Prophecy for Luc Mantear

[Beli Tsar]

Ok, so everyone (more or less) knows Gitara Moroso as the woman who sent Tigraine on her path to the Waste and thus able to give birth according to prophecy to the Dragon Reborn. However, in LoC it was also stated that she had convinced Tigraine's brother Luc that the outcome of TG would be dependent on his going North into the Blight. Has it been hinted at anywhere in what sense this might be or does anyone have any plausible theories on the matter? So far the only result we've seen is Luc is sort of half-mad, or I suppose a more appropriate phrase would be "kill-happy" and is now a member of the Shadow who wouldn't mind slaying his nephew and savior or the Light. Seems odd to me that an Aes Sedai concerned with the welfare of the world and defeating the shadow would send a man who (as far as I know) had no previous dark dealings on a path to becoming a top flight assassin/weapon for the Shadow.

 

Other random point I'm curious on: do you all think he's likelier to come across Lan in the form of his cousin Isam or Rand in the form of Luc? I know most would say Perrin in his Slayer form, but of the two I'd say the Isam form would make for a far more interesting scenario as Rand already has many individual characters he will have to clash with whereas Lan has no one in particular and it would seem fitting for them to do battle as it was Isam's mother's jealousy of Lan's parents that helped lead to the downfall of Malkier, and they would be the two leading candidates for the throne of Malkier.

[Majsju]

For all we know, Gitara just saw that having Luc chasing after Tigraine would lead to disaster, so she found a way to send him on his merry way.

 

Or he could be the one to kill Fain, which could save Rands life. Although, I see fain as the winner of a facedown between the two.

 

Oh, and one more thing. There is no "Slayer form". He either looks like Luc or Isam, Slayer is just a name the wolves has given him, and he is Slayer whether he looks like Luc or Isam (Though Isam seems to deserve the name better, since he is the one who enjoys killing wolves the most).

[benr]

I guess I find it hard to believe that Gitara would send him off on a whim, misusing her fortelling (kind of).  I see Perrin taking him out eventually, but as to what he does to justify his being sent to the blight is an interesting mystery.  Why do you think he would be the one to take out Fain, Majsju?  I will be surprised if this isn't cleared up in AMoL.

[Paviel]

It's possible that there was no prophecy regarding Luc. Dyelin only says that there were rumors about it. In fact...

 

"After Luc rode north, never to return, whispers said that Gitara had convinced him that his fame lay in the Blight, or his fate. Others said it was that he would find the Dragon Reborn there, or that the Last Battle depended on him going..." etc.

 

However, Dyelin qualifies these rumors by saying "Myself, I doubt Gitara had anything to do with it, or with Luc." (LoC p. 385-386)

[Majsju]

  Why do you think he would be the one to take out Fain, Majsju?  I will be surprised if this isn't cleared up in AMoL.

 

Because he was given that very mission as far back as TSR, possibly even earlier. And unlike Rand, Perrin or Lan just bumping into him, the confrontation with fain is well set up.

 

But I think Fain is more likely to emerge victorious from that confrontation, given his mad skills we probably still have not seen all of.

[Beli Tsar]

 

Because he was given that very mission as far back as TSR, possibly even earlier. And unlike Rand, Perrin or Lan just bumping into him, the confrontation with fain is well set up.

 

 

Very true, buut he was also assigned to kill Rand as seen in his botched attempt in Far Madding so unless that order was rescinded, I imagine he'd be more of a primary target....excepting of course the fact that Rand's location is near impossible to pin down thanks to his jumping around.

 

Oh, and mucho apologies on the "slayer form" comment....was writing in haste. Well aware that that's not an actual form of his, but it is how I tend to think of him in relation to Perrin rather than just Luc or Isam.

 

It's possible that there was no prophecy regarding Luc. Dyelin only says that there were rumors about it. In fact...

 

"After Luc rode north, never to return, whispers said that Gitara had convinced him that his fame lay in the Blight, or his fate. Others said it was that he would find the Dragon Reborn there, or that the Last Battle depended on him going..." etc.

 

 

 

Even though only "rumor" it seems most likely that Gitara had some hand in it, and although Maj's idea of perhaps just keeping him from following and interfering with Tigraine is entirely credible, just seems to me that she'd have something more in mind than to just keep him out of the way especially considering the outcome on his part.

 

However, I was just hoping to catch air with this post as I hadn't heard anything more than the quote Paviel used and hoped someone might have remembered a line or two I'd missed/forgotten or had heard RJ say something concerning this

[42Bonzo88]

    Just my own thoughts on the matter, have no book reference, but I always thought that when/if the confrontation occurs between Rand and Slayer, that Luc would do something to prevent Isam from killing Rand. Making the death blow come a little later, allowing Rand to escape. Or something like that. Makes for a good reason for Gitara to send him and considering she did have the fortelling, if for Tigraine, why not Luc?

[Pevin]

If the rumors about Gitara wanting Luc to go north are true, I have always assumed it had something to do with killing Rand's father Janduin.  Even though that happens after Rand has already been found by Tam, I still think it is crucial to have him out of the way.  If Janduin had survived, he may have gone looking for Rand or still been around when Rand came to the waste.  Either way could have caused problems for Rand to fulfill his destiny.  That is the best I've come up with.

[Generic Aelfinn #2]

that Luc would do something to prevent Isam from killing Rand.

 

not happening, luc specifically states that he will ENJOY killing his nephew.

[Guest Dreadlord]

Has anyone considered that Gitara may be Black Ajah? There IS a prophecy relating to both Luc and Isam, the one written in blood on Fains prison wall in book 2.

 

 

"Luc came to the Mountains of Dhoom.

Isam waited in the high passes.

The hunt is now begun. The Shadow's hounds now course, and kill.

One did live, and one did die, but both are.

The Time of Change has come"

 

If Gitara was Black Ajah, it would stand to reason that she knew about this prophecy, and sent Luc to the Blight because she knew he would become a creature of the Shadow.

[Majsju]

That sounds more like propagandha than prophecy to me, as most of what was written on that wall.

[Luckers]

Whilst i concider the prophecy written on the wall in KoD to be prophecy, i dont think it requires Gitara be a Darkfriend--indeed, given her actions for the light i doubt it.

 

My guess is that Gitara simply foretold that Luc had to go north. There is nothing that says foretelling must directly serve the light, and even if it must, whose to say the influence Luc has had--certainly his actions influenced the way Perrin acted in the Two Rivers--Perrins initial lecture came directly from his disgust of Luc's ideas. And how much since has been influenced by that.

 

 

[Beli Tsar]

Does anyone know how long after Rand's birth Luc killed Janduin?

 

In the books they say that Janduin gave up his position as clan chief due to remorse over allowing Tigraine to accompany the war party and her ultimate end, which would mean a decent amount of time had likely passed before his meeting with Luc unless he did it immediately before returning.

 

On a side note, seems odd to me that Janduin wouldn't have went out in search for his son by the now deceased woman he loves, unless of course her body was never recovered and he therefore had no way of knowing that Rand survived.

 

And speaking of that prophecy:

 

"Luc came to the Mountains of Dhoom.

Isam waited in the high passes.

The hunt is now begun. The Shadow's hounds now course, and kill.

One did live, and one did die, but both are.

The Time of Change has come"

 

Can't help but be curious just what happened at that encounter since wasn't Isam just a boy at the time? Would be odd to stumble across in the high passes of the Mountains of Dhoom. And which of em is it that is supposed to have died?

[Minnea]

I'm not sure, but isn't Isam at least as old as Lan? He was born before Malkier fell anyway, so he must be.

While I don't remember exactly how old Lan is, he was not a "boy" in New Spring as Rand was born.

[Beli Tsar]

Ahhhh all too true. Was thinking Luc had went there far earlier and only on the fact that Isam went up there as a baby and might've been a boy at the time. But Yyeah they would both be adults then since Isam and Lan were both babies at the time it likely occured closer to events around the birth of Rand or at least around the time Tigraine left for the Waste, meaning Isam was at least a teenager so they'd have met as relatively grown men.....wonder what Isam was up to all those years in the Mountains....

[Paviel]

not happening, luc specifically states that he will ENJOY killing his nephew.

 

I don't remember this quote, so of course I don't remember whether it was made clear which nephew he meant...

 

I'm pretty sure that Luc has as much reason to want to kill Galad as Rand.

[Majsju]

The context makes it pretty clear it is Rand, especially since Luc mentions "his nephew and the wench". Galad may be set to hook up with berelain, but it has not happened yet.

[RAND AL THOR]

I hate to even imagine Gitara as BA. OMG how horrible! But I think she isnt anyway. She was the reason why the Dragon was born in the first place. She had told Tigraine to go and become a maiden or 'disaster will fall on the world.' If she was BA, then she need not have done that-since disaster falling on the world would favour the dark.

 

Unfortunately I have nothing to contribute to the original idea in this thread. The whole Luc/Isam thing has been VERY hazy in my mind. There are just so many references here and there it is all soooo confusing. ;)

[MatrixM]

If Janduin had lived, the Shaido would not have defected.

[Luckers]

If Janduin had lived, the Shaido would not have defected.

 

What makes you say that--Janduin had no influence over the Shaido, nor over Asmodean who initiated the split.

 

 

[MatrixM]

Janduin almost eliminated the blood feud between Shaido and Goshien, or whichever one Rhuarc is leader of.

[Luckers]

No he didn't, he almost eliminated the blood feud between the Goshien and the Shaarad. Rhuarc, like Janduin himself, was Taardad, and neither the Taardad nor the Shaido had a blood feud with the Goshien, or for that matter with each other, though it came close.

 

Either way, Janduin had no influence with the Shaido.