Civil War Mafia: The Abolitionists Are Coming! Game Over!

[DPR]

 

I'm still reading through Sirayn's posts, but I did vote on Day 2 - I was the hammer vote.

[DPR]

 

Pg.42 - I'm the 2nd to last vote. Because I voted last, I just assumed that the anonymous last vote was me. Uh oh. heh

[DPR]

o.k. guys, i screwed up the vote count yesterday, however!! since there were only 8 needed and there were a total of nine, the count still stands, kivam is still dead.

 

Then there is this post.

 

Can we get Mod clarification on what happened here?

[Barmacral]

Yes. One of the votes that was on there should not have been. Alys forgot to change it to reflect what it should. However, once the vote was corrected, there were still enough votes on Kivam to kill him, so he died.

[loki redfern]

which vote?

[Barmacral]

One of the ones that was cast on that day.

[DPR]

 

That's not exactly what I would call, uh, sporting? If it was a mod error, then perhaps we could appeal for a less ambiguous answer? I know, and would never argue, the mod's right to run the game in any way that they choose. But we do have a sticky situation here. Is there anything else you can tell us?

[Luthine]

I've called for the players who have not said much in this game to come out and tell us what you think. 

Yup, that's what I'd been trying to do, too many players laying low for our sake.

 

Regarding our "main event" I am for the Jelly lynch. As I've said before, I love love love the idea of her being evil, have for quite a while now. (On a sidenote, I also think Blig and her make a lovely mafia couple)

Meta-gaming, she has brilliantly pulled off the "I am so confused and helpless, I must be innocent" act before, which allowed her most suspicious actions (letting the Finder get lynched per say) go unnoticed. That's for my gut feelings, I don't hold any of this as proof of course. I might even be biased considering I was the said Finder  :P

 

On a more "rational" level, this is what we're looking at:

The dude: real Finder or Mafia

Jelly: crazy Finder or Mafia.

(Loki, I'm not putting up there the insane/miller combo you suggested, it's way too convoluted and I think she'd at least know if she was a miller, just like DPR)

 

For the sake of getting info, I vote [glow=red,2,300]Jelly[/glow]

If she's genuine, we'll know to lynch the dude and won't have lost much since her random results are useless. If she's mafia, then yippy. All in all, we're definitively getting a Mafia by lynching her so I'm going for it.

 

DPR, don't waste your time on the vote thing, May stole your vote and put it on Kivam

and Alys forgot to change it to reflect what it should

[Blig Blog]

(On a sidenote, I also think Blig and her make a lovely mafia couple)

 

I think that me and Jell Jell do make a nice couple.  :)

 

But, as i have said, i am not mafia. So, yes, we do make a nice couple. Just not a mafia couple. ;)

 

Tell me for real Luthine, why do you keep getting on me as mafia? You trying to call me out again cuz i have not been on this game for a few days? I think that that might be it but tell me, why do you keep calling ME out? There are quite a few other's that you could call out.

 

On a more "rational" level, this is what we're looking at:

The dude: real Finder or Mafia

Jelly: crazy Finder or Mafia.

(Loki, I'm not putting up there the insane/miller combo you suggested, it's way too convoluted and I think she'd at least know if she was a miller, just like DPR)

 

For the sake of getting info, I vote [glow=red,2,300]Jelly[/glow]

If she's genuine, we'll know to lynch the dude and won't have lost much since her random results are useless. If she's mafia, then yippy. All in all, we're definitively getting a Mafia by lynching her so I'm going for it.

 

I agree 100% with that though. I was going to say as much but i really didn't feel like getting around to it until now. [glow=red,2,300]Jell Jell[/glow]

[Blig Blog]

*hugs Jell Jell*

 

I'm glad that you are flattered.  :)

[Mayleigh Aes Sedai]

k well im guna go for [glow=red,2,300]jelly[/glow] just cuz we need some info and she seems the most evil at the moment!!

[loki redfern]

i think we should get at least another nights viewings outta them first, so im gonna vote [glow=red,2,300]blig[/glow]..becuase hes been very weird in this game, like trying to be to helpful

[Luthine]

Oops... I don't know what to think anymore.

 

[glow=red,2,300]Unvote[/glow]

 

Remember on Night 2, dude said he wasn't able to view Jelly and Kivam chimed in, explaining how he was the one responsible for that?

Thing is, the coroner report showed us that Kiv didn't have a role-blocking ability (and I asked the mods, it would have appeared in the report)

So let's slow things down a bit, I'm beginning to suspect the dude more and more and I'd love to have everyone's input.

 

 

Let's recap:

 

-On Day 1 he lets Vemy die before revealing

-He reveals during night, instead of waiting for the day to avoid a possible nightkill.

-On Day 2, this allows him and Kiv to spin their lovely little tale

-On Day 3 he makes vague and allusive posts regarding jelly's alignment and doesn't confirm that he viewed jelly and got a "mafia" result before I ask him, twice. I think this could have been done on purpose, that way when jelly turns out innocent he can say: oh but never said I'd viewed her, just that she looked suspicious, I actually viewed an innocent. 

 

Also, if I were Mafia and knew the dude to be the real finder, I'd have had a field day with all those inconsistencies and would have pushed for the lynch long ago. Then again, they could just be happy laying low...

 

And DPR ( hehe, finally got where your name was coming from "As you wish!") what do you mean by the mafia is keeping an eye on you?

[DPR]

DPR, don't waste your time on the vote thing, May stole your vote and put it on Kivam

Quote

and Alys forgot to change it to reflect what it should

 

I totally agree, but I just want to confirm it.  As the game goes on, we will have to depend entirely on evidence to see through whatever plots are in motion and it won't do to leave any loose threads hanging out there. I'd hate to lose because we overlooked something like that.  And I speak from experience..... :P

 

As for the great finder debate and who to lynch next, I totally encourage everyone to use their instincts. This is a murky one and it may well be a situation where looking at it too closely makes it more confusing. I'm going to post a few thought that I've had, and then I really do think we need to insist that every player comment on this situation unless they themselves want to fall under suspicion.

 

1. When I mod games, part of the fun is trying to second guess player reactions and draw them into situations where they will have to solve puzzles to win.  This is a grand tradition here on DM, and a good recent example is the Tiki game where I made Dark Justice the finder. I did this based on his name alone, just to see if he would get lynched for it. He did, and on the first day. So, I always have half an eye out for things like that.

 

Barm and Alys have advertised this as a complex game - variations on roles, new roles, withheld information and whatever else - so we know it's coming.

 

So it's not too far of a stretch for me to imagine giving two finders wonky finding abilities and letting them destroy each other, as well as confuse all of the innocents. Again, this is only one possible scenario that I have come up with. But when Alys starts talking about coming storms while we are debating the issue, it makes me crazy. 

 

2. We have a few very active posters, and an entire group of people who are barely posting at all.  When a game reaches this point, it is almost certainly because the mafia are hanging back and watching us tear each other to shreds. It's likely that their is one mafia helping to stir the commotion. But the rest are most likely protecting themselves, just trying to get people lynched so that they get closer to winning. The fact that so few people have posted about the current Jelly-Dude-finder situation makes it very easy for them to hide. So we should all be posting.

 

3. The other thing that bothers me is the fact that Kivam was mafia. This means that we had one of, if not the best plot planner on DM, in action and planning something.  His game performance did not leave us with a lot to go on, so whatever he ws planning is still happening. Whoever else was on the mafia team would be part of this plan - which means if either finder is mafia - then they are participating in a Kivam plot as we speak.

 

I just don't feel like having Jelly claim finder first, and knowingly give a bad reading on Vemy fits very well into a Kivam plot. It ultimately goes nowhere. Another finder will counter, sure, and it could be argued that the purpose was to hunt the real finder. But Jelly would still be lynched first, and the healer would cover the other finder as long as they could. This get's a mafia killed right away, and confirms the finder while there are still many players on the board and the chances of night-killing the healer are low.  This does not strike me as a Kivam plot, and we know that one is being worked. I think that Dude fits into a Kivam plan a little bit better, but only a little. 

 

I've posted ad-nauseam for and against Dude, so everyone already has my thoughts on that. But most of all, I just feel like we are being squeezed and that the reason that none of this makes sense is because we are not looking at it the right way.  I'm still holding my vote because I want to see what EVERYONE else has to say.

 

 

[DPR]

 

we are having another posting frenzy....

 

And DPR ( hehe, finally got where your name was coming from "As you wish!") what do you mean by the mafia is keeping an eye on you?

 

Real name Wesley = Dread Pirate Roberts as the ultimate handle.  ;D

 

Keeping an eye on me in the way that you glare at someone that keeps you from carrying out your evil plans! I'd like to think that all of my posting helps to some degree, and it's been on more than one occasion where I've hit on a possible plot and wound up night-killed for it. 

 

It's also possible that they have known that I'm the prisoner, but I'm not positive about that. But it would have made it easier to work a lynch against me to their benefit. It's part of why I revealed.

[Daetirion]

I totally agree with Wes on this (i know, the shame  ::))

 

I don't think lynching either Jelly or theDude is the way to go tonight. Another night kill and their findings may well give us the chance to work out which one is, or isn't real, or if both of them are.

 

Therefore if we disregard those two, who do we have left? A small hardcore of active players. Some of these may well be Mafia stirring it up, but the likelyhood is that the majority of those active are Innocent.

 

Which means we must turn our eyes on the inactives. Persuing a lynch here won't neccesarily rob us of an important player (however, knowing our luck we'll pick someone with a role), but it will give us information, and it will allow this not to be a totally wasted day. There are some very good players currently hiding in inactivity that i think we should have a very close look at and think about exactly what we want to do

[Blig Blog]

i think we should get at least another nights viewings outta them first, so im gonna vote [glow=red,2,300]blig[/glow]..becuase hes been very weird in this game, like trying to be to helpful

 

What? You don't want me to help?

[loki redfern]

its out of the ordinary, in past, and current games , your style in this one totally different and i think you stand out the most for me amongst the players i dont think should be lynched right now

[Blig Blog]

Not to be lynched right now?

 

So, that means i could be on your "lynch now" list in the future?

 

I am trying to be helpful now cuz i got a lot less stress. School for me ends in about 2 days after this weekend.

[Luthine]

I am trying to be helpful now cuz i got a lot less stress. School for me ends in about 2 days after this weekend.

That just doesn't make any sense.

I'm for the Blig lynch too, will make a lengthy post recaping all my reasons later

 

[Barmacral]

Wes, we have confirmed that there was a moderator error with the vote count, it was fixed, and ultimately, fixing it did not change the outcome of the game. Stating anything else on the matter could be construed as moderator intervention, and as thus, skewing the game for one side or the other. In order to ensure that this game remains fair for all parties, further information will not be disclosed by Alys or myself on the matter.

[Blig Blog]

Think what you want to think Luthine. And, actually, i am all for lynching me, after we get rid of Jelly. Why? You might ask.

 

So the people who think i am mafia can finaly figure out what big dumnasses they are.

 

Go ahead and think i'm mafia, you won't find out an ounce of info. from lynching me.  ;)

[Sirayn]

(I ran out of mafia enthusiasm when I started looking over day three. I'll continue later.)

 

Remember on Night 2, dude said he wasn't able to view Jelly and Kivam chimed in, explaining how he was the one responsible for that?

Thing is, the coroner report showed us that Kiv didn't have a role-blocking ability (and I asked the mods, it would have appeared in the report)

 

I'm going to assume that Luthine wouldn't lie about something anyone could verify by PMing the mods. This is an interesting point. Kivam didn't roleblock the dude - but we also never had a counter-claim. It's possible we have an epidemic of late-claim-itis in this game, but given the rough ride the dude got for not counter-claiming in a timely way, I find that hard to believe.

[Luthine]

So the people who think i am mafia can finaly figure out what big dumnasses they are.

And guess what insulting people makes you?

I'm all for taking the games seriously and all but you crossed a line here, and that's inexcusable.

Tsk, you're not even worth it and I shouldn't even have bothered dignifying you with a response.

[loki redfern]

beh i meant amongst the ones i see as lynching at the momnent

 

i think sirayn higlighst an interesting bit there, .. the only way i can think of that it would work, is either, there is another mafia with that role, and kivam decided to use that to make him look a bit more of an asset OR the dude is mafia and planed not to reveal and say kivam roleblovked