Logaine - Min's Vision

[Myndrunner]

What greatness is in store for Logaine according to the visions of Min?  Will he be a king in the Fourth Age?  Is he going to become a great hero?  Is Taim perhaps a red herring planted by Robert Jordan to keep our suspicions off of Logaine being a true baddie? 

 

-Myndrnner

[Majsju]

If Logain was a badguy, I think his chances for glory in the nearest future would be extremely small...

 

The option I hope for, and that is quite possible, is that Logain leads the party that will deal with the Black Tower, and by doing so takes care of Taim. After that, Logain will be in charge of the Asha'man, and keep that position after TG. Possibly a lot of people will even think he was the one who won TG.

[Tigara]

Don't Min's visions also tie Sheriam together with him? She had almost the same viewing with Sheriam.

[aevogt]

The Sheriam viewing is "Rays of silver and blue flashed about her fiery hair, and a soft golden light; Min could not say what it meant" 

 

I don't think it necessarily speaks of future glory for her.

 

Min also saw her "bruised and battered" so maybe it was one or the other and we know that one has happened.

 

Moridin's colors are Red and Black.

 

Are any of the Chosen tied to the colors Blue and Silver.  Are those the colors of a country she will rule.  Who knows.

 

I asked this same question and still haven't found a satisfactory answer.

 

Pay close attention to AMoL for these colors as it is sure to mean something.

 

Although, I have heard the theory, not that I agree with it, that as the DO comes closer and closer to freedom, the pattern is loosening and these viewings and dreams are less likely to happen so it may be nothing.

 

Also, RJ stated that there wil be some unresolved subplots, and squeal as we will, we have to deal with it.  This could be one of them.

[Myndrunner]

Hmmm....Maybe Logaine will become the Male Amarylin Seat for the Black Tower?  It is quite possible that, should Rand perish at TG, and he probably will, Logaine could become one of many possible rulers in the next age. 

 

A neat twist would be to have Taim be the good guy and Logaine the bad guy, but I think Logaine is more a fallen man trying to redeem some dignity while Taim is biding his time to take Rand down.

 

-Goodnight Camelyn!!

[Leopoled Boothe]

WARNING:  If you are a Harry Potter fan who has not read "The Deathly Hallows" then stop here.  Harry Potter spoilers are within.  If you are just a WOT fan the proceede, there are no WOT spoilers.

 

 

 

 

 

I see it all going down like this:

 

First off the final battle of WOT will not be Rand vs Shai'tan but rather Rand vs Moridin. Remember also that one of Min's visions saw Rand as a begger.

 

I see Logain first taking care of Taim and then taking charge of the Black tower and all the loyal Asha'man.  Logain then leads the Asha'mam into the blight and onward to Shaul'Gul for a climatic battle with shadow spawn of all sorts and maybe a few Forsaken or new dread lords.  Perhaps he will even go up against forces let by Demandred.  Meanwhile Rand will make his own way to Shaol Gul where he will confront Shai'tan and ultimatly seal him back in his prision.  Unfortunatly he will be killed in the process.  There will be some wittnesses to this event (I suspect Nyneave will be one of them, I'll explain why later).  The forces of the light will then withdraw victoriously form the blight.  Logain will be seen leading the Asha'man out of the the blight and be recieved by the general populace who will be chanting "Long live the Dragon Reborn" or something to that effect.  Logain will protest but his protests will be droned out by the people's chanting.  Thus Logain will become the leader of the Black Tower and will lead thim into the foutth age, the general populace all the time believing that he is the true Dragon Reborn (afterall, as it is most the world knows the name Dragon Reborn but not necessarly the name Rand al'Thor).  Meanwhile due to his link with Moridin Rand will be able to come back from the dead (very similar to what happened in Harry Potter I know, but EotW came out seven years before the first Harry Potter book so we know that RJ came up with the ideal first).  He and Moridin will do battle in limbo, Rand will be victorious and will come back to the living world, while Moridin dies.  Rand will awake on the slopes of Shayol Gul and we will be told nothing more of Rand beyond this point.  However, in the final scene Nyneave, who will be a changed woman due to the events of TG, will see a begger with his head wrapped and only the eyes showing,  she will take pitty on him and give him a large sum of money (remember that she as been rather tight with money before) but as she walks away she will muse at how there was something very familiar about the begger's blue/grey eyes.

 

We will, of course, be left with the impression that the begger is Rand and that perhaps Nyn is begining to figure this out (hence the hook that RJ spoke of).

 

Althought it won't be stated in the books, I think by this point Rand will have had his fill of the limelight and will be quite happy to let Logain take all the credit, and to let the world believe that he is dead and to retire into the simple and quite life of a begger.

 

Whether of not Nyn will figure it out and/or go back and out Rand will be left to the imagination of the Reader.

[Myndrunner]

Althought it won't be stated in the books, I think by this point Rand will have had his fill of the limelight and will be quite happy to let Logain take all the credit, and to let the world believe that he is dead and to retire into the simple and quite life of a begger.

 

Left on the slopes of Shayol Gul believed to be dead, and he will let the world think that he is dead, until he can find a way to control the raging spirit that dwells within him. [glow=limegreen,2,300]DA-DA-DUH-DA!!![/glow]

 

Good theory....and regardless of what happens, I am sure Rand would rather Logaine get all the ticker tape than he.  By the end of TG, Rand is probably going to be so done with it all, that death might be welcome.  Nynaeve would also make sense to be central to the final battle since she has helped Rand in every major conflict in one way or another.  We know that she and Lan survive because of her Accepted Trials back in the Great Hunt.  They were clear that what happened in the third ter'angrel was not a possible future but THE future.  Since its her and Lan married and in the now prosperous land of Malkier.  Through this, we also know that Elayne is alive and well, since Lan mentions that she should go visit the Queen of Andor since they are such close friends.  He makes no mention of Rand though, just the Queen of Andor. 

 

Egwene's whole Accepted experience is a whole other topic.....

 

But, back to Logaine.  I think you are spot on with him returning from TG as the champion, perhaps even the Dragon.  I see things gearing up that way.  Logaine pops off Taim, and then leads the Black Tower to TG.  Lan rallies Shenierians under the Crane.  Mat & Moiraine return from the FINS, with or without Thom. The Perrin/Seanchen alliance will be the final piece that unites the whole land together just before TG, with a little help from Tuon.  Loial shows up with the Ogier, ala the Treefolk in LoTR.  A HUGE battle royal, but when the dust settles....Light wins!  Most characters sneak back to their own lives while Logaine becomes the hero that they write about.  Black Tower & White Tower merge into one, under Logaine and ___________!   

 

Now, about the Rand stuff....What about Min' vision of the three women standing over Rand's grave?

 

-Ringside Seat Ticket Holder for TG

[Rasta Ashaman]

But, back to Logaine.  I think you are spot on with him returning from TG as the champion, perhaps even the Dragon.

 

I've got a question re that - wasn't it mentioned somewhere, either in the blog by RJ, or implied in the books, that the story we're reading is from the 4th age? Meaning, that people still remember that Rand was the Dragon, and not Logain.

[Leopoled Boothe]

But, back to Logaine.  I think you are spot on with him returning from TG as the champion, perhaps even the Dragon.

 

I've got a question re that - wasn't it mentioned somewhere, either in the blog by RJ, or implied in the books, that the story we're reading is from the 4th age? Meaning, that people still remember that Rand was the Dragon, and not Logain.

 

 

There are alot of quotes from the fourth age inserted with in the books.  Many of them mention The Dragon, but he is never called by name, only "The Dragon."  Neither Rand al'Thor, Logian Ablar nor anyone else is specifically identifed as The Dragon.

 

This in one of the reasons that I think it will be Logain and not Rand who will go down in history as The Dragon.

[Rasta Ashaman]

There are alot of quotes from the fourth age inserted with in the books.  Many of them mention The Dragon, but he is never called by name, only "The Dragon."  Neither Rand al'Thor, Logian Ablar nor anyone else is specifically identifed as The Dragon.

 

This in one of the reasons that I think it will be Logain and not Rand who will go down in history as The Dragon.

 

I still doubt it;  especially for Cairhien, Caemlyn, Tear and Illian - people will remember (and it surely will be noted in the possible chronicles) that it was Rand al'Thor that conquered/freed/fed them; plus, there's that "al'Thor Academy" (we still have RAND Corp, after all  ;D)

[Leopoled Boothe]

There are alot of quotes from the fourth age inserted with in the books.  Many of them mention The Dragon, but he is never called by name, only "The Dragon."  Neither Rand al'Thor, Logian Ablar nor anyone else is specifically identifed as The Dragon.

 

This in one of the reasons that I think it will be Logain and not Rand who will go down in history as The Dragon.

 

I still doubt it;  especially for Cairhien, Caemlyn, Tear and Illian - people will remember (and it surely will be noted in the possible chronicles) that it was Rand al'Thor that conquered/freed/fed them; plus, there's that "al'Thor Academy" (we still have RAND Corp, after all  ;D)

 

Good point, very good point actually.  But you have to remember that the world will most likely be thrown into alot of chaos and confusion during and after TG.  Records could be lost and many of those who knew Rand personally may die.  When Logain emerges victoriously from the blight they may just decide that al'Thor was not the true Dragon afterall.  Then there is Egwene's dream about Logain stepping over Rands body to ascend a black rock.  Rands body then turns out to be a paper puppet that crumbles away.  I guess I could be way off, but to me it seems that the black rock reprsents the Black Tower and that Logain will ascend to the head of the Black tower and achieve glory while Rand's legend fades away. 

 

So I do still stand by my theory.  However, I will admit that there is one major problem that remains.  Upon rereading my post I suddenly went "GASP!!!!" "I just killed Loial!!!"  There is still the fact that Loial is the one chronicling the DR's adventures and surely he would know that the Dragon Reborn was infact Rand al'Thor and not Logain Ablar.  In order for this to work Loial world either have to die or have his book regarded as falsehood and heresy.  I would hate to see either fate befall or favorite Ogier.  Is supose a third option would be for Elder Haman to die, Loial to take over leadership of his Stedding and ultimally lead the Ogier back to their home world following TG.

[aevogt]

I've gotta hijack a little here.

 

The Ogier, Lioal included, already plan on leaving.  The only question to be decided is whether it will be before TG or after.

 

According to the Encyclopedia Website, the estimated population of each stedding is about 6,000 and there are 43 Stedding known in the West, for an estimated population, not including Seanchan where there are far more common, of roughly a quarter of a million.  Call it 125,000 males.

 

Let's say that 1 in four Ogier males decide that TG is worth fighting and go.  Untrained or not, that is better than 30,000 Ogier fighters.  That equates to a lot of dead Trollocs.  We've already seen gentle fumbling Loial kill Trollocs with prejudice.

 

I'm betting that the Ogier stay for the Last Battle but they open the BoT and leave before the dust settles. 

[Bob T Dwarf]

I think the decision whether to go or to stay will come down to whether the Stedding are where they left them after the dust settles.

 

If it becomes another case of the Longing, they'll leave.  If not, they probably stay.  Lord knows there'd be lots of work for Treesingers and Stonesingers.

[bjclinton]

If Logain was a badguy, I think his chances for glory in the nearest future would be extremely small...

 

The option I hope for, and that is quite possible, is that Logain leads the party that will deal with the Black Tower, and by doing so takes care of Taim. After that, Logain will be in charge of the Asha'man, and keep that position after TG. Possibly a lot of people will even think he was the one who won TG.

 

i agree with everything here with the exception of your last line....everyone is going to know that it was Rand Al'Thor who won TG- the Dragon Reborn....and Loial's book will be the story that will tell it for future ages.