Question on Ta'veren

[Na Fianna]

Hey all. First post here so sorry if its been mentioned before. I rememeber reading from a previous post a while back that Ta'veren arent borne Ta'veren but rather become Ta'veren when the pattern are in need for them. Does that mean that when there is no need for them they are no longer Ta'veren. For instance does Mat lose all his luck etc.

[Guest Toad]

Wouldn't that tweak Mat off!

 

I would think that once you become something, you remain it.  Though I have nothing to back it up...

[Mr Ares]

You are ta'veren only as long as the Pattern needs you to be ta'veren. If it has no need, the existence of a ta'veren would be needlessly disruptive. Also, Mat's luck is not necessarily to do with his being ta'veren.

[Guest Dreadlord]

I seem to remember Mats luck only being the way it is after he recovered from the Shadar Logoth dagger situation, after the Aes Sedai Healed him. I always thought his luck had something to do with that.

 

But yes I think when the Pattern is done with Rand, Mat and Perrin they will no longer be Ta'veren.

 

Anyone think there are more than three Ta'veren?

[Mr Ares]

I seem to remember Mats luck only being the way it is after he recovered from the Shadar Logoth dagger situation, after the Aes Sedai Healed him. I always thought his luck had something to do with that.

That's the theory, more or less (Mat's luck manifests after he gets the dagger, but before he is Healed - dicing with Shienaran's in TGH and Hurin no longer willing to gamble with him on  the way to TV in TDR.

[Kaznen]

I don't know if his luck is part of his Ta'vereness or not.  It could be his little Ta'veren gift the pattern gave him to see him through to the end, like Rand's Channeling and Perrin's Wolfbrotherness.  But after TG they aren't going to lose the powers they gain, just the ability to effect the pattern.

 

Mat's battle knowledge was hard earned.  So I don't count that as his Ta'veren gift.

[Mr Ares]

Rand's channeling and Perrin's wolfbrotherhood are not related to them being ta'veren. There are no "ta'veren gifts".

[DemandredFO]

Luck his soul, is part of a Mat prophecy so no his luck and battle knowledge will not disappear.  It is entirely possible that Mat and possibly Perrin will not even lose Ta'veren.  There is world to rebuild and for Mat mayhaps an empire to reconquer, Mat may need Ta'veren.  If Rand survives he will no longer be Ta'veren he's earned a century or so of rest and obscurity.

[Asmo]

Well, it is likely that people like Rand are important to the Pattern up until the end of their lives. But Rand's channeling has nothing to do with being ta'veren - it is because of who he was. Perrin being a Wolfbrother was probably an ability that he has because he is ta'veren (he had like a one-in-a-million chance of being a Wolfbrother, and because he was ta'veren it was fulfilled), but it is not directly connected to his status as ta'veren and will not be lost if he stops being ta'veren. Mat's luck has probably more to do with the dagger of Shadar Logoth than ta'veren - he even notes the two as separate things.

[Na Fianna]

Where does he mention that his luck is tied to the dagger.

I always assumed it was a ta'vern thing. Finding holes in peoples defense, rolling 6's the whole time, randomly walking into the right pub or whatever. You get the idea.

Same deal with perrin. people dead set againist doing something then he tell him to do it and they do. Does that happen now after Tarmon Gaidon

[Asmo]

Where does he mention that his luck is tied to the dagger.

I always assumed it was a ta'vern thing. Finding holes in peoples defense, rolling 6's the whole time, randomly walking into the right pub or whatever. You get the idea.

Same deal with perrin. people dead set againist doing something then he tell him to do it and they do. Does that happen now after Tarmon Gaidon

 

Nowhere, but it's clearly mentioned to be separate from his ta'veren properties.

[Mr Ares]

Perrin being a Wolfbrother is because of who he is.

Corrected for you. Pretty sure it has to do with Perrin having a wolfbrother soul, like Rand has a channeling soul.

[Majsju]

Perrin being a Wolfbrother is because of who he is.

Corrected for you. Pretty sure it has to do with Perrin having a wolfbrother soul, like Rand has a channeling soul.

 

Indeed.

There is however quite the possibility that Perrin being ta'veren was what made him meet Elyas, so he could have a guide when he started to discover what he was. Otherwise, he might have ended up like the poor sod he meets in TDR.