Lord of Chaos - Morgase

[Paranoid Android]

Hey guys, maybe I'm in the wrong forum to discuss this.  If so, my apologies to the mods, feel free to move it.  I've been a fan from the very beginning of the series (at the very least since about 1993-94), and it's struck me so often how things that Robert Jordan brought in sometime during book 1 or 2 would suddenly become very important later in the series.  His propensity to view the series in its entirety and herald the future completely amazed me.

 

now, I'm probalby sure this has been discussed before and if it has, I'll probably get a lot of rolled eyes and "didn't you read thread x", but something that has occurred to me for some time is about the characterisation of a certain character named Paitr.  I mentioned this to my friends a while back and they were quite amazed and didn't even see the connection.

 

In "Lord of Chaos", Morgase meets a character named Paitr who is willing to help her get free from the clutches of the Whitecloaks (this was before the Seanchean invasion).  However, this plan never comes to fruition because sometime shortly before it gets put into motion, Morgase is summoned to the Lord Captain's chambers and on the way sees Paitr and his family being hung as Darkfriend's.  Naturally here the assumption is that the Lord Captain Commander was aware of the escape plot and did away with the conspirators.

 

But I'm not so sure this is the case.  I think it's just bad timing.  After re-reading the series (this was quite a few years ago), on the road to Caemlyn (in Eye of the World), Mat and Rand run into a particularly slimy Darkfriend named Paitr who tries to tell them of the joys of being a servant of the Dark Lord. 

 

Considering this is a site dedicated to the WoT, I'm guessing this has been mentioned before, but since I'm new, I just wanted to again state my appreciation at how detailed Jordan's world was, that such an innocuous event as meeting a random Darkfriend on the Road to Caemlyn in book 1 could have such a profound effect on the storyline of book 6, when Paitr and his family are rightfully hung as being Darkfriends - though tragically, Morgase thinks it was just a ploy by the Children of the Light to let it be known that her thoughts of escape had been made known.

 

Sorry for the length of this post.  As I mentioned at the start, I'm not sure if this is the exact right place to put the post, but it seemed as good a section as any.  In any case, though I have known this for at least a couple of years now, it still amazes me the scope and depth of which Jordan had looked into the future to make such a simple act in book 1 so seriously affect actions in Book 6 - just another reason why I am a big big fan of the Wheel of Time.

 

All the best, and sorry for the long post.  Thanks to any and all who have read this far.

 

~ PA

[Llewin]

You know.......

 

Hmmm :) cool...

 

Ok, and now, coherently. I think that the way the narrative reads, it is pretty clear that the hanging of Paitr and Morgase's happening to be there for it was a coincidence, Nial has no idea why she suddenly caves in...

 

HOWEVER... I never did make that possible connection between Paitr the wimpy darkfriend and Paitr the wimpy rescue-boy...but it makes a lot of sense...

[Bob T Dwarf]

I don't recall the original setup in EoTW, but I don't doubt it could be a good catch.

 

Jordan was good at setting a trap... letting us wander in, look around, wander about, and discount the whole thing, and then much later snap the door closed on us.

 

 

[Elwinn Taron]

I'm pretty sure that RJ wanted us to make the connection.  Just in case we missed the point, he added Paitr's badly healed broken nose that Rand gave him.  What I always wondered, and I'm sure we'll never know, is:  What were the Darkfriends planning once Paitr and his uncle helped Morgase and company escape the Whitecloaks?

[Cockta]

One could never know, but this is an interesting find, Paranoid Android. I never thought of that.

[Corbett]

Paraniod Android, just in case you hadn't figured it out this is exactly the place to put all of your wacky theories connections and thoughts on the entire WoT world.

[cloglord]

I'll concur with Elwinn's musings about what Paitr's plan was for after he rescued Morgase.  Since we know that he's a badguy, was he acting under orders, or was he just following old orders from Ravhin to try and capture her if found?

 

Along the lines of the original post, I'd add Ronde Macura and Floran Gelb to the short list of pivotal yet emminently forgetable characters that end up popping up again to cause trouble.  The encyclopedia WoT is a great place to go browsing to find these little reappearances of characters that you thought you'd forgot.

[Luckers]

I'd also point out that its around the same time that Mili Skane reapeared, so clearly RJ was channeling the early books.

[Razor]

I recognized Paitr and Mili when they reappeared, but for the life of me cannot recall about Ronde Macura and Floran Gelb.  Can someone refresh me about these 2.

[Razor]

Was Gelb the assin that tried to get Tom and Matt on th eboat from Tar Valon and later sent by Rahavin after Elayne?

 

Macura dosed Nynave with fork root.  but when did she reappear?

[specialj8d]

Ronda Macura was a seamstress and Yellow Ajah informant. She poisoned Elayne and Nyneave with Forkroot Tea(our first glimpse of it) on orders from Elaida. (This happens in either Shadow Rising, I believe.) The plot was foiled by Thom and Juilen, and Ronda was punished severely by Elaida for her failure.  She's since taken up with the Seanchan, professing to hate all Aes Sedai, and she's clued them in to her fork root tea.  It's likely because of her that there was so much it being manufactured by the Seanchan for Perrin to procure in Winter's  Heart.

 

Florean Gelb was first seen in EotW. He's a member of the Crew on Bayle Doman's ship, and was sleeping at his post when Thom, Rand, and Mat board during the night while fleeing the Trollocs from Shaidar Logoth.  He's kicked off of Bayle's ship at Whitebridge. He makes another appearance later in the series in Tanchico, where he's working for Egeanin to recover the AWAL Sul`dam.  He mistakes Nyneave for one of the women on his list, and Egeanin helps the two woman avoid capture.

 

I hope that helps.

[Razor]

OK thanks