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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Does Rand lose it in TDR?


Farslayer
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One chapter a group of "merchants" approach him and his campsite. Before they can really do / say anything he rushes the leader, who is female, (which btw I am confused because of his issues with killing females, so much so he couldn't bring himself to kill a FORSAKEN female), kills them all and makes them kneel to him as the Dragon Reborn. Than he doesn't even recall the leader being female, but sees that all the bodies are male.

 

This whole scene just oozes madness, so was this one of the first real moments that the madness from the taint takes him?

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Guest Dreadlord

Thats what I thought when I read it. Im sure he thinks they are Darkfriends (whether they are or not I cant remember) and even after killing them he doesnt realise what hes doing until their bodies are kneeling as if worshipping him. Yes, definitely the taint. Its abot like when Rand strikes at the Seanchan with Callandor and he means to strike with lightening, he ends up shooting lightening in all directions, killing/injuring half his own men. Its a good bit that, he really gets on his high horse. "You cannot strike at me! I am the Dragon Reborn!"

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I am not sure, but I think it has been said somewhere that those were really Darkfriends after his hide.

 

In any case that's how Rand saw it. The kneeling bit is what made me think he was really losing it, but it's not just that; from the moment he left that camp after the attack his manners were... off, to say the least.

 

But I cannot pin that just to the taint. I believe Callandor was driving him insane, he was kinda obsessed with reaching it (to end the whole thing), and I think a certain Forsaken was messing with his dreams, his mind.

 

The whole combination is enough to drive anyone crazy. Rand surely looked it throughout the book, and especially that part.

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I am not sure, but I think it has been said somewhere that those were really Darkfriends after his hide.

 

There was a Gray Man.

 

He kills them all, makes them kneel, and then thinks to himself, 'That's strange, I thought there were only 10, who's this plainclothed, unmemorable guy with a knife? Hmm. Oh well, the female leader's foot got caught in this stirrup, I guess I'll steal her horse!'

 

 

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Guest Blood Requiem

The whole 11th person thing leads me to believe they were darkfriends.  And as far as Rand killing a woman, he was kinda nutty from the stress of being forced into believing he was the DR and being hounded by the Shadow on his way to the Stone to prove whether or not he was the DR in my opinion.

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I'm fairly certain that RJ confirmed that the eleventh man was a gray man, and that they were all DFs.

He has.  Either in the question of the week or on his blog.  Not certain which one.

 

If I'm not mistaken, the "un-named merchant women" is on his list too. He mentions it in one of the later books.

 

Yes she is.  Just because she was a Darkfriend doesn't make a difference to him.  In his mind she is still a woman who died because of his actions.  We see a similar thing after Dumai's Wells with the Shaido Maidens also making it on the list.

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I don't think this was madness from the taint, but more along the lines of general craziness from being constantly stalked.  He had people after him - stalking him - left and right and Ishy was coming to him in his dreams pretending to be different people he knew.  It was as if everyone was after him and knew who is was, so he became a little paranoid - but his paranoia was definately justified - everyone was after him (even the good guys were trying to find him).  He was being hunted down and just snapped a bit. 

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We see a similar thing after Dumai's Wells with the Shaido Maidens also making it on the list.

 

I don't think so.  There are Shaido maidens on the mental death list but those were the ones that came with Nandera to rescue him.  When he was picking through the dead, Amys pointed out maidens that weren't part of the rescue party, recognized buy the cut of their coats and lack of an arm band, and they were left to rot, unnamed, with the rest of the Shaido.

 

At least that's how I read it.  Otherwise, I would think the list would not have 151 names, it would have a couple hundred "Anonymous Shaido Maiden" tacked onto the end.

 

 

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We see a similar thing after Dumai's Wells with the Shaido Maidens also making it on the list.

 

I don't think so.  There are Shaido maidens on the mental death list but those were the ones that came with Nandera to rescue him.  When he was picking through the dead, Amys pointed out maidens that weren't part of the rescue party, recognized buy the cut of their coats and lack of an arm band, and they were left to rot, unnamed, with the rest of the Shaido.

 

At least that's how I read it.  Otherwise, I would think the list would not have 151 names, it would have a couple hundred "Anonymous Shaido Maiden" tacked onto the end.

 

 

 

I agree. The Shaido Maidens would not have made it onto the list, and that is how I understood the passage too. I think later on when he was more coherent, Rand added this women to the list-I think I remember him saying something about two nameless women on the list-but at this point he is acting on instinct. I had a problem with this passage(the TDR one) myself, but I realized the Gray Man angle was right. Either they were Dark Friends(though I think it unlikely) or Rand sensed the Gray Man(much more likely, methinks) and thought the threat was coming from the merchant, getting the Gray Man in the process. No, I don't think he was insane, but he was definitely not very rational.

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I don't think this was madness from the taint, but more along the lines of general craziness from being constantly stalked.  He had people after him - stalking him - left and right and Ishy was coming to him in his dreams pretending to be different people he knew.  It was as if everyone was after him and knew who is was, so he became a little paranoid - but his paranoia was definately justified - everyone was after him (even the good guys were trying to find him).  He was being hunted down and just snapped a bit. 

 

 

lets not forget he was seriously sleep deprived at the time as well. Combined with the rest yeah he was a little off his nut but it was not the taint as much as the rest. We see in The Shadow Rising he's alot more sane and controled than in TDR. A good nights sleep will do that. hehe

 

 

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