Gholam

[Guest durram laddel cham]

Two things about gholams

 

1. Can true power weaves hit them?

2. Just a thought, can gholams be killed by walking through a gateway? We know shadowspan is killed when they walk through gateways, but do they also effect gholams or is the weave destroyed?

[Guest leebarr]

we do not know yet

[trakand_01]

1. Are you meaning True Power in the sense that, Moridin uses it?

2. Do you mean a Gateway, as in entrance to the Ways, or a gateway opened when Travelling?

[Guest durram laddel cham]

I'm sorry I wasn't clear

 

1. yes I mean Moridin TP

2. yes a gateway as in Travelling

 

And I'm not asking if it has been in the books yet, but just what you guys think.

[trakand_01]

I dont really understand much about what Gholams are, only what they do - the shapeshifter effect thing. I dont know how they were made, but I understand that the one power can't touch them. What is Mat's medallion made of? If that is made with the True Power then I would say yes, it can touch them but i'm not sure.

 

With reference ot the gateways, I think no. I dont think that gholams will be able to use gateways, i dont know why, it's just a hunch. But on the other hand, whichever forsaken made them, it seems a bit shortsighted to make them unable to use gateways.

[JenLenaMom]

I recommend if you want to know everything you never thought ot ask about Gholams, jump over to the structured discussion page and read the 14 pages on the critters thread, alot of it is about the gholam.

[trakand_01]

Cool thanks. To be honest i've ventured onto the structured discussion threads several times but the 'Dos and Donts Sticky' scared me so much I came out without posting!

[aevogt]

A gholam isn't really a shapeshifter in that it can alter it's form.  It simply has no bones so it moves in a fluid manner and can compress and elongate it's general form. 

 

Think along the lines of Reed Richards or Elastigirl (from my two of nieces favorite films)

 

I was thnking about something else as well.

 

We know that lightning is the product of a weave and not an actual weave itself, evidenced by Mat's death at the end of TFoH despite his anti OP ter'angreal.  Wouldn't lightning be just as effective against the Gholam.

 

Go on you can say it  "TOO EASY!"

[Shoulderthumper]

Could someone point me in the direction of where it was shown that shadowspawn die if passed through a traveling gateway?

 

I know Rand killed many in that manner, but I thought it was a special weave. I would just like to clear this up for myself.

[Jehaine]

I believe Gholam were made in much the same manner as Mat's medallion. When the two touched, it basically ended up with the two fields trying to cancel each other out. The Gholam's field was apparently weaker, and he got burned because the medallion was then trying to cancel the magic keeping him alive (and in one piece) out.

 

Following along these lines, everything that affects Mat as long as he wears the medallion (using the OP to throw items, dump a mountain on him etc.), would be effective against the Gholam as well by extension.

 

It's kind of weird trying to use scifi forcefields in a WoT discussion, but it's the best example i can think of ^^;

[aevogt]

Could someone point me in the direction of where it was shown that shadowspawn die if passed through a traveling gateway?

 

I know Rand killed many in that manner, but I thought it was a special weave. I would just like to clear this up for myself.

 

Rand says in KoD chaper 19

 

"Shadowspawn cannot survive passing through a gateway." which was almost certainly a LTT memory surfacing when LTT seized the Power from Rand.

[Shoulderthumper]

Thanks. I remember this now that you mention it. One of those things I h=guess that just slipped from my memory.

[Saidar]

I believe Gholam were made in much the same manner as Mat's medallion. When the two touched, it basically ended up with the two fields trying to cancel each other out. The Gholam's field was apparently weaker, and he got burned because the medallion was then trying to cancel the magic keeping him alive (and in one piece) out.

 

Following along these lines, everything that affects Mat as long as he wears the medallion (using the OP to throw items, dump a mountain on him etc.), would be effective against the Gholam as well by extension.

 

It's kind of weird trying to use scifi forcefields in a WoT discussion, but it's the best example i can think of ^^;

 

I don't think trowing items and dumping a mountain against/on a Gholam would be very effective... They fougth against him and slash and poked him with swords and stuff on him and he didn't die, he laughed...

[Jehaine]

*nods* Yeah, was thinking more along the lines of immobilisation. No matter how thin and/or small they can make themselves, it takes time to squirm out from under a mountain.

 

Also, the point of mentioning thrown items was to bring up indirect damage. For example, you turn the floor into lava with the OP, and the lava itself is what would be doing the damage without being cast directly on the Gholam (which would indeed be useless).

[Corbett]

I thought that shadowspawn could pass through normal gateways. Otherwise wouldnt it have been very hard to transport shadowspawn in the War of Power. In that quote i believe he was refering to the deathgate gateway rather than a regular one because the weave slightly different.

[Generic Aelfinn #2]

nope.  they can't pass through gateways period.  armies of shadowspawn were not transported via gateways in the WoP.  the difference in the gateway and deathgate weaves is a result of the latter opening to different locations.  i imagine that made it effective vs darkfriend armies as well;  humans that weren't cut apart by the deathgate itself were teleported to random places.

[algspkr]

Two things about gholams

 

1. Can true power weaves hit them?

No idea.

2. Just a thought, can gholams be killed by walking through a gateway? We know shadowspan is killed when they walk through gateways, but do they also effect gholams or is the weave destroyed?

I would guess that this is one of the few methods of killing them.  They behave with the power in a manner similar to Mat with his medalian, and Mat has taken his medalian through at least four gateways.

nope.  they can't pass through gateways period.  armies of shadowspawn were not transported via gateways in the WoP.  the difference in the gateway and deathgate weaves is a result of the latter opening to different locations.  i imagine that made it effective vs darkfriend armies as well;  humans that weren't cut apart by the deathgate itself were teleported to random places.

After the deathgate battle Rand specifically said that shadow spawn died upon entering any gateway, not just death gates.

[Corbett]

does anyone know then how the shadowspawn armies were transported in the WoP. i know that in the begining they would have used sho wings and such, but i think that in one of the aiel memories it talked about there not being enough closer to the end. any ideas?

 

[aevogt]

Shadowspawn were transported the old fashioned way.  Probably mass transport similar to truck convoy or rail, which when filled with Shadowspawn would have closely resembled rail systems around today.

 

I believe that the Sho Wings required a mix of Saidin and Saidar and would probably no longer work reliably once Saidin was tainted.

 

 

[Generic Aelfinn #2]

saidin's taint had nothing to do with the 'disappearance' of sho-wings(and other vehicles).  they were lost simply because of the mass industrial devastation and the damage done to the standing flows which powered(?) them.

[aussie_ashaman123]

Shadowspawn were transported the old fashioned way.  Probably mass transport similar to truck convoy or rail, which when filled with Shadowspawn would have closely resembled rail systems around today.

 

Hmmmm, what would a trolloc APC look like?

[Juggler]

Surely during the war of power shadowspawn would have moved via portal stones.

 

OK if a gholam can walk through a gateway, what about opening a gateway where one is stood? or closing a gateway when one is half through that would chop it right up, especially if it was a gateway to T'A'R so each half was in, what is essentially, a different world.

[algspkr]

Surely during the war of power shadowspawn would have moved via portal stones.

 

OK if a gholam can walk through a gateway, what about opening a gateway where one is stood? or closing a gateway when one is half through that would chop it right up, especially if it was a gateway to T'A'R so each half was in, what is essentially, a different world.

Closing a gateway on a gholam would acomplish nothing, except possibly making the corpse a tab bit messy.  As for opening a gateway on top of the golam, I am prety sure that would not work.  The golam disrupts weaves, and based on the fact that Mat can enter them and their description when opening I would guess that the weves of a gateway are at the edges.

[Alexius]

 

 

We know that lightning is the product of a weave and not an actual weave itself, evidenced by Mat's death at the end of TFoH despite his anti OP ter'angreal.  Wouldn't lightning be just as effective against the Gholam.

 

Go on you can say it  "TOO EASY!"

Mat's medallion fails to protect him from the lightning because it only protects him against the effects of saidar. The lightning was called by Rahvin, channeling saidin.

[Kadere]

 

Mat's medallion fails to protect him from the lightning because it only protects him against the effects of saidar. The lightning was called by Rahvin, channeling saidin.

 

Wrong, it protects against both Saidin and Saidar. The lightning killed him because it was a product of Saidin, not Saidin itself. It's like if you picked up a rock with Saidar and through it at Mat it would break his face, if you used Saidar on Mat to bash his head against a rock, it wouldn't work. It's 100% proven that the medallion blocks Saidin in LoC when he dances with Aran'gar and she channels at him, and his medallion turns cold.