"Against what do we guard?" "The shadow at noon"

[RAND AL THOR]

"Against what do we guard?" "The shadow at noon"

 

This appears above in the Great Hunt, when the Amyrlin Seat visit Agelmar. There has been a lot of controversy about this on other WOT fansites and I thought of posting the idea here as well. Many people link this statement with the prophecy,

'twice dawns the day when his blood is shed, once for mourning, once for birth."

 

Since the double dawning is widely believed to be linked to an eclipse, the 'shadow at noon' is said to support this.

 

However, my viewpoint is this:

The noon sun casts no shadows. In the Lord of the Rings, Aragorn tells Frodo that the Nazgul can sense shadows, 'which only the noon sun destroys."

The 'shadow at noon' merely implies that the the forces of the light are always alert and will always defend the lands against the shadow, even at noon when shadows are supposedly non-existent.

 

What are your opinions?

[aussie_ashaman123]

I agree, and think it goes further, the Shadow at Noon also signifies everpresent evil.

[sunshine + gasoline]

Ah, I never thought of it that way but I like it alot now that you explained. Very nice if this is what RJ intended with that line.

[Feston]

The Dragon Reborn is also called He Who Comes With The Dawn. What comes at dawn? The sun. What does the sun destroy? Shadows.

[Majsju]

But then, without sun, no shadows...

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

But then, without sun, no shadows

UNQUOTE

 

No. Without the sun, one big shadow that nothing can escape. But that doesnt really mean anything.

 

I think that guarding against the shadow at noon thing just means they are guarding against the unexpected. It would be the same if Darkfriends said they are guarding against the sun at midnight.

[Feston]

Perhaps the Amyrlin seat was referring to the possibility of a darkfriend in their midsts, a shadow where one would not be expected. She could have even meant Ingtar.

[fuzzybunny]

Take a look at pg 437 of TSR.

Then a hundred gouts spurted everywhere around the huge white sphere.  The Sharom broke apart like an egg and began to drift down, falling, an obsidian inferno.  Darkness spread across the sky, swallowing the sun in unnatural night, as if the light of those flames was blackness.  People were screaming, screaming everywhere.

  It's the scene in Rhuidean where Rand relives the Bore being created.  The Shadow at noon and twice dawns the day could refer to the hole being created in the DOs prison.

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

The Dragon Reborn is also called He Who Comes With The Dawn. What comes at dawn? The sun. What does the sun destroy? Shadows.

True.

 

But I think the He Who Comes With The Dawn refers to the fact that he spent longer in Rhuheadan (sp) than was normal. Didn't he leave one day and return at dawn on the next?

 

I think it's merely a way for the Aiel to recognise him, similar to the drawing of Callandor for the Wetlanders.

[RAND AL THOR]

Perhaps the Amyrlin seat was referring to the possibility of a darkfriend in their midsts, a shadow where one would not be expected. She could have even meant Ingtar.

 

That is highly unlikely.

The exchange of phrases is just a ceremony. That is very clear. Here is what it really says:

 

The woman beside the palanquin tapped her staff three times in reply. "The Watcher of the Seals. The

Flame of Tar Valon. The Amyrlin Seat."

"Why should we watch?" Ronan demanded.

"For the hope of humankind," the tall woman replied.

"Against what do we guard?"

"The shadow at noon."

"How long shall we guard?"

"From rising sun to rising sun, so long as the Wheel of Tire turns."

 

This is just a ceremony. Furthermore, He Who Comes With the Dawn is likely to have VERY little link to this at all.

[Guest Dreadlord]

Thats what I was thinking. Also, He Who Comes With The Dawn is an Aiel name for Rand; they dont care for the Dragon Reborn side. So while HWCWTD sounds like a name for Rands role in destroying the Shadow like the sun it is merely coincedence.

[anamul]

Its just a bombastic line they picked up. It means that they don't have anything better to do.  ;D  ;D  ;D :D  ;D

[aevogt]

The Dragon Reborn is also called He Who Comes With The Dawn. What comes at dawn? The sun. What does the sun destroy? Shadows.

True.

 

But I think the He Who Comes With The Dawn refers to the fact that he spent longer in Rhuheadan (sp) than was normal. Didn't he leave one day and return at dawn on the next?

 

I think it's merely a way for the Aiel to recognise him, similar to the drawing of Callandor for the Wetlanders.

 

He did return from Rhuidean with the Dawn but it was 7 days.

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

He did return from Rhuidean with the Dawn but it was 7 days.

Cheers. Just started the reread of Shadow Rising. It's been a while.

 

But anyways, HWCWTD is merely a marker for the Aiel.

[RAND AL THOR]

He Who Comes with the Dawn has nothing to do with the ceremonial greeting. Apologies, but  I cannot think how anyone could possibly relate the two. The two issues are very very distant.  ???

[Asmo]

That's as may be, but I still think all prophecies will be tied in in the end (I sort of believe even the Dark Prophecies made by the Shadow will be fulfilled, yet not in a way anyone expects) in the final phase of the Last Battle. So Aes Sedai, Wise Ones and so on will all go "OOH, SO THAT'S WHAT IT MEANT. I SEE NOW." and everything will make sense. Hopefully. The eclipse sounds good, I never thought of it but it may happen, regardless of whether it relates to a prophecy or not.

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

He Who Comes with the Dawn has nothing to do with the ceremonial greeting. Apologies, but  I cannot think how anyone could possibly relate the two. The two issues are very very distant.  ???

Exactly.

 

What I meant when I referred to it as a marker was this:

The Aiel go to the Stone - People of the Dragon & Rhuarc states that they were drawn to the Stone by the propechy once over the Dragonwall.

An Aiel-looking Wetlander turns up in Rhudiean (sp.) - This is linked to the blood raised by blood prophecy.

 

Then he comes back from Rhu. after being presumed dead because he's been gone longer than anyone else. He runs up the hill with the sun rising behind him.

 

Therefore, Rand has come with the dawn.

 

His title is, in my eyes, just the final marker to enable the Aiel to see him for who he is. Just as the taking of Callandor was the key sign for many in the Wetlands.

 

[Generic Aelfinn #2]

ya...'He Who Comes with the Dawn' as a title is simply because Rand came from rhuidean at dawn...

 

about 'the shadow at noon,' its just referring to everlasting vigilance.  remember how borderlanders only know about war? even when they're not fighting(*cough*Lan*cough*).  it's just a notice to keep on guard even when there appears to be no threat.

[Feston]

Isn't it funny how people can take the most innocent phrases and try to find all kinds of hidden meanings in them? And this is coming from someone who tries to find those hidden meanings.