Whats going to happen to Fain?

[anthonyelayne]

As i see it, the more i hate a character the more he gains power in my readings. I hate fain, so im going to expect that he becomes more important in AMOT. Personally I think he will suffer the same fate as Mashadar through corruption/greed. Maybe even tainting a ruined city after TG. Thus the wheel weaves a new age of a similar past. Again just a thought...

[RAND AL THOR]

As i see it, the more i hate a character the more he gains power in my readings.

 

YAY! Someone else doesn't like Fain, just like me!

 

I hate fain, so im going to expect that he becomes more important in AMOT.

:o :o :o

A Memory of Time

A Memory of Trollocs

A Memory of Tigraine

A Memory of TOR

A Memory of Tam

A Memory of Tolkien

A Memory of Tarmon Gaidon

 

Now which one of those was RJ"s name for the last book? ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Luckers]

The simple reason we know Taim is not Moridin is that their methodologies are completely different. Taim is blunt, harsh even. Moridin subtle, a scholar. End of game.

[Mr Ares]

who said Demandred  was taim... he's clearly mordin...

It was a popular theory once upon a time. RJ has since shot it down, and some things in WH make it pretty unworkable. Of course, there is a scene in Winter's Heart where Kisman thinks about Taim ordering him to kill Rand, followed by Demandred ordering him to kill Rand, followed by Moridin ordering him to ring back everything Rand had in his possession. He is allowed to kill him if he has to. So why would Demandred or Moridin feel the need for such redundancy in the orders they give? Taim is Taim, however you cut it.

 

I hate fain, so im going to expect that he becomes more important in AMOT.

A Memory of Time

A Memory of Trollocs

A Memory of Tigraine

A Memory of TOR

A Memory of Tam

A Memory of Tolkien

A Memory of Tarmon Gaidon

 

Now which one of those was RJ"s name for the last book? ;D ;D ;D ;D

None of them. It was to be A Memory of Tights, and refers to the Aes Sedai decision to start wearing stockings and suspenders instead. Well, we have all noticed the importance of clothing to the series, haven't we?

[Bob T Dwarf]

And all ominously foreshadowed by Elayne's stint as a high-wire act in Luca's Circus.

[benr]

Verin?  In tights?  This is the DO's work, surely.

[RAND AL THOR]

Before Verin, lets imagine Cadsuane first.

[Mr Ares]

Before Verin, lets imagine Cadsuane first.

You weren't doing that already? I find that hard to believe!

[Luckers]

"We're witches! Witches in tigh-ights! We channel from the rich, and give to the Tower--thats right!"

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

Week 4 Question: At recent book signing following the release of Crossroads of Twilight, it was reported that you confirmed that the Forsaken Demandred has never posed as the man known as Mazrim Taim, who was introduced to Rand at the beginning of Lord of Chaos. Have you confirmed that Demandred has never posed as the man known as Mazrim Taim, leader of the Black Tower?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: Yes. Demandred has never posed as Mazrim Taim. All right, those of who fell over from the shock of a simple, straightforward answer can get up off the floor now. Sometimes, simple and straightforward can be the most devious of all, as any student of Aes Sedai will tell you. <Maniacal laughter from the shadows!>

 

 

I think IF we parsed that closely enough we could make a case that he was being very crafty.  The word "posed" being the important operative term.

 

Since I don't wanna fight that particular battle right now, I'll leave it to someone else to tease out what he might really have been trying to tell us.

UNQUOTE

 

Oh man RJ was a genious at misleading people. Can you not see? He was using Aes Sedai talk! He said Demandred never posed as Mazrim Taim. That bit about the most simple and straightforward answers being the most devious of all was simply a comment to make us wonder, to make us think even in a straightforward answer there is still something to speculate.

 

Demandred has never posed as Mazrim Taim... for a moment I wondered if nobody was born Mazrim Taim, that Taim has always been Demandred, but that would still mean Demandred posed as Taim, even if Taim was an alias he made up.

 

Sometimes simple, straightforward answers ARE the most devious of them all. He wasnt lying. But the fact that he slipped that sentence in there makes me think he did it purely to make us doubt the finality of his answer. We should expect this from RJ, since he came up with Aes Sedai who twist the truth so far that its barely recognisable.

 

[Luckers]

I'm not entirely sure what you were trying to say Dreadlord, but i would point out that Mazrim Taim appeared before Demandred was freed--ergo it cannot be suggested  that Demandred is Taim simply because he made the man up--it was a real man, and to take over his place, to pretend to be him would be 'posing' as him.

 

That was probably what you were saying, so sorry if i repeated you, i just wasn't sure.

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

Robert Jordan Answers: Yes. Demandred has never posed as Mazrim Taim. All right, those of who fell over from the shock of a simple, straightforward answer can get up off the floor now. Sometimes, simple and straightforward can be the most devious of all, as any student of Aes Sedai will tell you. <Maniacal laughter from the shadows!>

UNQUOTE

 

What I was saying is that RJ said the comment i put in bold simply to make a simple answer of "Demandred has never posed as Taim" seem to be not that simple. Aes Sedai talk.

[Bob T Dwarf]

... but i would point out that Mazrim Taim appeared before Demandred was freed--ergo it cannot be suggested  that Demandred is Taim simply because he made the man up--it was a real man, and to take over his place, to pretend to be him would be 'posing' as him.

 

How so?  We have no idea when Demandred was freed.  We don't get to see him until the Prologue to LoC, but how long he's been up, about, and active???

 

I think there are other indications that he isn't Taim, but disqualification on the basis of timing isn't viable.

[Luckers]

Actually we do. Balthemel and Aginor were freed first, just prior to their appearence at the Eye of the World, Taim had already been active as a Dragon by that stage.

 

What I was saying is that RJ said the comment i put in bold simply to make a simple answer of "Demandred has never posed as Taim" seem to be not that simple. Aes Sedai talk.

 

Unfortunately then, it is. Taim existed (actively) prior to Demandreds release--ergo Demandred has never used the name Taim, since to do so would require him pretending to be a man that already existed, something directly precluded by RJ's comment.

[Guest Dreadlord]

Exactly. When RJ said "Demandred has never posed as Taim" that was a very final, definite answer. So he added that "simple, straightforward answers can be the most devious ones." He only added that to make us think there was a hidden message in there somewhere. There wasnt one. He spoke the truth outright, and added the second comment to make us think he was dancing around something that wasnt there.

[Luckers]

Ah, i get what you mean--red herring.

[billoumm7]

DEMANDRED IS MORDIN!

[Razor]

Maybe so, but who is...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[move]

 

[glow=red,2,300]MORIDIN?[/glow][/move]

[RAND AL THOR]

Maybe so, but who is...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[move]

 

[glow=red,2,300]MORIDIN?[/glow][/move]

 

Obvious.....

 

 

[glow=red,2,300][shadow=red,left]DEMANDRED[/shadow][/glow]

[bad company]

Yes that really answers it doesn't it ::)

[Guest Dreadlord]

Demandred is Moridin? Please tell me that wasnt a serious post

[RAND AL THOR]

Yes that really answers it doesn't it ::)

 

;D Indeed it does. ;)

 

Demandred is Moridin? Please tell me that wasnt a serious post

 

Rest in peace Dreadlord. We are having fun. :)

[bad company]

That's like me saying I'm Robert Jordan despite the fact you know I'm not

[billoumm7]

did i say that? i meant TAIM is MORDIN.

[Mr Ares]

did i say that? i meant TAIM is MORDIN.

You would still be wrong. In Winter's Heart 22 Kisman thinks about being ordered by Taim to kill Rand (the Cairhien attempt), then being ordered to do it again (the Far Madding attempt). Then he recalls Demandred telling him to kill Rand, and not to let anyone (even Taim) know. Then he recalls Moridin saying "kill him if you have to", followed by the instruction to bring back everything in Rand's possession. Why does Moridin/Taim feel the need to give such similar yet different orders? Why the redundancy of the two commands? Simple answer, Taim isn't Moridin. Taim is Taim.