Final Fantasy

[Emperor]

???

What do all these abbreviations mean?

 

Nothing.  They are a test to see how much of a nerd you are.  You passed!

[SinisterDeath]

???

What do all these abbreviations mean?

 

FF Final Fantasy

I-V-X = roman numerals, you should know these. Each one = a different FF game #.

 

L2 lineage 2 -The ULTIMATE MMORPG 'asian' Grind game.

EQ EverQuest

RPG role playing game

JRPG Japanese Role Playing Game

MMORPG Massive Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game.

[Guest Far Dareis Mai]

A) PC Gameplay that was designed for the PS2,

B) Killing bunnies for 3 months

C) Gold Selling bots (plagued in almost all mmorpgs now)

D) Common problems found in all mmorpgs that FF11 is no exception to, if not, just as many problems...

 

A: I actually play it on pc, so I have no opinion there.

B: Completely false, unless you are really, really bad.

C: As you said, you get this at all MMO's, though SE has really cracked down on this, and they are quite scarce on all of the servers (going rate is almost $250 per million gil--as opposed to the $10 per million only a year ago). The FF economy has never been better.

D: Server issues and such don't really have anything to do with the actual game itself. In fact, FF is much better than many other MMO's, because you never have to wait to access your server. I've had to wait sometimes an hour to play WoW. (And though this is purely opinion, FF is superior to WoW, and EQ--both of which I've played at length.) The storyline, the graphics, the diverse way of playing, the amazing jobs that they've brought back from past games (scholar, etc.), offers so much more than some of the other FF games. You are speaking to a die hard fan here, you'll never sway me, and I'll debate about this until I'm blue in the face. ;)

 

The fact that it involves many players doesn't take away from the fact that it is an RPG, and if you want to get technical, the term RPG comes from the original Roleplaying games like Dungeons and Dragons, which involve many players adding extra dimension into the game. As an MMO, FF11 fits that bill closer than any of the others. If your big beef with it being so terrible is something so subjective as 'classification' (notwithstanding your very debatable opinions listed), then that's too bad. I'm sure you are generalizing by the 'standard norm' for video game console RPG's blah blah blah. ;) It seems you have a very rigid standard of what you consider to be quality games anyway. With the exception of FF8 (the ONLY real FF game to actually sully the FF name--if any do), I've found all of the FF games in some way enjoyable. The only reason I could see justifying 11 such a low rank, is because it might be harder for younger people to pay the monthly fee.

 

Again, in reference to the whole 'kiddy' perspective for FF9, that is really just a matter of taste. I didn't think the Garnet face model was any more 'kiddy' looking than Aeris. In fact, I always sort of thought Garnet resembled Tifa. Zidane was a bit contrary, but I think they explained that well in the storyline. I thought it was a lot more fun loving than perhaps the emo seriousness of 7, and again--I can't even justify anything about 8, so I'll leave that out entirely. It certainly doesn't make it bad, or any less FF---which boasts of having a different story each time, it just makes it different and that's fine with me. :P  

 

 

[Whitestar]

I loved the "Kiddy" graphics of FFIX.  It gave me the nice nostalgia feeling of FFI.  Especially with the Black Mage running around.  It was awsome.  BTW I'll give you credit for replaying FFVIII.  That game was horrible.  The graphics were extremely nice, but the game play was boring.  Worse off was the magic system where storeing magic boosted your stats.  I never wanted to use any of my good spells else my other stats would drop and I'd have to go steal more.

[Haxorsist]

Well, I heard from someone (*cough*Far*cough*) that FFXI consumes your soul and keep it as a slave so that it can play sick games with it, which is kinda ironic considering that FFXI is a game...

[SinisterDeath]

A: I actually play it on pc, so I have no opinion there.

The gameplay (menu) was completely designed for the ps2. Its obvious, its even Easier to play the game with a ps2-esque controller. ;)

 

B: Completely false, unless you are really, really bad.

Not entirely false, but highly exagerated... I killed so many bunnies... It may as well have been 3 months... It felt like it.

 

C: As you said, you get this at all MMO's, though SE has really cracked down on this, and they are quite scarce on all of the servers (going rate is almost $250 per million gil--as opposed to the $10 per million only a year ago). The FF economy has never been better.

 

If this is true, I might have to look into it a bit more, but I was sure the inflation was never fixed. Inflation really, really screws over new players.

 

D: Server issues and such don't really have anything to do with the actual game itself. In fact, FF is much better than many other MMO's, because you never have to wait to access your server. I've had to wait sometimes an hour to play WoW. (And though this is purely opinion, FF is superior to WoW, and EQ--both of which I've played at length.) The storyline, the graphics, the diverse way of playing, the amazing jobs that they've brought back from past games (scholar, etc.), offers so much more than some of the other FF games. You are speaking to a die hard fan here, you'll never sway me, and I'll debate about this until I'm blue in the face. ;)

 

I never had to wait an hour to get onto my wow server, you shouldn't have picked the first one on the top of the list. ;)

 

The only reason I could see justifying 11 such a low rank, is because it might be harder for younger people to pay the monthly fee.

We were talking about generalizations earlyer, which is exactly what you have just done... You assume, because I am younger then you, I'm like many of the younger people you have met, and complain about the fee. I don't. I actually ilke it, It weeds out the 'young immature' people, you see in games like Halo or counter-strike... those drasted '12 year olds with squeaky voices'.

 

Again, in reference to the whole 'kiddy' perspective for FF9, that is really just a matter of taste. I didn't think the Garnet face model was any more 'kiddy' looking than Aeris. In fact, I always sort of thought Garnet resembled Tifa. Zidane was a bit contrary, but I think they explained that well in the storyline. I thought it was a lot more fun loving than perhaps the emo seriousness of 7, and again--I can't even justify anything about 8, so I'll leave that out entirely. It certainly doesn't make it bad, or any less FF---which boasts of having a different story each time, it just makes it different and that's fine with me. :P 

 

Its obviously a matter of taste. When FF7 came out, those graphics weren't 'kiddy' but 'stunningly awesome'. FF8 got better, then they went 'kiddy'. The story & characters came off as kiddy, and it detracted the entire game... I still haevn't played kingdom hearts all the way through because of this...

[Quatilina]

Wow I just..

 

To start I am a die-hard FF fan. I have been since I was 8-years-old. I've played most of them that were released in US. I would recommend starting with 6 or 7 if you want to get into the series. Those two games are both very good game-play and story-wise. They also have all the same themes you will see through-out the series. I haven't played twelve, but it seems interesting enough you can start there if you feel like it.

 

If I was to rate my favorites I'd say:

 

FFVI

FFIV

FFVII

FFT

FFV

FFXI

FFX

FFIX

FFX-2

 

As for the beef about FFXI, I would not recommend playing it unless you have played MMORPGs before. FFXI is not an easy MMORPG by any means. If you were looking at getting into the MMORPG realm I would recommend World of Warcraft (WoW). WoW is easy to get into, and its fairly balanced. FFXI is an MMORPG that requires a lot of time commitment because you can do very little by yourself.

 

As for the bunnies thing.. man. I'm going to guess you started in San 'd Oria. But honestly you stop fighting bunnies by levels 10-12. Crabs on the other hand you fought 1-75 it felt like until the expansion ToAU came out.  ::) Yes they have cracked down on the RMT now. However the RMT is a battle SE is fighting and it seems like it will never stop.

[SinisterDeath]

As for the bunnies thing.. man. I'm going to guess you started in San 'd Oria. But honestly you stop fighting bunnies by levels 10-12.

 

I guess both you and FDM just aren't familiar with my joking ways. I have a tendency to exagerate something to poke at the funnyness behind it, that being, the Bunnies.

It may only be a week of bunny grinding, but it sure feels like a month. ;)

 

Iterestingly enough, I do have something about Bunnies, that when I played, you almost had to grind on bunnies to lvl 20. ;)

 

Why you ask?

When I started, everyone was working on there main character, getting up to that 40+ range. (Perhaps even up to there 60s?)

But, also, at that time there were a bunch of people creating alts or just working on there 2nd job, (or 3rd, or 4th. :P)

So, while it wasn't nearly as chaotic at launch, there were enough people around who knew the ropes (compared to those who didn't) that no one was grouping with anyone they didn't already know (as when they went to work on a lower lvl job, they'd be joined with there friends they got during 1-40 or there various guild members and friends.)

So finding a group at that time, was very, very difficult, Or by the time I got there, the group disbanded 20 minutes later. (ARG!)

So, while 'grinding' wabbits, as everything else I could fight, was highly contested, everyone trying to find the nearest mob to kill to gain exp, I actualy found that I was leveling faster on bunnies, even though, they were several levels under me. The reason you ask? They had a higher respawn rate, and a lower 'player kill rate'. Meaning I could run about 5 yards between wabit to wabit, and level faster, then running 200 yards, between 'whatever and whatever' and level slower.

Or If I could find a group, I could go to that desert place, hit 2 buttons, and level up much, much faster. :P

(I basically remember killing, Wabits, Ocrs, and something in a desert.)

[Quatilina]

Well I don't know you so of course not.  ;) Joking, noted. *nodnod* I was joking myself about the crabs.. but the truth of the "Robber Crab" fighting.. is what 52-60? God those levels suck.

 

Honestly right now going back to with nothing FFXI would suck. There are even less people at the lower levels unless they are one of the newer jobs. Before the recent expansion release the dunes was bare.. you had to solo to 20 and grab a party in Qufim.

 

SE has been changing things though they realize that they need to change it. The game isn't pulling in newer players as much as it used to. (Making less then 6 parties viable - I've duo-ed and trio-ed a lot and it did not involve a BST.)

 

Still though for first MMORPG - WoW. It's balanced, it's easy to pick up, just get yourself on a medium pop server and you're good to go!

[OzzieAlThor]

Most people prefer a liniear kind of story then something like Oblivion in America.

 

That being said if a game is done well enough, it doesn't matter whether it follows "conventions" of the genre it's in. Oblivion is popular because it's different and expertly made, not just because "it's open ended and americans only like that kind of stuff".

 

There's an entire genreation of American men who will tell you the best RPG they have ever played is FF7. Not exactly Oblivion or WoW style there.

 

Then there is my generation who scoffs at them and let's them know that FF6 had far superior gameplay.  :D

[reyler]

I guess it IS just a matter of taste, but I just don't get how a semi-cartoony cg character is any less valid than the sixteen pixel sprites running around in FF6 and prior. And for the record, ignoring art styles, Zell was way more of a cartoon than anyone in FF9 (with the possible exception of Steiner - but Steiner is TEH AWSOM)

 

Me, I enjoy the more dynamic sorts of RPG. Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana & Seiken Densetsu, Super Mario RPG... those are the ones that stuck with me most.

[SinisterDeath]

Whether or not, we here at DM enjoy FFVI, VII, VIII, IX, XI, or whatever. When it comes to sales,

JRPGS (Aka, Final Fantasy type games) sell far less then games like Oblivion, or 'wow', or any other rpg in the United states.

Quite simply, Ameriacns perfer, games like Neverwinter Nights, Oblivion, Knights of the Old Republic, aka, more open, less linear games. And definately are a Real Time combat, vs a menu styled combat. So what I'm saying is this.

Because JRPGs sell less in america, we will either see, Less JRPGs in america, or we'll see Japan, slowly trying to convert, or establish a middle ground, between JRPGs, and American RPGs.

 

I think FFXII, and FFXIII are shining examples of this slow move towards that style of gameplay...

 

Hell, watch some of the trailers for FFXIII, it looks like an action movie where you select what your character is going to do! Its like a combination of FFX-2, and FFXII. ;)

 

Btw, speaking of FFX-2, While it may have suffered from that overly girly game (Its obvious that Square-Enix Made x-2 for the young female demographic) its over-all story, wasn't to bad, considering. And it at least 'finished' the 'ending' to the orginal FFX, in a way that might be considered, more satisifying.. Assuming you got 100% completion. ;)

But what I'm also trying to say is, that the FFX-2 combat system, (minus the 'clothing' system which is nothing more then a 'JOB' system) was awesome, I wouldn't have mind that combat system, in future FF games. It made the 'real time' Menu turn based combat, actually fun imo.

 

Oh and yes, the 'wardrobe' feature in X-2 was nothing more then a glorified Job System. They had Black Mage, White Mages, And some other fun 'Jobs'. They just didn't call em Jobs. And since I saw that parrallel, I wasn't completely put off by that games 'system' which imo, was better the FFX 'system', and definately better then FFXIIs.

 

Speaking of FFXII, that game played like a tech demo.. It had no real depth to it at all. And their grid system just felt.. Hollow. I'd rather have had there 'grid system' pigeonholed into a specific role, then to have had it so nearly identical to everyone elses.

[Quatilina]

I actually liked the wardrobe/job system in X-2. It was fun to play, at the very least.  ;D To be honest I never thought X-2 was made for the young female graphic. Maybe I'm just too old to comment on that, but most of the female gamers I know would have liked a character like Paine when they were younger. I'm just having a hard time seeing this. Are you saying this because of the form the job system takes?

 

Hmm the comments about twelve make me want to play it. If I remember correctly the original people behind FF are no longer at SE sadly. I haven't paid too much attention to it, but some people swear the series is going under.  ???

[chillimous]

I have but two things to say:

 

Hax: That was my line, i remember saying it to you. In pretty much those exact words...

 

FDM: Well put. Obviously SD knows nothing of the true scope of FFXI if he only played up to the Valkurm Dunes. Having gotten 2 jobs to 75, ravaged endgame and left the game after three years i can agree with all of what you say. However, it DOES consume your soul. :p

[Quatilina]

FDM: Well put. Obviously SD knows nothing of the true scope of FFXI if he only played up to the Valkurm Dunes. Having gotten 2 jobs to 75, ravaged endgame and left the game after three years i can agree with all of what you say. However, it DOES consume your soul. :p

 

One thing you cant deny about FFXI is the sheer difficulty of the game. Over the years the situation has gotten worse. It's very common for someone to get to dunes and quit. It's very common for people to give up BEFORE dunes. This gives the game a bad rep with some cultures.

 

I went back recently and had to solo a WHM to 18 in order to goto Qufim. It got better with all the people in the dunes because of WoTG. However I believe it will just die out again in time. The game is not pulling in enough new players for them to sustain themselves. To make it worse the older players don't usually have jobs in that level range anymore. It takes forever to get anywhere in that game so it is unlikely for a older player to make a new character. FFXI is definitely on the track to the first step of MMORPG death - at least to north american players.

 

Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying its gonna die anytime soon.. just from what I've seen as of late yeah its definitely getting close to sealing the first step towards its demise: the inability to bring in new players.

[Haxorsist]

Ah, of course it was you, Chilli. Strangely, I forgot you played FFXI. I blame the lack of chat.

[SinisterDeath]

Well, you can't deny the success that is wow.

I mean, it appeals to both the 'average' gamer, and the 'hardcore' gamer.

Now, I used to play MMORPGS 6+ hours daily, sometimes as long as 15 hours straight!

Today, I don't have nearly as much time as I used to. I litterally have, 4 hours of TV/Gaming from 6pm to 10pm. ITs not much time, I have an hour here and there, but I havea  maximum potential of '6' hours of 'gaming'. Not nearly as much time as I used to.

Games like EQ, WoW, and FFXI, while they used to appeal to me, given my 'schedule' I just can't justify 'wasting' my life away in that.

Specially now that I have a PS3, PSP, PC, and TV/movise I gotta play/watch.

 

Of the mmorpgs out there, WoW is probably the only one I could justify playing, (Asside from city of heroes, but I can't play that since my campus internet provider, has decided to BLOCK that game...)

At least in wow, I could get to lvl 70, in a reasonable time (which I already did ;)) I could group an instance that takes 30 minutes, or 4 hours. Or even get into raiding.

I'm not sure about you, but can FFXI offer me, lvl 1-60 in 2 weeks of 2-4 hours of game play daily, and 1 hour instances/dungeons/groups?

Last time I played FFXI, I would have said no.

Last time I played Eq, I would have said HELL NO.. :P

 

But like I said, alot of the 'problems' I have with FFXI, also have to do with the problems all MMORPGS face. Asside from those, my main dislike for FFXI, is being apart of the main series 'franchise' instead of a 'spinnoff'. You could call this a form of 'game semantics' But I guess the best way to explain it, would be like if there were a Halo 4, that was an RTS. It should be a spinn off, not a 'main series game'.

[Tenshin_Xo]

What like Halo Wars?  :P

[SinisterDeath]

What like Halo Wars?  :P

 

 

Why not?

 

Anyways, its not like a Halo RTS isn't ripping off Starcraft more then it already is. ;)

[Tenshin_Xo]

Insofar as all Techno RTS are ripped off of Starcraft I'd agree.  A few titles would include C&C and all of it's sequels, Total Annihilation, Warzone, and a few others just like them.  Even it's counterparts which are more 'mystical' (warcraft etc) are nearly identical, substituting mana for electricity.

 

 

Any how, I was pointing out that the Halo Wars game is being considered a spin-off with canonical reference to Halo.  It's being developed by a studio other than Bungie, though the folks at Bungie said that they did verify or retcon any information in the scripts.  Based on the Legendary end of H3, there will likely be a Halo 4, and not to mention the possibility of retconning a Marathon series into the Halo universe.  This would put Halo Wars in a sideline game position much like Metroid Zero Mission. 

[SinisterDeath]

well, you do know warcraft came before starcraft, but I was more or less meaning that halo, ripped off starcraft ALOT (Even if its not a RTS)

 

Just compare the Starcraft Marine to Halo's Sparatans, Zerg vs Flood.

There are so ripp offs. Hell, theres even some ripp off to Starship Troopers! ;)

Ironically, WoW, Has many, many starcraft refrences, in-so-far as warcraft & starcraft universes = the same, just different part of the universe, via evidence of various 'bug' things seen in starcraft in wow, as well as the very solid starship troopers refrences.

Though, I still don't know if Blizzard never releasing Starcraft: Ghost was a good thing, or a bad thing. ;)

 

But yea, I hope you can at least understand my sentiment about not liking a game, that shared no real gameplay similarties, sharing the same franchise name (FF1-13, Halo 1-3) and instead using a spin-off name, (World of Warcraft, instead of warcraft 4, Halo wars instead of Halo 4, final fantasy: tactics, instead of Final Fantasy 9, or even Starcraft Ghost, instead of Starcraft 2. "Though, isn't starcraft ghost, canned, and we now get to look forward to starcraft 2? Anyone else feel like blizzards been working on Starcraft 2 this entire time, and just used Ghost as a ploy to make us look away from a sequal?")