MAFIA - Streets of NYC - GAME OVER

[loki redfern]

hehe thats early tuesday morning. nice. about 3am :P

[Alys Kinch]

thanks. i was just debating.

 

i think that sagey killed jelly.... after benny posted today, dsage just kind of gave up. or, at least, that's how i read it.

 

that said, if i change my vote anywhere, it'll be to sagey.

[Alys Kinch]

i've been asked a question in pm. i'll tell you if you ask here.

 

[DPR]

 

....It's funny that you mentioned that, because I could swear that the rules clearly state that no one is to communicate off of the thread....

 

Thank goodness for players like Alys, who follow the rules. Other players, whomever they may be, should hang their heads in shame. For getting caught trying to cheat. So sad.....

[Alys Kinch]

i love you too, wes. so why don't you ask me here? j/k. :P

[DPR]

 

Now you are confusing me.  I thought I was allowed to communicate off of the thread?

*facepalms*

AAAALLLLYYYSSSSS!

[loki redfern]

lol we all know alys is the only one alowwed to ask questions off thread now, dont we wes,  shes the one in charge :P ;) :-* ok so why is becky logically mafia and since toy has basically given up the ghost, thats two out of three condemed by your own hand  ... and your the third my dear ..just thinkin out loud like (but really why becky? i still dont see that?)

[Alys Kinch]

o.k., the answer to why you feel like singing the smurf song is that it's a loki thing to do.

 

i'll preface this by saying that seeing benny made me do a list of who was where.

 

the answer to why those seem like they could be and i'm not? answer me this. where is the logic for me to be evil? i'm... too helpful? everyone knows that that is a ploy used only when there is nothing to go on for anyone. it's a fallacy. anyone can seem too helpful regardless of their alignment. at best, it should only be used on players that are rarely helpful, not on players that are always as helpful as they can be. i am not one of the former, but i am one of the latter. find another arguement against me.

 

i think dsage killed jelly because on night one he'd have had to decide if he wanted to move and potentially reveal himself or stay stationary and take out one of his own. night one i peg dsage for the kind of person to not take that decision lightly. also, thorum, as we know, didn't do it. which only leaves the problem of it having been another mafia moving around... except dsage all but gave up right here in thread. until that point... it was only a half-baked idea.

 

as for smarmacral... he's fun. so here goes:

 

o.k. here's what i'm thinking. based on the dittie...*rolls eyes* the solo-would be is in the church because what he said about barm. also, if he's trying to solo, he likely wouldn't move until his hand was ready to be shown. the following thoughts back it up imo: barms hasn't been around, so likely didn't move during any night.  he popped in yesterday, so maybe last night was the first time he moved. the night he needed to take a kill. not to mention that we know (should know) barms would be a lock for a solo anyway... krugs is barms friend, so i could see him taking him out. that'd cover the line about barm trying to slip through the cracks. if any name is true, i'd say it was his based on the way it was added at the end. it screamed, "NOTICE ME!"

 

there's more waiting to be said about why i think the solo-killer is who i think the solo killer is. all you have to do is ask.

[Alys Kinch]

a list of those in the church (where barmacral should have been last night):

 

cairos

panda

barms

dae

loki

dj

[loki redfern]

so basically everyone is evil but you? . oh and your condeming an entire 5 players, on some very loose and shakey supposition. ok now run the whole church thing by me again,

one) it depends on that becky is evil right?

two ) please run the whole ditty verse by me again = church?, why would clues like that be left, isnt it much more likely its aluding to that verse almost being fogoten? ocams razor or whatever it is and all

three)why arnt you evil if they are, this seems to me to be the same thing as the day we lynched rhummy, only to save your own skin. you blind us all with this 'logic' and then push  us  into lynching more innocnents.

 

and what if this is all some kind of gambit, sacraficing your self to cast suspision onto innocents and away from mafia untill its to late. maybe you can explain it better to me but im just not seeing all this. all i can see at the moment is a desperate attempt to dispell the building suspicion against yourself.  (sorry i just love saying this) :P you is a lieing liar who lies and much more of a threat toy, you already played your part in precipitating a rhummy lynch, and now another 5 innocents at once your going for-

[loki redfern]

[glow=red,2,300]alys[/glow]

[Toy and Minion]

i think that sagey killed jelly.... after benny posted today, dsage just kind of gave up. or, at least, that's how i read it.

 

I think we all know that I gave up before that!  I really gave up Day 3.  I thought I was a goner.

 

toy has basically given up the ghost

 

What exactly do you mean? :-\

[Alys Kinch]

so basically everyone is evil but you? . oh and your condeming an entire 5 players, on some very loose and shakey supposition.

 

i believe that i think there is one definate, another quite possible and two who i can't decide between. the other... i don't have a clue about.

 

ok now run the whole church thing by me again,

one) it depends on that becky is evil right?

 

benny, who has the distinct plausibility to be yourself, said barms was trying to slip past his "witties" and barms was in the church. this means that if i'm right about barms being a lock for evil, our fourth killer is in the church as well. especially since if barms stayed in place for 2 nights and moved the third, he'd suddenly show up on the radar. **remember: evils would only get to see who is moving in the location they have chosen as per wes' set up.

 

please run the whole ditty verse by me again = church?, why would clues like that be left, isnt it much more likely its aluding to that verse almost being fogoten?

 

O and another one, my pretties,

To name in my little ditties;

Barmacral is Mafia, and thought to slip my witties

 

ocams razor or whatever it is and all

 

i admit that you could be right because i have put together an arguement that makes a lot of sense, but is based mainly off of wifom and metagaming.

 

but my version actually gives a semblance of an explaination how mr. solo would know what he knew. all you have is a who was targeted. i have a who and a how. without really making up anything. there is nothing implausible about it.

 

why arnt you evil if they are, this seems to me to be the same thing as the day we lynched rhummy, only to save your own skin. you blind us all with this 'logic' and then push  us  into lynching more innocnents.

 

you are supposed to tell my why i am evil, i'm not supposed to supply you with reasons that i think i would stand out for. what i am supposed to do is what i have done. i came up with reasons why two people seem like they could be evil to me.

 

i didn't lynch thorum to save myself. he kept messing up his fact with his wishes. after a time, it's suspicious.

 

i fully expect to be lynched for what i have said. i fully expect to be lynched without being given a better reason that that i was too helpful and that benny bandied my name about in his rhyme. and i fully expect the everyone to lose to a solo killer.

 

what if this is all some kind of gambit, sacraficing your self to cast suspision onto innocents and away from mafia untill its to late.

 

i suppose you won't know until you have killed me or one of them, will you?

 

now another 5 innocents at once your going for

 

again, which 5? texas coun'in' must be diff'rint than english coun'in'.

[Alys Kinch]

you gave up on living, maybe, but you didn't do so in a manner that suggested you were the killer who nabbed jelly.

 

know that the only reason i am not switching to you right at this moment is that i feel the need to nail the solo before the other mafia go down. without them, he is invincible.

[loki redfern]

meh i didnt really count the list .. but yes at a second glance, other than becky you listed five others in the church, but its nice that once i happend to conveniently vote for you i become the prime suspect for beny .

 

ok, i think your purpously reading far to much into the witties thing, if the 'warning' or snitching or whatever you want to call it  was all in one post then yes i might concede you could have a point on that, but its in a seperate post, which means its far far more likely to have been missed out of the original and that must have beenwith the words reflecting that, rather than some cunningly hidden clue there for scooby dooby kinch to find. this is a mafia game not a cartoon (twould be easier on the sences if it were). again i do love have you just plucked my name out of the luminefeous ether there. if you wish to check you may also find i was not here on the first night and as,

So, even if it is not your turn to night kill, you still have to pm the mod each night with the location you wish to hang out in. You will be sent a list of players currently at that hang-out. If it is not the permanent location...

the above is the case i would not have benifited form the  radar effect, so one or more likley both of those wild theories is thence disproven.

 

oh any yes your theories work fine. however you can swap beckys and toys nights into any other night to also give plausible working modles for the night kills they could even be replaced with other to give even more. thus as GQ would probably like to point out at this point you have created a strawman which is in your own vested intrest to promote.

 

rhummy always messes up like that, and we have lynched him so many times for it its i find it hard to believe you accidentally forgot all this and lynched away

 

my reasons that you are evil are the posts after the beny incident, and you involvement with toy

 

you seem to be clutching at straws now your ship is sinking alys and you know it not because your being to helpful but because you are probably mafia. i dont expect to by lynched because i am innocent

 

oh and the gamibit thing ..you always need a crazy theory when denouncing with logic. other wise the goblins will rip of your legs and feed them to humphrey bogarts. thats what this mafia game is really about

[Moghedian]

Oh yay, we're into the long explanations part... ::) Shame no one suspects me though... :-\

[Alys Kinch]

didnt really count the list .. but yes at a second glance, other than becky you listed five others in the church, but its nice that once i happend to conveniently vote for you i become the prime suspect for beny .

 

the list isn't who i suspect. it's who was in the church with barms.

 

and you were my suspect for benny before the first time i spoke to you today. the other one is dae.  but i would say the rhyme and pirate speak made proper makes you a better suspect than he. the coherence makes him a better suspect than you. but i know you can be 100% effectively coherent and disguised. yet, i can't decide.

 

you see, i can eliminate all the others from that.

 

cairos and panda really haven't been around, so far as i can tell. at this point, i'm totally discounting them.

 

then there was dae and dj. it could just be me, but i don't think it was dj. he wasn't all over the place like dae was. nor would he be. he's well thought out, and were this him, i think he'd hold his hand until the end when the win was all but in hand. it's not right now. he's sitting in the church (i think, as opposed to moving around) with at least four other people (of 6) to kill at hand. he'd not need to move from his place unless there was a lynch or another double night kill in his haunt. he'd stay secret. the dj i know, would have seen this. so i highly doubt it's him. he's third on my list.

 

yes i might concede you could have a point on that, but its in a seperate post, which means its far far more likely to have been missed out of the original

 

we are going to have to agree to disagree here. i think that it being in it's own separate post calls more attention to it. benny could have copy/pasted wrong or what have you... but i don't think that's the case. i think he didn't finish his research (comparing who's where lists) until a few moments later. when he noticed barms wasn't where he should have been.

 

wes, clarification. if an evil fails to meet deadline and submit a place to move, do they merely get the list from their normal locale or do they get nothing?

 

personally, i'd assume that's part of why we chose places. i'd say they get the list.

 

you can swap beckys and toys nights into any other night to also give plausible working modles for the night kills they could even be replaced with other to give even more

 

i don't see how that works.... maybe you could help me? if barms killed jelly, he'd have been detectable sooner. see, changing the order changes how my reasoning would work out. and you might need the definition of a strawman...( you know i love you, but... that's not what a strawman is)

 

my reasons that you are evil are the posts after the beny incident, and you involvement with toy

 

those being which posts? and my saying a bad reason was a bad reason. i see. so i should have applauded bad reasoning?  at that time, there could have been little to no connection between anyone. so making one up... a one in five chance of being in the right location to know each other. talya would have had a choice of 5 places to be the same as dsage. it gets worse if you thought they were both setting it up as a fake arguement. and... i can't remember if the arguement started day one or day two... but if it was day one... it's worse still.

 

you seem to be clutching at straws now your ship is sinking alys and you know it not because your being to helpful but because you are probably mafia. i dont expect to by lynched because i am innocent

 

i'm not clutching. i'm trying to come up with a plausible line of events. it's better than others have done.

 

and i'm positively glad that someone gets the benefit of not having to be worried that if something comes out wrong they won't be lynched or night killed. i've not had that luxury for quite sometime. be it innocent as can be or evil as can be. enjoy it while it lasts.

 

 

so... it's crazy to suggest that killers would play with a solo win idea? isn't the whole idea to chose between winning together or winning alone? the innocents just seem to have been fodder with little chance of winning from the start.

 

it's crazy that killers would lay low to avoid being seen by a solo wanna-be?

 

what part exactly is it that's crazy? or is it only crazy because you disagree?

[Alys Kinch]

A straw man argument can be set up in several ways, including:

 

-Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent's position and then refuting it, thus giving the appearance that the opponent's actual position has been refuted.[1]

 

-Quoting an opponent's words out of context -- i.e., choosing quotations that are not representative of the opponent's actual intentions (see contextomy and quote mining).[2]

 

-Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender and then refuting that person's arguments, thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position, and thus the position itself, has been defeated.[1]

 

-Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs that are criticized, such that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.

 

-Oversimplifying an opponent's argument, then attacking the simplified version.

 

 

i have done none of these things.

[loki redfern]

meh you knew what i mean, twas near as damn it. your makeing the assumption at your version is the only correct way things can happen and then basing all further assumptions on that one. (and isnt refuting that this was infact a strawman and just bad reasoning or whatever (but it doesnt sound as good and GQ probably would still call it that meby so ner :P) kinda creating a strawman, your concentrating that i misnamed what you were doing rather than the actual agrument :P and its three years since i did crit thinking and i never did pay much attention ...but yeh sorry wasw perhaps kinda wrong)

 

 

um .. what pirate speak, and if were going to agrue things like that may i remind you that one, i can spell properly and not like an american (colour not color) and i can be coherant over short distanced ..but i thing a whole poem is a bit beond me and its a well known fact i that im not an english fan. and pirate speak..hun were all here because of WoT, and with Balye Doman about im sure i dont have the monopoly on any pirate speak being bandied about,

and have you ever stoped to consider word construction and use a due to the constrainnts or folloing the rhyme perhaps? im sure that its posible some of the rest of us here arnt as perfect poets as you seem to make out.

... and there are no elipsis :(

oh, and i recon beny is a woman. if were doing it like this. read the verse condeming you

 

and look! your making my go all woffely mad

 

(oh and moggy ..i said i supected you before ..if thats any consolation :-* )

 

and my point was that you were agueing too hard,, and then when i started pointing out some flaws in this we got drawn into this whole thing and you out and acused me of being mafia, how convienient of you to think that from the start but only say that until then. very convienient.

 

and again: yes your version of events could be the one. but its one of hundreds of difernt ways this could go. what stops becky just have been laying low, he could have left his night kills in advance, for nights one, two or three. he could be innocent. but on the one version that suports your purposes, and then you have heaped all your orther assum[ptions on this one becky and toy being evil and killling on nights 3 and 1 respectivly . its like building a pyramid of elephants on a house of cards. and its all starting to tumble down.

and i never said it was crazy, its just one of so many other possible ways it could happen

 

 

and most importantly, you have been named as mafia, why should we trust you? you seem to be way over playing the sympathy card, im almost waiting for you to pretend to give up and vote for yourself.

 

this is like the toy thing your trying to not actually say what you mean, but screaming it beween the lines, just like with toy, you dissmissed all other arguments and then refused then and went on to put rhummy up for a vote, but didnt vote yourself untill after a bandwagon had started. that time you were saying toy was innoncent, but you never said it, because you didnt want to put your self on the line, and this time your saying your innocent but your doing it by puting the emphasis off you. and if you think it was me why are you still voting becky? rather like the rhummy vote again ..strating a bandwagon without voting. there is an easy way to sort all this out, if we lynch you then we see whether benny is telling the truth and then, its only her to find, and also we find out if your evil or not. if your not then you have probaly given us enough information to get three mafia, if your are evil, then your trying to mislead us and we can get on with lynching toy and beciding on becky. hence i think lynching you is the best course of action either way.

[Daetirion]

(Just to inform Mod and other players, back from LOA for today, tommorrow, then on LOA again till Weds Night, then on LOA till Sunday)

 

And why did ya post such long explanations? Gonna take me forever to get through that lot  :o

[DPR]

 

......just under 34 hours to go until the deadline......

[Alys Kinch]

loki babe, you know, i am not saying my way is the only way. i am saying my way makes more sense of the whole that anything you have provided. 'tis not a strawman to connect some dots to see a picture, even if that picture is wrong.

 

what pirate speak, and if were going to agrue things like that may i remind you that one, i can spell properly and not like an american (colour not color) and i can be coherant over short distanced ..but i thing a whole poem is a bit beond me and its a well known fact i that im not an english fan.

 

lol, i've seen you effectively disguise yourself through some mid-length posting to stay hidden in a mafia game. you had alot of people fooled for a few days. but perhaps you do not remember playing with the mafia alts. asmodean was it?

 

have you ever stoped to consider word construction and use a due to the constrainnts or folloing the rhyme perhaps? im sure that its posible some of the rest of us here arnt as perfect poets as you seem to make out.

 

i don't know who in this game is a poet. it matters not. anyone could have gotten help constructing a simple poem like that.

 

and my point was that you were agueing too hard,, and then when i started pointing out some flaws in this we got drawn into this whole thing and you out and acused me of being mafia, how convienient of you to think that from the start but only say that until then. very convienient.

 

when someone asks questions of me, i assume they are seeking to understand what i think. i don't think i am arguing too hard, i think i am trying to explain what you ask.

 

as for when i shared my loki may be benny... i'm not so certain it matters.  you are arguing so hard about this that... it's making me suspect you more. though i still can't get this niggling doubt that it's dae out of my head.

 

and, when should i say i think you are benny? as soon as it hits my brain? why would i do that? i've been accused of being too helpful, so why should i be helpful rather than reticent? hold my cards until a more opportune time?

 

and most importantly, you have been named as mafia, why should we trust you? you seem to be way over playing the sympathy card, im almost waiting for you to pretend to give up and vote for yourself.

 

i'd never vote for my self barring it being a condition of a special win. and i'd never tell you to trust me. it is the nature of the game that you cannot. again, i expect to be killed, but i'll always go down fighting. always. i'm too pragmatic to go for sympathy when i know sympathy leads to a quick end.

 

you dissmissed all other arguments and then refused then and went on to put rhummy up for a vote, but didnt vote yourself untill after a bandwagon had started.

 

the other arguments had crap logic and so did the thorum vote until that point where he screwed up yet again. i'll not explain this again. and yes, before someone asks, i do think that getting rid of a player that screws up too much, innocent or evil, can be beneficial to an innocent team win.

 

if you think it was me why are you still voting becky?

 

there is still doubt about you, but smarmacral? him, i am nearly positive about.

 

if we lynch you then we see whether benny is telling the truth and then, its only her to find,

 

i doubt that you will find the ghost in the darkness without the mafia participating. i don't like trusting the mafia, but... it could be better than a blind shot in the dark. not that saying that helps my case. nor does saying that mean that people will see the logic of it. i'm assuming it'll be the opposite of that.  knowing that i am about to die means that i can say what ever i feel needs to be said.

 

still, if you don't find benny first, i think you are all dead as well.

[DPR]

 

Hmmmm. I'm getting bored because not everyone is posting often enough. *cradles face in hand and taps cheek with finger*

 

I may have to start punishing those who do not post or report loa's. I think a little mod-killing might be in order.

 

If you're around but have not posted recently, sound-off. We'll find out who is paying attention and who is not..... 

[Naeann]

Delete this if you have to DPR.. but this SUCKS!  I'm STILL keeping up with the game.. and I was killed.  Kinda makes me mad at those of you who are still going and yet not even checking the game. :P  GAH!

[Alys Kinch]

aye, 'tis why i asked you to do a call and response days ago.