddraal, Draghkar or Darkhounds---in the Borderlands, esp. given the difficulty borderland soldiers have in fighting such critters, but that does not seem to be part of the purpose of their Ajah. There would not be the problem about acceptance of Aes Sedai in such a role in the borderlands, one would think, given the general respect for the White Tower in that region.

 

As for the White, by ``logic'', I think is meant something broader than what is usually meant nowadays, viz., the theory of valid reasoning---in particular mathematical reasoning, but rather more like logic, metaphysics, and theoretical science (including Mathematics)---tho' they clearly have made little development of Physics. I fancy Kin Tovere of Cairhien, the would-be astronomer, knows more about optics than anyone in the White Ajah---or the Brown Ajah, for that matter.

 

One may recall two discussions: the one overheard by Alviarin in the White Ajah quarters about the spoilage of food in which some basic ideas about statistics figure, <i>Knife of Dreams</i>, Ch. 2, ``Embers Falling in High Grass'', page 64, and the one about ``dissimulated structures'' that Egwene hears on one of her visits to Leane in the cells (<i>Knife of Dreams</i>, Ch. 24, ``Honey in the Tea'', pages 530--531 (page refs to the hardcover edition). But one may also recall Alviarin's observation about the contents of the Ninth Depository of the Tower library, which contains books on the various forms of Arithmetic, and which, because it is little visited, she uses as her path upstairs into the main part of the Library after having opened a gateway in a basement of the library (<i>Crossroads of Twilight</i>, Ch. 21, ``A Mark'', pages 502--503 in the hardcover edition). That depository may not be the only one for books and manuscripts on mathematics, but it does suggest something about what the White sisters do (or, perhaps better, did, unless, of course, those books are relics of the Age of Legends, or rather, copies thereof).

 

Alviarin wonders why there are so many forms of Arithmetic and books on the same---what need more than one form?---but I suspect that those books contain more mathematics than just what we would understand as Arithmetic, but rather contain in addition anything not considered to be Geometry or Trigonometry. Maybe not group theory or real or complex analysis, but maybe boolean algebra, different number systems, some number theory, at least the basics of the theory of equations of different degree, complex numbers, e.g. the square root of -1 and such.

[Snowy Dawn]

Oops! The Yellow Sister who comes to the village of Dorlan to give Gawyn his instructions from Elaida is named ``Narenwin'' not ``Narwenwin''. See, if you can stand in looking in <i>Crossroads of Twilight</i> :-), pages 56--60 in the hardcover edition (this is in the Prologue, ``Glimmers of the Pattern'').

[bjclinton]

In most places Morraine went, she had to hide her face within the cloak because people would recognize the ageless look on an Aes Sedai.  How could people recognize that look if Aes Sedai were never seen and never seen openly? 

 

For as many people as there are in this story that recognizes the ageless face for what it is, there are a lot more that do not. It is remarked on many occasions in the WoT when someone is actually traveled enough and engrosses enough in the events of the world to recognize that face. So much so, that in the right circumstances, depending on our POV, the person is surprised that they recognize it. 

 

I this Aes Sedai are hated so much because they manipulate people- the manipulate Countries, Rulers and anyone else they come into contact with to serve their own purpose and they use their power as a station of fear to get what they want. The most obnoxious example of this is when Cadsuane was manipulating the ruler of Far Madding....I know why it was necessary, but its still a good example of my point. That type of 'move' that she pulled is pulled by practically every AS in this book that we see at some point. They use bully-tactics. As a result, they have earned their deserved reputation.

 

As far as why they haven't done all of the things that the original poster brought up, I personally believe it was a specific intention of RJ to keep Randland at a status quo during this age. A new age comes with change- significant change. I suspect that the next age will be nearly unrecognizable to someone from the 3rd age. Roads, traveling gates, hospitals, universities, "modern" technologies, etc. Those things wouldn't be profound if the AS has started putting them in place years ago.

[wconn1979]

The tower should have been sending the novices and accepted that they turn away to villages and towns to act as agents for the tower.  They could be a part of the eyes and ears as well as acting in a recruiting capacity.  The ones that could channel well enough and had enough skill with healing should have been set up as village wisdoms they could still hide thier use of the OP behind herbs and such and still been out in the world helping.

[Snowy Dawn]

``The ones that could channel well enough and had enough skill with healing should have been set up as village wisdoms they could still hide thier use of the OP behind herbs and such and still been out in the world helping.''

 

This is what the Kin did, tho' not officially on behalf of the White Tower.

[wconn1979]

``The ones that could channel well enough and had enough skill with healing should have been set up as village wisdoms they could still hide thier use of the OP behind herbs and such and still been out in the world helping.''

 

This is what the Kin did, tho' not officially on behalf of the White Tower.

 

I know what the Kin did.  I was saying that the tower should have been smart enough to do this on its own.

[DemandredFO]

Snowy Dawn; Verin is a brown and can discuss inane details as much other browns but she is far from ordinary.

[Snowy Dawn]

``I know what the Kin did.  I was saying that the tower should have been smart enough to do this on its ows.''

 

Sorry to have offered an unneeded---and perhaps presumptuous---reminder. 

[CUBAREY]

In suggesting what course of action Aides Sadie should or should not be taking in the Third Age it several facts need to be remembered. Even today some Aides Sadie reach the age of 250. The Third Age is slightly over three thousand years. The Age began with a cataclyism whose effects did not end until the last Male Aides Sadie was stilled or killed. The Trollic Wars occured approximately 850 to 1150 years into the Age. Their were powerful False Dragons periodicly during the entire Age. Arthur Hawkwing and the war that followed his death was a third cataclyismic event in the Third Age occuring around the year 2000-2130. Thus for the oldest Aides Sadie Hawkwing and the aftermath occured within four Aides Sadie generations. Is it so difficult to see why the Aides Sadie believed they had to stay strong and centralized? Yes the Aides Sadie have acted foolishly in many things but from their propective it probably seemed to be the lesser of two evils.

[Snowy Dawn]

``Snowy Dawn; Verin is a brown and can discuss inane details as much other browns but she is far from ordinary.''

 

Agreed, tho' I wonder if Nesune is all that ordinary either :-) In any case if you look at the passage in <i>Crossroads of Twilight</i>, you will see that Nesune starts the discussion because Verin wrote a book on the Fauna of the Drowned Lands and the question is whether the snake skin that Lord Algarin told Nesune came from a snake that lived in the Drowned Lands actually did so, and Nesune turns to Verin as one who is an expert in the matter.

[Snowy Dawn]

Omitted the reference, sorry. See <i>Crossroads of Twilight</i>, Ch. 23, ``Ornaments'', pages 531--532 in the hardcover edition.