Most unfair fight?

[Igrift]

I've been doing lots of outside work latley and I've had a chance to listem to almost the whole serise so far on my Ipod, (which by the way is a totally different experience for those who haven't listen to the audio tracks I reccoment it!) and I've realize there's a lot of fights or battles in within the books that are just way to one-sided.   You just know right away who's going to win, usually what main characters are fighting (cause you know they won't be killed off, RJ is a little predictable in that sense) 

For me the most unfair fight would have to be when The girls (Nynaeve , Elayne) were escaping to the River Serpant after leaving Lucas show.  Its a mini battle, but still.  You got Elyane, Nynaeve, Brigitte, and 13 Shinaren soilders from the Hunt for the horn.  Then you got Uno the super solider, Thom and Julian, and to top it all off theres Galad for the cleanup crew!  Its like I almost feel sorry for all those riotors attacking them, if they only knew they were attacking some of the best fighters in the books.

 

 

 

[Guest Dreadlord]

Another brilliant example is when Rand is fighting the renegade Ashaman in whichever town you cant channel in.

 

Rand lands one punch on one of them, and when he readied the second punch it said "As he was about to deliver the killing blow..." The second punch would have been the killer, AND RAND KNEW IT! I love bits like that.

 

There is another bit when Rand is thinking to himself about how much of a weapon channelers can be, that any non-channeler cant understand just how much of a weapon, and Rand acknowledged to himself that he could kill 1000 men like so many moths with the Power. That bit was one of my favorite bits of the series ever, as well as that bit when the second punch was the killer.

[RAND AL THOR]

Typical fantasy.

 

Try reading A Song of Fire and Ice.

[Avery]

Rand Al Thor, I miss the point. Do you think there is more realistic combat in A Song of Fire and Ice? I'm honestly asking, I've never read it but I've only see positive reviews so I very well may give it a go. Is there a Power-equivalent in that series? (I guess "magic" is the appropriate term, but I hate that word.)

[Guest Dreadlord]

Iv just started reading a Game of Thrones, which is book one of Song of Fire and Ice, and I am finding it a little bit hard to keep track of the characters, as so far Iv probably read about eight chapters and had about six PoV characters, each of which are related to several non-PoV people, and so far I think its a bit confusing. BUT there are several things that sound good, even so early, so I think I might stick at it.

 

Has anyone read any Raymond E Feist? There are a lot of good battle scenes in that, both magic and non-magic. Many great characters as well

[Guest Toad]

Song of Ice and Fire is a great series.  Definitely more complex than WoT.  Though it has been several years since reading book 3.  Though I'm not sure where Rand Al Thor's comparison comes in...

[Mr Ares]

Rand Al Thor, I miss the point. Do you think there is more realistic combat in A Song of Fire and Ice? I'm honestly asking, I've never read it but I've only see positive reviews so I very well may give it a go. Is there a Power-equivalent in that series? (I guess "magic" is the appropriate term, but I hate that word.)

There is magic in ASoIaF, but it is largely kept "off-screen" - no huge magic battles going on, and no OP-style magic system. Gritty realism is a big part of ASoIaF, both in fighting and in other things.

 

I am finding it a little bit hard to keep track of the characters

You should definitely stick with it. You'll probably find the characters and their relations with each other easier to remember as time goes by.

 

Has anyone read any Raymond E Feist? There are a lot of good battle scenes in that, both magic and non-magic. Many great characters as well

Not a patch on Martin or Jordan.

 

I've realized there's a lot of fights or battles in within the books that are just way to one-sided.

How one sided should they be? one sided battles happen in life, as well. Also, the example you give is not a particularly good one - it's a fairly minor skirmish, and not unreasonable for it to turn out how it did. Probably a better example would be In KoD, where 100,000 trollocs were held at bay by a vastly outnumbered force of channelers. I could also point out the fight at the end of PoD, against the Seanchan, where Rand is both outnumbered and losing before he diecides to unleash his superweapon (callandor), with the result that both sides retreat claiming defeat. Are there any other battles that particularly bother you?

 

Song of Ice and Fire is a great series. Definitely more complex than WoT. Though it has been several years since reading book 3. Though I'm not sure where Rand Al Thor's comparison comes in...

I would't say ASoIaF is "definitely" more complex than WoT (how do you measure complexity, in this case?). Presumably the comparison comes in with these books being "standard fantasy" in this regard while ASoIaF isn't. However, it does feature some one-sided fights. Not always for the same side, though.

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

Not a patch on Martin or Jordan.

UNQUOTE

 

I can understand why you would say that, but it boils down to oppinion. I do like Wheel of Time more than the Riftwar and all them, but they are still very good. And I hear there are still more books set with the same characters being released, which is good. Feist writes a colorful story there, with magnificent characters, and dragons!

 

Now, heres one fight people arent going to bring up on this thread, so I will. Mat vs. Gawyn and Galad. Mat should have had his balls handed to him in that fight, yet he didnt. An unfair fight that turned out the other way.

[trakand_01]

Before I comment I think we should all take a breath and remember that we are all entitled to our own (differing) opinions  ;) ;D

 

With Mat, Gawyn and Galad, that particular scene as far as I'm concerned was set up purely to show us what Mat is capable of.

 

He had been out of it for a while - he started out as a cheeky mischievous country bumpkin with a smile for the girls, then he got greedy and paid a severe price for it. he was a nearly-unconscious burden for a while, and now he's recovering.

 

In the interim RJ had introduced Gawyn and Galad - two attractive, strong and powerful men/boys who had been trained in weaponry from an early age - remember until Tigraine disappeared it's most likely Galad was trained to become First Knight of the Sword one day, until Taringail married Morgase and Galad came along.

 

So we see Mat, recuperating, barely able to walk but ho! what's this - he's f***ing amazing with a quarter staff. In fact so good that he can knock out two of the most skilled young fighters we've met.

 

Wow... surely he's one to watch...?

 

 

[RAND AL THOR]

'Magic' is in the background in ASoFaI.

 

My earlier post was actually a response to the following:

 

and I've realize there's a lot of fights or battles in within the books that are just way to one-sided.   You just know right away who's going to win, usually what main characters are fighting (cause you know they won't be killed off, RJ is a little predictable in that sense) 

 

Consider the following scene:

 

Rand is severed. He is in Shayol Ghul and is surrounded by all the Forsaken. All Black Ajah members are also present and the DO is free and is looking upon him.

 

In such a case, if RJ wrote what happens next, Rand would somehow escape (I have no idea how he could possibly do that but I'm sure RJ would manage it).

 

If GRRM wrote the next bit, there would be a bang, a flash of light, and poof-Rand dead.

 

That is the difference.

GRRM doesn't save his characters with magic etc... when all odds are against them. I love that aspect of his work.

 

I shall say no more to prevent spoilers. I would highly advise Dreadlord to continue reading. If you managed to complete WOT without getting confused then you most certainly will be able to manage ASoFaI.

 

Furthermore, I would not say that it is more complex than WoT. WoT is by far the most complex series I have ever read. ASoFaI has many sub-plots but not nearly as many as WoT.

 

There are some scenes actually where you expect someone to win and the exact opposite happens. ;)

 

[Mr Ares]

That is the difference.

GRRM doesn't save his characters with magic etc... when all odds are against them. I love that aspect of his work.

He may save them with conventonal force, though. Occasionally he might not save them at all, but only occasionally. Like RJ, he kills people when it serves the story.

[Guest Toad]

GRRM kills people almost constantly - especially if you're a Stark.

 

Where I think RJ falls into the more traditional, where almost everyone (at least on the 'good' side) lives - no matter how unfair the fight.

[Igrift]

I know its a little late for this now, as we are on the last book in the series.  But I've always been a fan of unpredictability, and really so far in WoT the fate of everyone is of no surprise.  Do you really think Perrin was going to die in the battle at Two rivers? Or Mat in basicall any fight he's ever in?  Those dice roll in his head for our benifit to create suspense..but its not there for me because I know he will live.  RJ set that prescedent throughout the books as he's never killed off any main characters.  Not that I want to see anyone die, its just that it takes away from most battles or fight sequences.

In my opinion.

[bRANDan]

Most unfair fight:

 

Gaul and the Whitecloaks, hands down.

 

Every chance I get I give this book a plug, ACACIA- David Anthony Durham, I see it as a combination of RJ's and Martin's writing style. The fights in that book are not predictable at all. I actually prefer Acacia to both WoT and ASoIaF.

 

PS- I'll continue to plug this book until I've found at least one other person who has read it.

[Majsju]

PS- I'll continue to plug this book until I've found at least one other person who has read it.

 

I recommend doing that on the General Discussion board. Chances at reeling in eventual readers are quite greater there.

[Asmo]

What exactly constitutes an "unfair" fight? A fight during which one of the combatants is heavily outclassed in the Power, in strength or whatever they are fighting with, or fighting on roughly even terms with a greater number of opponents? I can't exactly bring myself to accurately define "unfair" here. Unfair was Rand facing Rahvin with an angreal, but Rahvin balanced that advantage by going into the Unseen World, which Rand didn't know. And then Nynaeve and Moghedien came in and made the fight unfair again. Unfair was Rand getting rescued by Ishamael and aided in his fight against Sammael, but wasn't it unfair already that Sammael had forced Rand to fight under these odds with the traps in Illian and all? It was unfair that Rand had a sa'angreal against the Seanchan army, but didn't they outnumber him one-to-ten-thousand? Wasn't it unfair that Alivia had an angreal against Cyndane, but didn't Cyndane's superior knowledge and skill balance it out? Unfair, Moiraine against Be'lal, but the element of surprise and Balefire were enough to turn it around.

 

Really, I view all fights as more or less balanced. Truly unfair fights would end very quickly, especially with the Power.

[Guest Dreadlord]

Lol, I dont think any of those fights you mentioned are unfair as there are enough factors to balance them. Its what seems to be an unfair fight at the start of it, remember your reactions when you first read those scenes. I remember when Rahvin turned the air to water that seemed unfair, unfair meaning one-sided, and when Rahvin tried changing Rand to an animal as well.

 

Unfair would be Rand against an army of ten thousand non-channelers. Rand could kill them all before they got within catapult range

[Mr Ares]

GRRM kills people almost constantly - especially if you're a Stark.

No he doesn't. The Starks aren't even averaging one death per book.

[Guest Toad]

GRRM kills people almost constantly - especially if you're a Stark.

No he doesn't. The Starks aren't even averaging one death per book.

 

**Spoilers Below**

 

Death and debilitating injuries.  Been a while since I read them, but the father is killed in the first one, the son who took over is killed in the second or third (and mangled besides), another son paralyzed, and the mom (Catelyn) had her throat slit.  That's reaching Kennedy-esque proportions.

 

In comparison to other authors, GRRM has a constant flow of death and/or destruction for major protagonists.

[RAND AL THOR]

Toad, I request you to delete or modify your last post. It is not nice to post such intense spoilers. It is very unfair on both the writer and all future readers.

 

If you wish to post info that may be a spoiler, it is wise to place a large spoiler warning first. ;)

[Guest Toad]

Toad, I request you to delete or modify your last post. It is not nice to post such intense spoilers. It is very unfair on both the writer and all future readers.

 

If you wish to post info that may be a spoiler, it is wise to place a large spoiler warning first. ;)

 

Noted.  Just was thinking that since its been over 5 years since book 3 came out, no big deal.  But since these aren't the Song of Ice and Fire forums, I see your point.

[RAND AL THOR]

Thank You. ;D

 

If I had read your post before I read the books, I would come hunting you down for revenge!

 

It doesn't really matter when a book came out. People don't grab books the second they are released (unless exceptionally popular). I had only read ASoFaI in  the last 2 months.

[Ashaman Kovan]

Yeah I think the most unfair fights in the series are Rand VS. Ummmmm anyone who Can't channel.

[Guest Dreadlord]

Mat vs Couladin is unfair because we didnt see it!