quick question about Demandred...

[Dashiva]

In LoC ch. 7, A Matter of Thought. It's a PoV of Elayne and the Aes Sedai in the World of Dreams. Anyways at the end of the chapter Elayne goes to Caemlyn to look at the Lion Throne. She notices how Rand put her throne up on a pedestal, etc. Demandred pops out behind the pillars and not only recognizes Elayne but also questions how she feels about Rand in Andor. I have 2 questions about this scene...

 

1. Demandred leaves TAR like this, "..and opened a gateway to leave tel'aran'rhiod." So i assume that if you weave a gateway to leave TAR then you are there in the flesh. Because if you were just dreaming yourself there you could just wake up and wouldn't need to weave a gateway to leave. And i was wondering is it possible to leave TAR in the flesh from one point to another or are you bound to where you are? I know its confusing but for example: would you leave in the flesh from Andor to the exact spot in Andor in the real world? Or can you leave from Andor to another location?

 

2. How was Demandred there to begin with? Is he there in Caemlyn lurking around on Rand? Was he spying on Elanye and followed her there from Tar Valon to Caemlyn? The latter seems unlikely but im not sure.

 

Demandred and his maneuvers are wrapped in mystery for the most part, but im trying to figure what hes up to this reread. So any light on this situation i appreciate greatly.   

[RAND AL THOR]

And i was wondering is it possible to leave TAR in the flesh from one point to another or are you bound to where you are? I know its confusing but for example: would you leave in the flesh from Andor to the exact spot in Andor in the real world? Or can you leave from Andor to another location?

   

 

No. If you remember, when the Aes Sedai meet Egwene in Tel'aran'rhiod in the Heart of the Stone,Rand spies on them. Rand is there in the flesh since he doesn't know how to come through dreaming. Obviously, Rand is nowhere near Tear.  This means that you can weave a gateway into the world of dreams from anywhere and go to an entirely different place. My only issue with this idea is this: When Egwene went to Salidar, why did she have to travel so far in Tel'aran'rhiod?  She did go in the flesh then after all. ???

[Luckers]

No. If you remember, when the Aes Sedai meet Egwene in Tel'aran'rhiod in the Heart of the Stone,Rand spies on them. Rand is there in the flesh since he doesn't know how to come through dreaming. Obviously, Rand is nowhere near Tear.  This means that you can weave a gateway into the world of dreams from anywhere and go to an entirely different place. My only issue with this idea is this: When Egwene went to Salidar, why did she have to travel so far in Tel'aran'rhiod?  She did go in the flesh then after all.

 

Rand could have travelled through TAR to reach Tear like Egwene did--we know that around that time he went back to check on the wardings on Callandor anyway.

 

On the other hand, it could be possible, Egwene may just not know the method.

[RAND AL THOR]

True true.

 

I'm currently re-reading LOC. If I find any examples of such instances, I'll add them here.

[Luckers]

This may or may not be related, but Demandred arrives at the Forsaken Coffee Hours through entering normally, and they take place in TAR--though a wierd part of TAR, distant and perhaps not truly a part at all.

 

They may also be protected in some way to keep people from entering via travelling or normal dreaming. We know both things are possible, and its what id do if i were carrying on a supersecret meeting.

[42Bonzo88]

    Okay, Luckers, if your theory is true about the forsaken meeting in a place that would be difficult to dream there, is that where they were meeting when Perrin was led by Hopper in TDR or was that just a random place? Just curious, because the world of dreams has been one part of WOT that is difficult for me to understand.

Thanks for your help,

[Luckers]

No, thats just a random place--the place they meet for the Coffee Hours (the meetings in Winter's Heart and Knife of Dreams) is something else, more set--and my guess not entirely in Tel'aran'rhiod, but rather somewhere else, but linked to it. But thats all guesswork.

 

 

[trakand_01]

 

No. If you remember, when the Aes Sedai meet Egwene in Tel'aran'rhiod in the Heart of the Stone,Rand spies on them. Rand is there in the flesh since he doesn't know how to come through dreaming.

 

One of the best things IMO about Rand is his lack of concern for actually learning how to do something. Like his method of travelling - he thinks "I dont know how to do it properly, but rather than bother about that, i'll just bore a hole through the pattern."

 

Makes me think of the kiddies you see practically jumping up and down on the square block, to make it fit through the round hole.

[42Bonzo88]

    Good one trakand 01, it reminds me of when I'm doing puzzles with my family. When I was younger, my dad would slip a couple of pieces into his pocket and after turning the room upside down with my bros and sisters, he would come in and say something like "You mean you couldn't find these, they go right here! It's so OBVIOUS!!"

 

    Then after I got married, my wife would come over and just pick up a random piece and smash it into a place in the puzzle, even though it isn't even close to where its supposed to go, and say "I don't care where the box says it's supposed to be. It goes right HERE!! lol

 

   

[Luckers]

One of the best things IMO about Rand is his lack of concern for actually learning how to do something. Like his method of travelling - he thinks "I dont know how to do it properly, but rather than bother about that, i'll just bore a hole through the pattern."

 

What do you mean? Rand's method of travelling is the normal method employed by men.

 

But yeah, I like it too... i suppose it comes from never having a formal education. All of his knowledge is cobbeled together, so why should he have concern about doing things the 'proper way'. I do agree that it is one of the things I like about him--unlike other characters he doesn't do things simply because they've always been done that way. That habit in the Aes Sedai irritates the hell out of me.

[Corbett]

No, thats just a random place--the place they meet for the Coffee Hours (the meetings in Winter's Heart and Knife of Dreams) is something else, more set--and my guess not entirely in Tel'aran'rhiod, but rather somewhere else, but linked to it. But thats all guesswork.

 

 

I am amaized. Something that Luckers doesnt know. It stuns me.

[drunkengrizzly]

if i'm reading the original post correctly, dashiva's question had nothing to do with traveling while in TAR.  rand says the gateway into TAR is slightly different than traveling, i think he actually derived traveling from jumping to TAR in the flesh.  so i think the question was, since its' literally a gateway, could you make the gateway to anywhere, and alter it for entering/exiting TAR?

[Asmo]

In Tel'Aran'Rhiod, you can just think yourself in another place and transport there. I doubt that changes whether you are dreaming or in the flesh - the properties of the world itself remain the same. So there wouldn't be much need for it, but yeah, I guess, since the gateways used to travel to the world of dreams function at least akin to the ones used to travel across the material world, using more of the One Power can allow you to travel further and further away into a different location, just as you would in reality.

[Luckers]

I am amaized. Something that Luckers doesnt know. It stuns me.

 

I cried a little while writing it, if that helps? :)

 

In Tel'Aran'Rhiod, you can just think yourself in another place and transport there. I doubt that changes whether you are dreaming or in the flesh - the properties of the world itself remain the same. So there wouldn't be much need for it, but yeah, I guess, since the gateways used to travel to the world of dreams function at least akin to the ones used to travel across the material world, using more of the One Power can allow you to travel further and further away into a different location, just as you would in reality.

 

I just rechecked the chapter. Rand, after witnessing the meeting of the Wise Ones and Aes Sedai in Tear first creates a gateway to the reflection of the Royal Palace of Andor. This suggests that one cannot create a gateway directly to the real world in a different location.

[Nightstrike]

No. If you remember, when the Aes Sedai meet Egwene in Tel'aran'rhiod in the Heart of the Stone,Rand spies on them. Rand is there in the flesh since he doesn't know how to come through dreaming. Obviously, Rand is nowhere near Tear.   This means that you can weave a gateway into the world of dreams from anywhere and go to an entirely different place. My only issue with this idea is this: When Egwene went to Salidar, why did she have to travel so far in Tel'aran'rhiod?  She did go in the flesh then after all. ???

 

LoC, summoned in haste:

"Laughing he opened a gateway to the reflection of the palace in Caemlyn."

 

 

Rand Travels in TAR after entering in the flesh. Egwene hasn't learned to make Gateways yet.

 

Edit: I just saw someone else had already pointed that out.

[Dashiva]

if i'm reading the original post correctly, dashiva's question had nothing to do with traveling while in TAR.  rand says the gateway into TAR is slightly different than traveling, i think he actually derived traveling from jumping to TAR in the flesh.  so i think the question was, since its' literally a gateway, could you make the gateway to anywhere, and alter it for entering/exiting TAR?

 

Precisely. So its possible to weave Gateways in and out of TAR (in the flesh) anywhere it seems. Im more or less confused about the rules of TAR while there in the flesh too. In TAR dreaming you can imagine yourself 20 feet in front of you or on the other side of the world instantly. But in the flesh it seems you have to travel yourself somewhere else? Alot of this i pull from the Rand vs Rahvin fight. They always channeled to and from each other via gateways. Rahvin has no excuse but Rand is new to TAR and doesn't know any of the rules and is that why he cant do it but its possible?

 

My only issue with this idea is this: When Egwene went to Salidar, why did she have to travel so far in Tel'aran'rhiod?  She did go in the flesh then after all. ???

 

This always bugged me too. Didn't she Skim her way there? Why didn't she just do what Rand does and, once there in the flesh, travel again to Salidar, and then step out into the real world?

 

I know its all confusing but i was just curious about Demandred and was wondering about his TAR skills. Does anyone know how knowledgeable he is about TAR compared to other Forsaken? I cant seem to recall any info on that.

[Luckers]

Precisely. So its possible to weave Gateways in and out of TAR (in the flesh) anywhere it seems.

 

Well, again, it doesn't seem that because Rand is forced to first travel to the TAR reflection of Caemlyn before leaving the dream.

 

This always bugged me too. Didn't she Skim her way there? Why didn't she just do what Rand does and, once there in the flesh, travel again to Salidar, and then step out into the real world?

 

She didn't skim, and the reason she didn't do as Rand did was that she had not as yet figured out how to Travel.