Ages & rulers

[Guest leebarr]

Ok after the last battle Mat will became Tuon's warder which will give him alonger life. With help from one power Perrin will have a long life. Then being AS make you live longer. So Perrin will rule half the bordorlands for about a 100 years. Matt will be the king of Seacan for about the same. Nyn will rule the orther half of borderlands about 300 years and elyane about the same with andor with ewgene as armlyin of the white tower for 300 years. So is this fair for the common people in these land

[rck]

First off, Nynaeve won't rule any Nations because Lan's claims were to the throne of Malkier, which is now dead, not Shienar or Arafel. Second, even if both Tuon and Mat survive, and even if Tuon were able to reunite all Seanchan, Mat would still only be her consort and not an equal.  Thirdly, who's to say who will survive and who won't survive the last battle. 

[Theandrin]

I must have missed a line somewhere, where does it give any hint that Mat will become Tuon's warder? Also, how will the one power make Perrin survive longer?

 

Forgive me, but I don't quite know where you got these ideas.

[algspkr]

I agree with the sentiment of the original respondants, but let me have a crack too.

Ok after the last battle Mat will became Tuon's warder which will give him alonger life.

I doubt that Tuon will ever have a warder, she does not approve of chosing to channel.  On top of which I am prety certain that there is an RJ quote stating that warders remain strong and healthy until the end, but that the bond does not increase their life span.

With help from one power Perrin will have a long life.

This may happen as it was done in the AoL.

Then being AS make you live longer.

It is the ability to channel not being AS.

So Perrin will rule half the bordorlands for about a 100 years.

Perrin may have some claim to Saldea, and if he remains ta'varen until Tenobia, Bashere and Falie die he may end up saddled with it, but he does not want it.  In fact I would not be surprised to see a fight between him and Falie over her concealment of how close to the crown she is in AMoL.

 

Perrin has no claim on the other three quarters of the border lands, nor do I see him attempting to conquer them.

Matt will be the king of Seacan for about the same.

Thanks to Mat's marrige to Tuon he may have some claim to the Crystal Throne if she dies, especially if it is before she has any children, but as Mat sees the Seanchan as his enemy I do not see him seeking the throne.

Nyn will rule the orther half of borderlands about 300 years

Nynaeve may have some claim to the nonexistant throne of Malikier, but not to any other part of the borderlands.  She will out live Lan and I could see her accepting the crown if Malikier is reborn aftert the Last Battle.

 

Nynaeve is also likey to retire from being Aes Sedai around the age of 250, which may give her a life span of 6-800 years.

and elyane about the same with andor

Except that like Nynaeve she is likely to live much longer than the number you provided, assuming Andor survives the Seanchan and Trollocs you are correct.

with ewgene as armlyin of the white tower for 300 years.

I believe that Egwene will retire to extend her life after about 250.

So is this fair for the common people in these land

 

It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.

 

[Davian93]

I like speculation without any basis at all from the books.

[Guest leebarr]

Let me explain how i come up with this and it's from the books.

 

Elanye and Ewgene are self explained.

 

Bashere and the queen of Saldaia (mispeled) may not make it too or to the end of the last battle. Leaving Faile and Perrin king and queen. There is no reason perrin should not be named marshall-genral. give him much power.

 

It is said in the later books can not think of which one but the blight is in retreat. after the last battle there is no reason that Makiea (Lan's birth place) is not reborn. nyn being the bully she is Lan will be the crown king instead of the uncrowned king.

 

Tuon is the queen of seacan with her mother dead and the whole court gone as well.. Mat already has an army behide him and there is no reason he will not be the marshal-genral of that army being Tuon's husband. 

 

Nicole had a forteling saying the last battle over but the world not done with battle. So why can not the borderlands be divied in two. and Tuon could meet Ewgene in Tar valon and be talked around so way not

[Guest cw]

You do realize that marrying the ruler of a country does not make you the ruler, or even give you any claim to the position?  Monarchy is monarchy, whether it is here or in The Wheel of time.  Why do you think Prince Philip, for all his years married to Queen Elizabeth, was never King Philip.  Doing as Taringail Damodred intended in Andor is called usurpation.

 

Nynaeve does not have, nor will she ever have, a claim to the lost throne of Malkier.

 

The same holds for Mat and the Crystal Throne and Perrin and Saldea.  While they could get appointed to positions of authority like Marshall General, they would never be in a position to rule.

[aevogt]

It depends on the nature of the Monarchy, there have been reigning kings and queens of the same country at the same time.  There's a horrible film about the fall of Jerusalem that is very loosely based on the events that took place in 1187.  The king, Guy, was in truth made king consort by right of his marriage to the queen and therefore, he was absolute ruler - King.  He was also a complete bas*ard who killed christians and muslims alike with equal fervor.  Usually from ambush.

 

Chock that one up to the curse of a classical liberal arts education for which I paid too much and received too little.  If there has been another example I never heard of it.  Maybe east of the Urals about which I know little.

 

Although, when there is a monarch present, most of Randland seems to be an absolute monarchy so neither Mat, Perrin nor Nynaeve would have any claims based on their marriages.  Elayne has claim to the throne of Cairhein.

 

[Thorum]

In Belgium, we've got one king and two queens. Not that the queens do more than cost a lot of money, but they do have the title. (the second is the widow of our previous king).

[Majsju]

In Denmark, the oldest monarchy in the world, a man marrying the queen becomes prince. A woman marrying the king becomes queen. Same thing in Sweden, another old monarchy. This is the most common practice.

[Darth_Andrea]

First off, Nynaeve won't rule any Nations because Lan's claims were to the throne of Malkier, which is now dead, not Shienar or Arafel. Second, even if both Tuon and Mat survive, and even if Tuon were able to reunite all Seanchan, Mat would still only be her consort and not an equal.  Thirdly, who's to say who will survive and who won't survive the last battle.   

 

We know that at least Matt and Tuon will survive. RJ said that one of the outrigger novels he was planning was about Matt and Tuon about 10 years after TG, I'm assuming it would be about them rebuilding the Seanchan empire I don't think that was ever specificaly stated by RJ though so it's just a assumption.

 

 

[glow=green,1,500]Darth_Andrea[/glow]   

[Mr Ares]

In the UK, a Queen's consort is not entitled to any title, except those specifically granted by the monarch. Regardless, even if Perrin is given a title of King consort, even if there is actual power associated with the postition he will hold the position only while Faile is Queen (probably). If she dies, the next in line takes over, and that isn't Perrin. And of course the suggestion that there is "no reason" for Malkier not to return, or for Mat and Perrin to be given powerful positions and titles like Marshall-General is absurd. There are several reasons. Tuon and Faile not wishing to give that power to their husbands, them needing to give important positions like Marshall-General to people to buy their support (it's called politics), Mat and Perrin not wanting the job, etc. Malkier not being resurrected also has a lot of reasons against it. For example, all the Malkieri dead, an already small population that has just been reduced by warfare not wanting to spread to that particular area, when there is ample space in the rest of the West to expand into, the possibility (that RAW is fond of pointing out and which we can't ignore) that the continents may be rearranged, like the Breaking, so that no-one even knows where Malkier is, or maybe no an be bothered to go around bringing back old countries when they would be better served rebuliding there own.

 

You do like using this, don't you.

[Guest cw]

Correct.  I suspect that "Prince of Ravens" probably does carry some inherent rights and responsibilities though.

 

By the way, in case it wasn't clear, I was not advocating that Perrin will be Marshall General.  It was just a convenient example of a position he could be appointed to.  My whole point was that none of them would have any authority beyond what is bestowed upon them by the lawful Ruler.

[Mr Ares]

Correct.  I suspect that "Prince of Ravens" probably does carry some inherent rights and responsibilities though.

 

By the way, in case it wasn't clear, I was not advocating that Perrin will be Marshall General.  It was just a convenient example of a position he could be appointed to.  My whole point was that none of them would have any authority beyond what is bestowed upon them by the lawful Ruler.

My use of Marshall-General was in response to leebar's suggestion in the post above your initial one in this thread that there was "no reason" Mat and Perrin should not get those positions, in case I wasn't clear.

[Majsju]

Well, in Mats case there is a bloody good reason why he should be commander of the Seanchan army. He is after all the best general alive.

If he is allowed to keep the memories after rescuing Moiraine, that is.

But it is his skills that would warrant the command, not leeching off his wife.

[algspkr]

Now that I think about it Mat could become Emporer should Tuon die, as unless I am mistaken the Emporess picks her heir, not unheard of in real life even if I can't think of where it was done.  That said I do not see Tuon ever naming Mat as her heir, especially given his the empire is my enemy comment.

[Guest cw]

There are restrictions to who may be chosen.  For one, it must be from the immediate royal family.  As such, it isn't that much different from other monarchies.  The only real difference is that, rather than going to the eldest, the reigning emperror/emperress can choose between all of her children.  While you can argue that Mat is a member of the immediate royal family be marriage, I really don't see them accepting him as far as allowing him to be chosen as heir.  He isn't even of the Blood, let alone the High Blood, and he is not descended, that from Hawkwing.