The Last Battle

[Luckers]

RJ infers that Balefire could indeed kill the Dark One, only that the amoung require would destroy the Pattern as well.

[Guest Dreadlord]

I'll tell you what I want to see in the next book. I want the Rand-Moridin link to become a major plot. Communication should become possible via the link, Rand should learn that Moridin is Ishamael, and there should be a big buildup to a one on one. And in that fight, however it turns out, I want to see Moridin seriously wipe the floor with Rands face. Obviously Rand has to win though, but I want Moridin to mess him up, alot.

[bRANDan]

And i think were all forgetting Aveindhas knife, the one that hides you from all shadowspawn, maybe even the DO himself. With that knife, Rand can skip through the Blight, giving every fade he sees a wedgie, and casually walk into the Pit of Doom.

 

Hahahaha, now I have this image in my mind of Rand prancing past swarms of Shadowspawn ,arms swinging, a vapid smile on his face, singing "La la la la la la la", giving wedgies as he skips to the Blight.

 

 

[Feston]

And i think were all forgetting Aveindhas knife, the one that hides you from all shadowspawn, maybe even the DO himself. With that knife, Rand can skip through the Blight, giving every fade he sees a wedgie, and casually walk into the Pit of Doom.

 

Hahahaha, now I have this image in my mind of Rand prancing past swarms of Shadowspawn ,arms swinging, a vapid smile on his face, singing "La la la la la la la", giving wedgies as he skips to the Blight.

 

 

 

Don't forget wet willies.

[cloglord]

There is a small difference with those. They strolled off after having been sent away from the Borderlands.

 

We know that what is left behind after the massive army that went south is roughly enough to defend against anything short of the trolloc wars come again. Even the most naive estimation would put the onslaught that comes with TG as at the very least as massive as the trolloc wars. Ie, if thousands of soldiers betrayed their home countries, they would leave their beloved ones defenseless against hungry trollocs. And unlike when Agelmar talked about people following Lan, now everyone in the Borderlands knows that TG is coming.

But hey, perhaps the respect for a dead nation is gtreater than the honour to defend the own country, and the love for a wife or a child. "Eh, let my newborn son die, I am going to fight with the big and mighty Lan..."

 

Oh, so Uno and Bashere are beating a path back to the borderlands now that they know that TG is right around the corner?  They aren't?  Weird... But that's right Bashere doesn't have like three saldean provinces relying on him to defend them or anything....

 

Maybe we could look to what Agelmar, one of the great captains, and one of the  stalwart borderlanders you have so much faith in said.

 

TEotW Chapter 46 Fal Dara

"Kandor, Arafel, Saldea-the Trollocs raided them all straight through the winter.  Nothing like that has happened since the Trolloc Wars; the raids have never been so fierce, or so large, or pressed home so hard.  Every king and council is sure a great thrust is coming out of the blight, and every one if the Borderlands believes it is coming at them...People whisper that the world is ending, that the Dark One is loose again...It may be the last ingathering of the Lances.  ...Dai Shan, the Golden Crane banner in the van would put heart into men who know they are riding North to die.  The word will spread like wildfire, and thought their kings have told them to hold where they are, lances will come from Arafel and Kandor, and even from Saldea." 

 

Emphasis mine.  This is all taken from the bottom of page 586 and the top of page 587 in my 2nd ed hardcover copy of TEotW.

 

Algemar knows borderlanders.  He says that people believed that the last battle was coming, and that lances (implying soldiers not civilians,) would come from as far as Saldea despite the direct orders of their rulers.  Does Algemar have it wrong too?  Is it really that hard to send wives and children south?  I mean the Shienariens did in TEotW why couldn't the Kandori, or Arafelians?

[Majsju]

And Agelmar has experience from exactly how many TG?

 

What a person said two years earlier, during radically different circumstances, is pretty much irrelevant.

 

But if we are to play around with what Agelmar said in a completely different context, lets look at what he did not say...He did not say that so many soldiers would commit treason that their nations would stand empty and defenseless. Which is exactly what would happen if thousands of soldiers turned out to be traitors now.

 

Try some basic math, if you have 100k soldiers, having 10k running off is bad, but not a disaster. If you have 40-50k soldiers and 10k runs off, quite a different story.

[Feston]

Okay, I don't mean to spam this thread with wedgie jokes, but I have one last question to ask.

 

And i think were all forgetting Aveindhas knife, the one that hides you from all shadowspawn, maybe even the DO himself. With that knife, Rand can skip through the Blight, giving every fade he sees a wedgie, and casually walk into the Pit of Doom.

 

Hahahaha, now I have this image in my mind of Rand prancing past swarms of Shadowspawn ,arms swinging, a vapid smile on his face, singing "La la la la la la la", giving wedgies as he skips to the Blight.

 

 

 

That's given me an idea for a funny little story that I want to submit to the Aiel humor contest. I thought it would be best if I asked your permission to use this idea, because you first thought of it. Trust me, it's pretty funny.

[bRANDan]

I thought it would be best if I asked your permission to use this idea, because you first thought of it

 

Not my idea. aussie_ashaman123's idea. I just messed up the quote/unquote thing. But feel free to use it, I don't think aussie_ashaman123 will mind either.

[cloglord]

And Agelmar has experience from exactly how many TG?

 

What a person said two years earlier, during radically different circumstances, is pretty much irrelevant.

 

But if we are to play around with what Agelmar said in a completely different context, lets look at what he did not say...He did not say that so many soldiers would commit treason that their nations would stand empty and defenseless. Which is exactly what would happen if thousands of soldiers turned out to be traitors now.

 

Try some basic math, if you have 100k soldiers, having 10k running off is bad, but not a disaster. If you have 40-50k soldiers and 10k runs off, quite a different story.

 

He was making an observation of what he though his people would do when they were under the impression that TG was coming. Now that TG is coming why would that be different? He said he thought they would desert their posts to ride with Lan.  You seem to think that borderlanders are under the impression that they could win TG.  In my opinion the borderlanders are unfailingly fatalistic.  If they all think they are going to die anyway, then why not do it with Lan?  To what purpose would they stand to defend nations that would not survive anyway?

[Majsju]

If you fall from a cliff, and all there is to hang on to is a tuft of grass you know could not possibly carry your weight, would you not still grab on to it?

 

Had the Borderlanders been the kind of people who layed down and died at the first sign of danger, the Blight would be just outside tar Valon. Fortunatly, the Borderlanders seems to be the kind of people who just keeps going, even when all hope is gone.

 

And then, leave the country undefended, send women and children south hoping they can outrun trollocs, or stay and fight to give the women and children a real chance to actually make it? I do not even have children, and yet I am quite sure which alternative I would chose...

[anamul]

I doubt that TG will happen at the same place or a single battle. It will more likely be fought in several front in several places, within a couple of days.

 

As for Demndrad and Moridin and shadow, planning some great scheme.....well, we have schemer on the side of light as well.

 

I just would love to see, Mat coming up with one after another irritatingly effective and annoying plane against Demandred and Moridin. They might know LTT and Rand, but they do not know him very well...do they? I haven't seen any sign. Not to mention some surprise he is brewing with "Dragon thingy".

 

I think while Rand confront the DO, Mat is going to make hell in  some really tactical and crucial points. All he will need is ashaman, taking him from one place to another.

[cloglord]

If you fall from a cliff, and all there is to hang on to is a tuft of grass you know could not possibly carry your weight, would you not still grab on to it?

 

Had the Borderlanders been the kind of people who layed down and died at the first sign of danger, the Blight would be just outside tar Valon. Fortunatly, the Borderlanders seems to be the kind of people who just keeps going, even when all hope is gone.

 

And then, leave the country undefended, send women and children south hoping they can outrun trollocs, or stay and fight to give the women and children a real chance to actually make it? I do not even have children, and yet I am quite sure which alternative I would chose...

 

I never claimed that the borderlanders were the "lay down and die," type, but they are fatalistic.  They do not expect to survive the TG, and as such to what point would they defend a piece of ground that they already think is going to be over run if they are just going to die anyway?  If they die with Lan at least they have chosen the manner in which they died.  As far as the idea of a footrace between trollocs and children, you are over simplifying things.  There is a clear precedent from the end of TEotW where the Shienariens sent the women and children south.

 

Of course time will tell, I'll just go ahead and RAFO rather than argue this point any further.

[Tuon Rocks 123]

this is just an idea, but when Rand's hand gets blown off, he gets up and his gaze watery and there are black flecks floating in his vision. Could this not be the Saa from the True power via the link with Moridin. Maybe Rand was holding the True power and didn't know it. Maybe it created some sort of block between him and the tRUE Source. 2 things that could mean ths could be true. (1) I belive right before Rand meets Semirhage, Doesn't he see Moridin in his head? (2) while he is lying down, he can't move, could this be a side effect of True Power, then he finally gets the One Power in him, and he sits up and sees the black flackes, that shortly disipate. Nynaeve and Min I believe say he is fine, and Nynaeve tells him to tell her how many fingers she is holdinfg up. Rand says two, that he can see fine, even though his gaze is watery. We know that the Saa and the True power don't ubscure your vision, but we have never been told any of the side effects of the True Power, apart from the Saa and the addiction stronger than the OP.

[Juggler]

Nice idea but I don't think so, I think the black flecks and watery vision are probably more to do with a large BRIGHT ball of fire damaging his vision as it took off his hand, shock, loss of blood and bright light will cause vision problems when he took hold of the power rand distanced himself from his body, that's how he could move the same way he ignores the 2 wounds in his side.

[Tuon Rocks 123]

But what about him seeing Moridin's face before the "Battle".

[Corbett]

Tuon, there are specific posts dedicated to arguing that topic right there, i suggest you check them out.

[anamul]

I am so impatient(and I am sure some others are too) about the last book. It has been almost three years. I want the damn book out, for crying out aloud. All these suspense is making me edgy.

 

 

[Guest Dreadlord]

Ditto. But in the same breath I think it is worth Brandon Sanderson taking the time needed to get it right, so while I am impatient I think I can wait. Just.

[Tuon Rocks 123]

If you want my advice, just read the seriees over again, I just started my second read through, i'm only on the 4th chapter, and I've already spotted so many things that I've never saw before. For Instance, when we meet Thom for the first time, and he sees Moiraine and he stops performing. Because he recognizes and Aes Sedai.

And when Moiraine is talking to Mat, Rand and Elwin, and Rand feels like he would do anything to stay near her. She must have been using a form of compulsion. I also think that the spark might have already infested itself in Rand, because when-I think-Moiraine was using a form of compulsion on him, he seems to break through it-maybe cutting the flows?-when he asks her why she is in the Two Rivers, and if I recall correctly, when he asked her that, the smile slid slowly from her face before she answered.

[Tuon Rocks 123]

something I forgot to mention. If you never read TEOTW in the 2 different parts. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. seriously need to read the beginning of part 1. It has a alternate prologue about Egwene that really intro's the characters really well

 

[Mr Ares]

If you want my advice, just read the seriees over again, I just started my second read through, i'm only on the 4th chapter, and I've already spotted so many things that I've never saw before. For Instance, when we meet Thom for the first time, and he sees Moiraine and he stops performing. Because he recognizes and Aes Sedai.

And when Moiraine is talking to Mat, Rand and Elwin, and Rand feels like he would do anything to stay near her. She must have been using a form of compulsion. I also think that the spark might have already infested itself in Rand, because when-I think-Moiraine was using a form of compulsion on him, he seems to break through it-maybe cutting the flows?-when he asks her why she is in the Two Rivers, and if I recall correctly, when he asked her that, the smile slid slowly from her face before she answered.

She may have been using compulsion (she later says "After I gave you the token, the coin, and made that bonding, you should have been willing to fall in with whatever I wanted, but you resisted, questioned." EotW 52). However, when someone first starts channeling, each time they channel is accompanied by a subsequent reaction some time later, becoming closer to the time of channeling each time they do so until it is simultaneous. We see this repeatedly for Rand throughout EotW (when he refreshes Bela is followed by laughing at the Whitecloaks, for example) however I don't recall any reaction corresponding to this. Also, even if Rand was holding the Source, he doesn't need to have channeled. Men holding saidin can't be compelled with the power.

[Tuon Rocks 123]

That's not exactly what I meant. you can tell by the Warder bond with allana and rand that Male Channelers have some resistance to Saidar

[Mr Ares]

That's not exactly what I meant. you can tell by the Warder bond with allana and rand that Male Channelers have some resistance to Saidar

Then what did you mean? If Rand had cut any weave of Moiraine's he would have had a reaction to it. I don't recall any reaction, so it is unlikely that he did channel. Also, we see from a Sammael (IIRC) POV that men holding saidin can't be compelled, so we know that if Moiraine was using compulsion, it wouldn't work if he held the power. Of course, if touching the Source alone is enough to cause a reaction then one should be expected here, and thus Rand didn't. Remember, he could have broken through any attempt at compulsion if he was sufficiently strong willed.

[Asmo]

Moiraine would not be using Compulsion. She'd probably be using something much more mild, such as simple persuasion or that weave Verin used. Which is why Rand was able to resist it - Dragon Reborn or not, before they even reached the Eye I severely doubt Rand could muster anything near the amount of willpower needed to resist Moiraine's Compulsion, and if he was touching the Source he would have known. Also, being able to channel or even holding the Power does not guarantee protection from Compulsion - Graendal proves that.

[bRANDan]

I think that Moiraine just used something similar to the Warder bond. When she first gives the boys their coins she say something to the effect of "there is a bond between us now". She can trace the coins, can tell if the coins have switched hands, and as long as they have the coins they tend to fall in line with her, excepting Rand. Seems kind of like a warder bond that is centred around the coins. We've only seen the Warder bond used on people, I wonder if you could use the Warder bond on animals or non-organic items. If so, then it might just be a Warder bond placed onto coins.